This man may change the world Andrea Rossi & eCat

[Drunkskunk]

I call BS. His demonstrations look more like a steam punk themed Magician's tricks, with out the scantily clad assistants. I'd be more impressed if he wore a tophat and waved a wand.

Lets ignore the fact that he's been to prison for fraud in the past, or that this is his M.O., The science just isn't there. But the skill of the trick is interesting.
Essentualy, Like any good Magician, he gives you a story, filled with terms you don't fully understand, but with a remarkable and clever outcome (In a far away land ancient monks knew the secret of...) . he then shows you a device, that he demonstrates some of basic parts of. ( Just an ordinary box, nothing remarkable about it at all, but Observe!...) He's very good at showing slightly more than your attention span wants to see, and giving you an information overload so that you don't notice what he didn't show you. (You know, he never showed the bottom of the box, and it never came of that funny table... ) He then preforms his Trick, and you see exactly what he described you would see. Humble beginings, with dramatic and supprising results that exceed your expectations. And then like any good street preformer, he doesn't ask for money, but he lets you know that he appriciates it as the hat is passed around. ( The investors have been most gracous, thank you, thank you.. )

Proving him a fraud would be difficult based on the information available, but recreating his demonstration wouldn't be, if examined like a magic trick.

An interesting article from someone in his field who met with Rossi: http://blog.newenergytimes.com/2011/10/30/noble-aspirations-are-not-enough/

[Gordo]

"An interesting article from someone in his field who met with Rossi: http://blog.newenergytimes.com/2011/10/ ... ot-enough/"

This is also precisely my take on the stunt. A pre-heated tea kettle.!

[Hillhater]

...This is also precisely my take on the stunt. A pre-heated tea kettle.!

you are going to need a BIG kettle ...

...Measured by the customer: 66 kWh in during startup,
2635 kWh out *during self sustaining operation* 12:30 to 18:00.
COP calculated by the test engineer of > 2635 :0

[Joseph C.]

Mr. Krivit isn't coming out of this too well.

If it is a fraud - we will eventually find out. If it isn't, he just lost his credibility by personalising the issue.

Let Rossi say and do what he likes, time will reveal all anyway.

[Hillhater]

Rebuttal to Krivit's Accusation that Andrea Rossi is a Fraudster
http://pesn.com/2011/10/30/9501941_Rebu ... Fraudster/

So the 500kW generator was still hooked to the "reactor" that was producing... 470kW. This doesn't smell very good.

^^^ Ditto !
someone has to ask ..
why was a "500kW" generator required when only 66kw/hr was used to "start" the process ?
Why was it running throughout the "self sustaining" part of the test ( 6hrs ?)
Why was the full 1MW output not tested ?

I am sure there are good explanations for these questions, but they do need to be clarified.

Further, i am very surprised that the "Customer" accepted ( apparently) the unit even though it failed to meet 50% of its claimed output.
At the very least i would have expected a re-test prior to final buy off.

[liveforphysics]

why was a "500kW" generator required when only 66kw/hr was used to "start" the process ?

Because it has no output and is a scam.

Why was it running throughout the "self sustaining" part of the test ( 6hrs ?)

Because it has no output and is a scam.

Why was the full 1MW output not tested ?

Because it has no output and is a scam.

[Gordo]

LUKE IS Clairvoyant!

[AussieJester]

I have a sneaking suspicion, Luke thinks this Rossi character is a scammer

KiM

[liveforphysics]

I have a sneaking suspicion, Luke thinks this Rossi character is a scammer

KiM

I had wanted to believe very badly. But EVERYTHING points straight to scam. Every time somebody gives him a chance to prove anything is happening, it doesn't work, or he does a "test" in some absurd manor that doesn't prove anything.

If he had something, anything at all that made any useful energy at all, he would let it be shown (not hard to do). Instead, he intentionally avoids that from ever happening, and comes up with more and more absurd things to try to get money from suckers.

[Dee Jay]

I have a sneaking suspicion, Luke thinks this Rossi character is a scammer

KiM

gee... you think?

[Hillhater]

I too REALLY want this to be genuine ..but.
.. the whole thing is too F'.ing amateurish to be true !
If it were real, it would be the equivalent of turning turds into gold and anyone with any access to this would be crapping bricks and hiring the biggest security team ever seen to protect it and Rossi.
The Italian government ( who are in deep financial do do ) would have jumped onto this and locked out any possibility of it ever leaving the country ...( there are a lot of very smart engineers in Italy) .. because it would solve all Italy's, Europes, and the Worlds energy and financial issues .... overnight !
.. But no, ..its just a minor online story that keeps bumbling along !!

[oldpiper]

One thing you all ought to do is look at the websites which are promoting this.

<WARNING: run-on sentence ahead> PESWiki pushes "Brown's gas" and antigravity stuff, among others, they quote the "New Energy Congress" a lot, which points back to (guess who) PESWiki, there are no established scientists, as far as I can tell, no scientists at all anywhere near any of these stories, one of the funny things is that they have one "cold fusion expert" calling the other "cold fusion expert" (Rossi) a fraud, and they are siding with Rossi, calling the other guy unfair and complaining that he didn't have anything nice to say about Rossi, concluding that he was "prejudiced," there are implications of the "big government coverup," one or two articles about someone being "threatened" and destroying his data to keep his family safe, and many of the articles which they have published or refer to from other sites are several years old - if ANY of these discoveries were true, the world would be a much different place today. E.T. (Paul? Don't rent that movie, it's completely lame, not even worth the buck to get it from Redbox) told me so on my last trip to Roswell, so it's gotta be the truth.

Cameron

[bigmoose]

This video doesn't look good to me: http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/article3303681.ece#comments

Shows the narrator putting his bare hand on the main steam line valve exiting the reactor when in self sustain mode. The published data shows 105 deg C outlet temperature when in self sustain mode. The narrator also grabs the un-insulated blue pipe right as it leaves the container and holds it. I ask, how do you grab hold of a 105 deg C object and not pull away? He also holds his hand on the insulation and says; "Not very hot." or "Not too hot."

[Joseph C.]

This video doesn't look good to me: http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/article3303681.ece#comments

Shows the narrator putting his bare hand on the main steam line valve exiting the reactor when in self sustain mode. The published data shows 105 deg C outlet temperature when in self sustain mode. The narrator also grabs the un-insulated blue pipe right as it leaves the container and holds it. I ask, how do you grab hold of a 105 deg C object and not pull away? He also holds his hand on the insulation and says; "Not very hot." or "Not too hot."

There is a comment that says the video was shot after the test when everything was cooling down. So that negates that, or does it? The same commenter continues:

Closed water condensate drainage valve
Somebody asked Mr. Rossi about the water-condensate drainage valve, which is obviously shown closed in the latest posted movie.
Here the explanation from Mr. Rossi:
------------
Andrea Rossi
October 31st, 2011 at 6:07 PM
Dear Paul Gordon:
The valve has been always open, under the strict control of the Consultant of the Customer. The video you talk of has been made during the cooling down of the E-Cat, after it has been turned off.
Warm Regards,
A.R
-----------

But if you watch the movie, you hear at the end very clear the voice of Mats Lewan saying: It is now almost 3 o clock.
That means, that time the movie was recorded, the e-cat should have been in the middle of the so called 'self sustaining' mode.

So, who is wrong?
I hope Mr. Mats Lewan can clarify.

Actually, I believe the time given by Mats Lewan, because - as you can see - it was still bright daylight.

[AussieJester]

@BiGMooSE ...Answer = you can't ~65c is about it for me
grabbing the can on my turnigy outrunner and holding it there, after that
Its to hot to hold, 100c plus you would most certainly
Flinch....

KiM

[liveforphysics]

It's just a larger scale phony-bologna model of his small phony-bologna model.

Same game, larger stakes, and trying to sucker some idiots into believing it.

[bigmoose]

But if you watch the movie, you hear at the end very clear the voice of Mats Lewan saying: It is now almost 3 o clock.
That means, that time the movie was recorded, the e-cat should have been in the middle of the so called 'self sustaining' mode.

So, who is wrong?
I hope Mr. Mats Lewan can clarify.

Actually, I believe the time given by Mats Lewan, because - as you can see - it was still bright daylight.

Ok, I looked at the data printout. 15:00-16:00 temp between 104 and 107 deg C, well above AJ's hand limit of 65 deg C. The data goes out to 18:31:36 and the temp is still 103.7 deg C. So should we see shadows if it is after 6:31 pm in Bologna, Italy!

[Hillhater]

. The narrator also grabs the un-insulated blue pipe right as it leaves the container and holds it. I ask, how do you grab hold of a 105 deg C object and not pull away? He also holds his hand on the insulation and says; "Not very hot." or "Not too hot."

Lets be honest here guys... he didnt "grab" the un-insulated pipe,..he barely touched it with his finger tips !
..even i can do that on 100 C ...and i am certainly no "Grasshopper"
.. And what would you expect on a insulated pipe lagging ??

There are much bigger questions than these to be answered.

[Joseph C.]

. The narrator also grabs the un-insulated blue pipe right as it leaves the container and holds it. I ask, how do you grab hold of a 105 deg C object and not pull away? He also holds his hand on the insulation and says; "Not very hot." or "Not too hot."

Lets be honest here guys... he didnt "grab" the un-insulated pipe,..he barely touched it with his finger tips !
..even i can do that on 100 C ...and i am certainly no "Grasshopper"
.. And what would you expect on a insulated pipe lagging ??

There are much bigger questions than these to be answered.

You are correct however I really doubt you or anyone else will get the answers you are looking for out of Rossi.

As long as he is in charge only demonstrations will result. He seems to have convinced this company's engineer, Nyteknik, Bolgna University's scientists and others so irrespective of what is going on the story definitely has merited attention.

[montyp]

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. That goes both ways. At this point with so many people involved, it would be an extraordinary scam. All we can do is wait for more evidence... and speculate the effects of such a device...

If it does work... oddly enough, the short term big winners might be companies that the environmentalist hate the most. Mining and oil extraction require massive amounts of energy, if those energy cost were to drop, these companies would most likely be able to hold on to their margins. While the purchase cost of these products drops consumption would increase. Until battery cost decrease, people will still be driving (and factories producing) ICE vehicles. It is not totally inconceivable that cold fusion would "kill" the electric car... for a while.

I've see this written somewhere else, but shorting commodities and going long on refineries might be a good plan.

[Gordo]

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. That goes both ways. At this point with so many people involved, it would be an extraordinary scam. All we can do is wait for more evidence... and speculate the effects of such a device...

If it does work... oddly enough, the short term big winners might be companies that the environmentalist hate the most. Mining and oil extraction require massive amounts of energy, if those energy cost were to drop, these companies would most likely be able to hold on to their margins. While the purchase cost of these products drops consumption would increase. Until battery cost decrease, people will still be driving (and factories producing) ICE vehicles. It is not totally inconceivable that cold fusion would "kill" the electric car... for a while.

I've see this written somewhere else, but shorting commodities and going long on refineries might be a good plan.

This religion of blindness and stupidity is how the scam has gotten to this far.

[montyp]

This religion of blindness and stupidity is how the scam has gotten to this far.

You are arguing for logic with emotion. Please try again.

[liveforphysics]

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. That goes both ways. At this point with so many people involved, it would be an extraordinary scam. All we can do is wait for more evidence... and speculate the effects of such a device...

Historically, it only becomes easier to fool people when more get involved.
When the team came from NASA with proper instrumentation to evaluate the device, what a shock! I didn't work at all for those days!
The moment they leave, it works again for newspaper reporters and dolt's who don't have a clue what they are looking at.

If I had to make a huge scam to fool folks, and I could pick any audience to fool in the world, I would pick 2 groups, college professors and engineers. That would be the easiest prey.

I would say that it's like a magic show, but even a 2-bit magic show does a much better job than this bumbling moron. lol

[montyp]

Yep - When dealing with situations like this we must be objective. That said, even when I know it is a 2-bit magic show. I still like to watch

I'd like to think that I have been following this particular "magic show" pretty close. I haven't found anything indicating that NASA has directly evaluated the ecat. Do you have a link to website stating this. (FYI - I don't say that to be snarky)

[bigmoose]

This is one of the blogs that mentioned NASA that we are keying off of:http://blog.newenergytimes.com/2011/09/28/nasa-advances-evaluation-of-piantelli%E2%80%99s-lenr-research/

On Sept. 5 and 6, a team comprising representatives from an investment group and NASA visited Andrea Rossi’s showroom in Bologna. The team went there with an explicit agreement about test parameters and opportunities to observe and evaluate Rossi’s claims. They did not observe any positive results.

Then Krivit goes to NASA directly and they allegedly won't confirm it:
http://blog.newenergytimes.com/2011/10/06/nasa-wont-confirm-relationship-with-rossi-2/

The Sept. 5 test was inconclusive because Rossi’s device sprang a plumbing leak. The Sept. 6 test was inconclusive because there was no outflow of steam or water.

However, when reporter Mats Lewan from Ny Teknik showed up the next day, Rossi’s device produced an outflow of steam and water. But by then, the NASA observers had gone.
...snip
On Sept. 15, New Energy Times asked Dennis Bushnell, chief scientist at NASA’s Langley Research Center in Hampton, Virginia, whether he attended the Sept. 5 and 6 Rossi tests.

“We can’t discuss anything about that,” Bushnell said.