What about an Endless-sphere wiki?

[TylerDurden]

Watts are the ultimate determinate of range, then you have to calculate aerodynamic and inefficiency loss into the equation.
The best test is a real world test.

Voltage does directly effect top speed, however the faster you go, the more amps you need to sustain high speeds, so a super high voltage with a meager level of amps will get you a low speed.

In layman's terms, volts are like horsepower and amps are like torque. An engine needs a good balance of both to perform well.

And every motor will go a different speed given a different level of voltage. My old geared hub motor would do 18mph max on 36 volts.. my new, and much larger geared motor will do ~28mph max on the same voltage, but it requires more amps to do the same job.

Why dumb it down, when you can just make it wrong.

[auraslip]

Luke is right, it needs to build from simple basics, into more specifics, and end with the real technobabble but if you hit newbs with coulombs calculations, you loose...

That's what I've "tried" to do on my site. Start from the left with the bike builds to see what's possible, then see what options for kits and parts are out there, then check out what it takes to put it together, and THEN the technobabble.
Of course, I feel it lacks depth, but I'm terrified of getting the details wrong, so I'm abstaining from the real technobabble for now.

Honestly, 99% of people that post with the "what kit" or "what battery" questions, will only get a couple answers here. It's easy enough to answer them in advanced. I think I've done a decent job of it, and I'm willing to turn some of the pages into a faq if ya'll see fit.

OTOH, a lot of those answers change quickly and often. So perhaps a decent, albeit shallow, understanding of the basics would be more important than "what to buy."

Also, I would not want to be the one writing a lipo FAQ, because JESUS where do you start? How to be your own BMS with out destroying the batteries? How to turn a meanwell into a charger? How to solder bullets? So much info in there... you could really do a whole site just devoted to using lipo on ebikes for newbs.

hat's why i am kinda using a battering ram on you guys to motivate you to do it

Dude, just do it. No one else will. No one will stop you. Worse case scenario is people will just tell you why you're wrong and then you can fix the mistakes. Even if it doesn't get stickeid, it'll still be seen by thousands of people.

[neptronix]

Why dumb it down, when you can just make it wrong.

Wow, you've brought that up twice now in and i will state again that i admitted i was wrong and learned from my error in that thread.

But why correct someone when you can just sit back and criticize their character.... as you have done every time i have tried to:

1. advocate for a faq
2. try to write faq
3. speak of a faq
4. mention that the search system is not an entirely adequate way to learn everything you need.

Anyhow, you may have been here longer.. and you may know more than me.. but i am no longer interested in your feedback. Thank you

[TylerDurden]

Wow, you've brought that up twice now in and i will state again that i admitted i was wrong and learned from my error in that thread.

But why correct someone when you can just sit back and criticize their character.... as you have done every time i have tried to:

1. advocate for a faq
2. try to write faq
3. speak of a faq
4. mention that the search system is not an entirely adequate way to learn everything you need.

Anyhow, you may have been here longer.. and you may know more than me.. but i am no longer interested in your feedback. Thank you

You are doing the best job so far, of demonstrating that the most vocal advocates for FAQs and Wiki are the most likely to fill it with FUD.

Apologies do not correct misinformation. We are not here to polish your turds.

:yawn: I must have been dreaming....

Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:16 pm

Location: Beaverton, OR
I am pretty much against wikis as people rarely use them. They work great in situations where you have an amazing amount of information in one place ( wikipedia ) but all of the ones i have seen get neglected and collect dust.
The lack of a nice structured index is usually what makes them less useable in a setting where you don't have crazy amounts of information. I think there is a way to make a good index but i have never seen anyone actually set it up that way.

Every message board i've been on except this one has FAQs so i don't see why us having some is a problem. It's funny how much resistance i have seen. Consolidation is the way to go, and making the metric shit-ton of information on this board easier to digest will really help things. I spend a lot of time helping out the newbies as i was one too and found this board very intimidating.

And such fine help it is.

[neptronix]

You done yet Tyler, or do you have more?
Get it out of your system so we can go back to talking like mature adults.

[TylerDurden]

You done yet Tyler, or do you have more?

All that mechanical friction from the brushes = major heat. Those suckers are basically getting grinded down constantly.

[RWP]

First let me say that ES has changed my life for the better. That's a very good thing, at least from my perspective. I am grateful.

So my comments below are because I care. I think I am a more or less typical user here in that I have some good skills and lack others. I am happy to share my skills and info. The area where I lack skills seems to be the area where many of us are also struggling, namely the electronic parts. I have not done very much mechanical design or fabrication so I often don't have that much to add - in spite of the way my projects look - I struggle mightily to find ways to make stuff. The areas where I have sills - using my hands and a good eye - don't seem to be easily offered in posts, so I don't post that much. But I do like to help, it's part of my nature, and like many of us here I think, it makes me feel good to contribute.

That said:
I would love a wiki or something that would order the enormous amounts of info here at ES.
I find it very difficult to find stuff I know is here. If I remember, I create bookmarks and edit the name so I know what I saved. It's a PITA.
I find the search offered by phpBB to be sub par. I have done a lot of Web research on many subjects and I know a good search tool from a crappy one and I think phpBB is crappy in this respect.
I am starting to use the site less because it's so hard to find stuff in 100+ page threads!!!!!!
Media Wiki and some kind of bridge probably would work just fine.
I would contribute to the info base as I am able.

Maybe ES has run it's course...most things have a life span...maybe the site in experiencing a lull...maybe the site is past it's prime...maybe the focus is changing...maybe it's all OK...

Roy

[jonathanm]

The scores at the end of the first quarter.....

For Wiki - 6
----------------------------------------------------
Me, would like to see a wiki and would help;
Metallover wants wiki, will help
Philistine thinks wiki is a great idea, didn't say if he would contribute
LiveForPhysics likes a wiki and would edit, review and possibly write some stuff.
Katou thinks its idiotic not to have one and will start writing today if he knows its gonna stay
RWP would love a wiki and would contribute

Against Wiki -1
-----------------------------------------------------
TylerDurden thinks we're all idiots, especially Neptronix, and is gonna tell us every few posts.


On The Fence - 5
-------------------------------------------------------
Neptronix doesnt like the wiki idea but likes faq knowledgebase. said he wouldn't help, but would help
Auraslip has his own material already, so would possibly contribute.
Amberwolf thinks wiki good idea as long as its a part of ES.
Fechter agrees in knowledgebase but not wiki for technical reasons unknown.
Ypedal is working on his own faq, admits its hard find time but hasnt said if he likes the wiki idea

[Tiberius]

The scores at the end of the first quarter.....

I would like to see something, whether it's a wiki, a better search, or whatever. I see the same questions coming up every year, and the people who previously put a lot of effort into dealing with them can't be bothered to go through it all again. So clearly information is being lost, or at least not being found when needed.

If there were something, then I would contribute/edit, etc. But only if...

It was easy for me to do so.
It could be done as short articles as well as long ones, so it can be done in half hour chunks rather than half days.
I thought it was going to last and be used.
It was set out so it was easy to find info.
It was easy to correct someone else's errors.
It didn't get into controversy or arguments.

Hmm, putting those last two sentences next to each other shows us one of the problems.

Nick

[Ypedal]

an FAQ will never be a complete " Learn Everything You Ever Needed to Know " in one page thing.. ever..

If it was, it would be 100 pages long and mind numbing to read... hell.. i've been building ebikes for 6 years and i still don't know it all, and i don't need to know it all either..

Personally, i think the FAQ can be as it's happening now as a sticky in each section , relevant to that section of the forum, splits things up in managable chunks, and allows readers to digest information a segment at a time.

the stickies need to cover basic information, the stuff that allows readers to understand our long discussions within the threads in the forum below them.. that's all they need to do, the rest is waht the forum is all about, entertaining stories from newcommers and experiences from newbs and veterans alike.. just fun reading..

If the FAQ covered everything, we would have nothing to talk about on a daily basis.. booooooring..

[TylerDurden]

Perhaps FAQ topics should be guru-only areas.

omg... Ypedal, I love how the guys trying to write-in on the FAQ are just further spreading bad info...

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=26621&p=413926#p413926

[katou]

Presumably, the error that I made will be pointed out, and I will correct it. Did you like the rest of it though?

Even with a mistake in it, what I wrote has some value. If we wait for the guru's to write FAQ's, we will be waiting forever. It would be AWESOME if that happened, I just know how busy life gets.

GGoodrum's Care and Feeding of A123's thread is a gold standard exception of course, as a few others.

Too few authors means slow work, but good quality. Too many means mistakes. Clearly (to me anyway) LFP's idea of using guru's to check over information is the way to go. That way we leverage the knowledge base, but reduce the time required.

Katou

[Ypedal]

It's more than just what is written, it's about how it's written.. needs to be to the point, accurate and easy to understand.. please don't take offence to this but, katou, what you write is not within those guidelines !! and it's not just a matter editing what you wrote, it needs to be written completely differently..

[TylerDurden]

Presumably, the error that I made will be pointed out, and I will correct it. Did you like the rest of it though?

Even with a mistake in it, what I wrote has some value. If we wait for the guru's to write FAQ's, we will be waiting forever. It would be AWESOME if that happened, I just know how busy life gets.

GGoodrum's Care and Feeding of A123's thread is a gold standard exception of course, as a few others.

Too few authors means slow work, but good quality. Too many means mistakes. Clearly (to me anyway) LFP's idea of using guru's to check over information is the way to go. That way we leverage the knowledge base, but reduce the time required.

Katou

It should be split-off and linked-to, as it is too detailed for FAQ.

Good writing takes time.
Fixing bad writing takes more time.
Fixing bad info and bad writing is worse than no writing in the first place, since many will have been misinformed in the process.

[Thud]

I'll chime in with a couple observations.

I am allways amazed at the information discovery in "Tangental Conversation" in the various threads...usualy off-topic & topics worthy on their own merits. Its the free thoughts of the truly educated just having a friendy chat about something that is interesting in addition to their own expertise.

The rub? it is that information that is nearly impossible to expose with a simple search.
Examples:

LFP shares a Lot of theroy in this insperational thread
viewtopic.php?f=30&t=14134&hilit=DIY+motors+7+sensorless+controllers

Bigmoose,Jeremy Harris,gwhy & others cover the whole spectrum on controllers & motor theroy also:
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=18578&hilit=ohio+race&start=105

As much as I treat the forum as an academic resource, it is still at best, a public forum with all the color & flavor that comes with it. Often it spurs me on to research further to confim or qualify whats being said here.

No Wiki or really well constructed FAQ page....will ever stop some "Innocent" from asking:
"whats the best motor for my bike?"

I been around a couple years now & I still contemplate what IS the best motor for my bike!

The best advice I can give anyone? "Never get all your information from a single source"

[jonathanm]

I agree with the "no single source" concept. I don't think anyone who would like to see a knowledgebase expects it to be the definitive, "don't waste yer time reading anything else" kind of resource.

Wiki's are good for facts......Articles are good for informed opinion. Forums are good for discussion, debate, and other banter. FAQ's are good for....well, FAQ's. Horses and Courses.

eg I wouldn't want to see a "how to choose the best motor" in a wiki...would make a good article though. In a wiki I *would* like to see a Crystalyte page with a list of all the motors available or previously available, comarisons, specs, some pictures, known issues, links to articles and discussions on them.

If a wiki is done like this then you don't have to be such a great writer or an expert on the subject matter...you just need to be good at researching and compiling info and data....or trawling for photos, etc.

Not to say you couldn't *store* articles and FAQs in the wiki structure, making them easy to search, find etc.

[Tiberius]

Maybe it's just a question of indexing.

If the search worked better, or people were better at using it, then most of the problem would go away. Peeps would be able to find a stack of info on whatever subject; they could then work out what to use and what to dismiss.

At the moment it's people like TD and Miles who are acting as the search and index by posting links to past threads when a topic gets repeated.

Nick

[jonathanm]

I saw a wiki on another site recently (can't remember where) that had been constructed out of forum posts (ie without any additional software, scripting, or any need to fart about with user tables, permissions etc) - That could work here, I would think.

Anyway - I have been compiling the most useful posts I have come across, but going back more than a few months - a year or so is difficult.

If anyone has their own set of bookmarks and useful posts from before that time, and would like to share them with me, that would be extremely cool. Whether I do anything useful with them remains to be seen, but I intend to if at all possible.

For example, right now I have read in a few places about a 20 page thread on shunt soldering, which I can't find. Also I would like to find posts that directly compare more than two hub motors, with some actual testing if possible.

Cheers,

J

[fechter]

Unfortunately, the phpbb software does not make it easy to pick individual posts and copy/move them. You can copy/move a whole topic thread, but weeding out the useless posts is extremely time consuming.

Using google search tends to work much better than the forum's built in search function. It also allows you to do image search.

[auraslip]

ES image search is the sauce

[heathyoung]

Only if half or more of the images weren't corrupted

[HAROX]

Been tried a couple of times.

The folks who have the most knowledge have the least time. The folks with the most time have the least knowledge.

Bad enough that noobs are trying to write FAQs.

We who study the forum are valuable. I really gain a larger impression of what it takes to get the job done, the job being, to build a well balanced machine.
It takes a reasonably well balanced person to edit this information, and, an extremely well balanced person to conduct the testing in the first place. I don't expect I'm either.

[SamSpeed]

This be a great idea. There is a wealth of great information here but it is not organized. There is also some not so good information, and lots of opinion -- and even more questions asked over and over.

I'm a bit of a Wikipedian. My first edit was years ago when I spotted a hilariously ambiguous sentence. The meaning was clear from context so I got bold and just made the obvious edit. One does not have to be a subject matter expert. One don't even need no grammar or writing skills. The idea is that little by little, edit by edit the wiki gets better and better. The key is participation. One could fill in a section, or create a page just by finding worthy posts, summarizing and providing good links. If your work is not quite right or incomplete, have faith that eventually someone will come along behind and make it better.

One important wiki feature is the powerful Undo ability. Nothing can be done that can't be undone. Armed with that, folks should go forth boldly and just edit. Yes, Wikipedia has it's share of vandalism and what are called Edit Wars. But over time, resolution of these issues has just made Wikipedia stronger. It's an evolutionary process.

I just spotted the ES Wiki last nite and already made a couple contributions.