Need Opinions on Propane Powered Grumman Step Van

[nutsandvolts]

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[TylerDurden]

I don't think propane is cheaper than RUG anymore, but it should burn cleaner. The van should last a long time with a sixCyl, if it has been cared for.

[liveforphysics]

One of my road racing cars is dual fueled. By opening the tank valve, and turning a switch, it goes from a fuel injected gasoline engine to a propane vapor burning engine from an IMPCO 425A mixer and liquid/gas converter. You don't get quite the power with propane, but it has a crazy high octane rating of 118, so you run very high compression to help improve fuel economy and make up for the loss in performance.

Another friend runs a very high boost turbo charged subaru justy that runs on propane. That car is damn fast with 25psi of boost! Very funny to see a little Justy smokeing other cars.

Both of us always use "farm grade" propane. That means you must remove your tank from your vehicle and bring it inside. What is the difference between farm grade and other propane? Farm grade is missing the road tax I pay between $1.35 to $1.60/gal, and it used to be $0.89/gal which was what first inspired me to do the conversion while I was a broke college student.

Propane engines last forever. The oil always looks brand new, the plugs always look brand new, and as long as you provide strong spark to get the tough to light propane mixtures lit well, it runs like a champ.

My $0.02

Best Wishes,
-Luke

[dnmun]

how corroded is corroded? my ancient '84 honda wagon was originally from detroit, the top looks normal but the entire lower side is all rust. cannot jack the car up using the body, have to find metal suspension components for the jack or it goes right through the body, i have pushed the floor seams apart with heavy loads inside, but i would not trade it for anything that weighs more than the 2k lbs it weighs, 35mpg, big enuff to camp and haul the cats cross country and 4x8 sheets of plywood and sheetrock on top and huge loads inside.

avoid the grumman imo, but it should be dual fuel, not just propane.

wait for RVs to drop so cheap they give them away so they can get the driveway back, if you want a camper.

[nutsandvolts]

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[dnmun]

too big, imo, that is my hangup on big vehicles. i had some friends who lived in a big grumman van like that, with wood stove too. they are big for californians who go live in the rural beach areas of mexico too.

for me the rust is a problem because my fenders flop around on the bottom, hehe. gotta hold them on with sheet metal screws since the welds have all corroded away. waiting for the whole thing to just collapse on the suspension while i am driving, at least it is front wheel drive so the driveshaft won't be flopping around inside when it goes. love my honda wagon, a truck of a car.

that grumman should be dual fuel though, not straight propane or it is really hard to start. expect 6-8mpg.

[dogman]

What are you needing for the job? Just to get yourself there and some tools, or do you need to haul huge stuff? Propane or not, pushing a house size vehicle around is gonna cost you a lot. My 1989 double cab one ton truck is wonderfull when I need it, but at $1.00 per mile it has not been something you want to drive around in unless actually hauling one ton of something. A long bed regular cab or a short bed long cab small pickup might be a good way to go if you have just medium size cargo to haul. The ford ranger is of course, the most popular vehicle to convert to electric since a battery pack fits nice under the truckbed.

As an RV though, a grumman body van is a nice starting point if that is your main interest. But forget driving it daily unless the boss pays for all the expense. But older vehicles get expensive. Most of that dollar a mile for my one ton has been the need for a $500 repair just about every thousand miles.

[Lapwing]

If the Grumman is anything like my Landrover series 3 was, the chassis is steel. Get a good look under for past welding, and rust. The body may be good looking but the steel frame may be shot. Lot of DMV's don't allow welding on the frame.

I work out of my Prius, doing marine electrical work, and IMHO this is the way to go. I make money charging the IRS rate, and can afford to go look free.

I have a 1400lb max total flatbed 5x10 trailer for hauling batteries etc., but that stays home 98 out of 100 days. Before the trailer I had a pair of Yakima roof poles for long stuff. I even moved a 48ft mast 5 miles on the Jetta's rack.

Can you say organised. By wife used to be affectionally called the "bag lady". Now I'm the bag boy! I have way more duffel bags and soft tool bags than you would believe. I hump in the bags I need for the day. Hump the others into the shop for the next time. Very rarely do I have to compromise. I use the front seat the back seet and the trunk all.

Good luck.

[TylerDurden]

My buddy finished law-school living in a Grumman.

A big van can be pretty handy.

Even my VW camper can get 4x8 sheetstock or 12' linear lumber totally inside... sure nice when it's raining.

Travel?... zero hotel costs.

'Moonlight' as a mover, no prob.

Propane fueled... excellent: tap-off for heat, fridge, generator.

6cyl is good on gas, especially if you drive slow: my 4cyl van gets 23mpg (city or highway... the drag losses offset the gains from not shifting ), my 35' 7.3L boxtruck gets 11.5mpg C/H the same way.

"Front suspension, tie rods, and other misc work done in October 2008." Tis good. Prop-trucks lead a pretty easy life too.

Ain't no Prius, tho.

[nutsandvolts]

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[Lapwing]

I'll be servicing computers not hauling furniture hehe but ... truth is I don't want a "vehicle" at all, but if I'm going to have one, I'd like it to be a utility vehicle, just as my bike is a utility bike. What I like about the van is the possibilities of what it could be. It could eventually be great for parking on a seasonal camping site. It's probably too big to be practical for now but I plan on looking at it anyways. I've never been very practical with vehicles. Mostly I've driven sports cars, talk about lack of space for cargo and lack of utility. As for vehicle expenses, they're paying me flat allowance of $400 per month plus 21 cents per kilometer!

Been there. I blush red to think of the 14 years of money wasted on gas, instead of travel, or tools.

Get the Prius. I'm 6' and I can sleep in the back if I try though the Subaru is better for two.
No bias here!

[nutsandvolts]

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[spinningmagnets]

If you get a VW diesel (Jetta/Golf) change the timing belt soon, even sooner than the manual suggests. Make sure to use a quality belt.

Half the engines on the road are non-interference fit, and a broken belt leads to a couple valves stuck open as the crank spins a couple times before stopping, but nothing hits anything else. High-compression gasoline engines, and almost ALL diesels are interference.

If the timing belt breaks, its hugely expensive. At a minimum, you need a new head and the pistons that hit.

[TylerDurden]

what if I ran it on vegetable oil? What then? Cars are just a pita. I wish I didn't need one.

Cars suck. But that's a good car to convert to WVO.

+1 on the timing belt. Get the VW tools & a dial gage to keep the pump-timing on.

1.6L... simplest 4cyl motor I ever owned: no ignition system, no computer, no fancy timed injection. Not quick, but reliable. (Get a block heater for Canada winter.)

58mpg seems optimistic (~45-50mpg is typical), check the records.

[dogman]

Yeah, get the van if you want to for a house, but to run around servicing computers some kind of hatchback economy car is the way to go. Jetta, Geo, Hundai, Honda, whatever. Even my wifes ford focus wouldn't be so bad a choice. I was sure Tyler or Oatnet would mention the really good choice for a economical truck, the VW van . I used to haul a cord of firewood everyday in a 72 VW van back in the last big recession in 82. Other minivans can be just as nice as the VW's to work out of, and use for a motel room as needed. I even had an aerostar van that was a 4x4, great for the beaches at the lake, and camping up nasty forest roads. But all the minivans are a real PITA to wrench on. I got in the habit of just dumping em when they broke something more than a CV axle or brakes.

Now I like my Subaru Forester a lot. It can carry 8 foot lumber or pipe inside, I can just sleep in it, and bigger stuff can carry on the roof. It can haul a small trailer if I need to, and is the easiest car to wrench on I ever owned, including VW vans and bugs. It gets 25 mpg, at 70 mph with the ac on ,and has all wheel drive. Not quite a truck, but better than most cars, and can haul anything up to 1000 pounds. No 4x8 plywood though, with the right straps I could carry a sheet on the roof, but not at highway speed. A cordless saw would be a better solution, and make the cuts in the parking lot.

If you don't actually carry around computers and printers you could work out of an ICE scooter with some good saddlebags. Here in my town, one of the other electric bike riders does carry computers and printers around town in a trailer behind his electric bike. Most of his buisness is within a 10 mile circle of his house.

[spinningmagnets]

If you think you'll end up living in a van (don't laugh) a tall van like the Grumman would be so much nicer than a car/short-van. Stretch out to sleep, and stand up to change clothes. If you think you'll have a small economy car as a second vehicle, I'd advise you to get a manual transmission. They can be towed very easily with all 4 wheels on the ground with a bumper tow-bar. You can verify this at retiree RV-life websites.

If you get an Ice-scooter I'd recommend a 150cc with cast wheels (no spokes and uses flat-resistant tubeless tires) and also get double disc brakes. The taller 16" wheels handle much better than the smaller ones. When the engine finally wears out, it makes a great candidate for an electric conversion. IMHO, these features are very much worth the extra price.

[nutsandvolts]

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[dogman]

Actually, you aren't helping any car company when you buy used anyway. So what does it matter what brand. My subaru isn't so sporty, but I put it to the test once, and was doing 100 mph with the cruise controll on That thing is happiest at about 85mph, but then you only get about 23 mpg. No gm car I ever owned would do more than 80 on cruise controll. Around town, I stick to about 60 mph and get 27 mpg. That is, when I drive at all.