what vehicle would you want if/when society collapses?

[dkw12002]

Pick up "5 Acres and Independence", by Maurice Kains...still in print, a book written in the 30s and banned because the govt. wanted people to modernize, not live the agrarian life. Kains was with the Dept of Ag at one time, recommended how to garden, keep goats or a dairy cow (Ayrshire were his fav. as I recall...haven't seen the book in 30 years), build a privy, etc. etc. This was long before the back to the country movement in the 60's and the Whole Earth magazine and catalogues, but the idea was the same. I did something pretty darn close to this in the 60s, then did an about face and went to dental school, but I could still do it. Running water and inside toilets are over-rated and goat tastes just fine. You will need electricity for your e-bike though.

[SamTexas]

Pick up "5 Acres and Independence", by Maurice Kains...still in print, a book written in the 30s and banned because the govt. wanted people to modernize, not live the agrarian life.

The govt. can do that? I googled but could not find any reference to the book being banned. Do you have a link?

Running water and inside toilets are over-rated...

Are you kidding? Definitely NOT overrated for me.

[dkw12002]

The info about it being banned was part of the jacket or the back cover in my copy from 30 years ago when the book became un-banned and was then for sale again since I had bought it. It was originally written in the 1930s. Actually, it also talks about acquiring land and what to pay for it etc. ( $5 an acre or so as I recall) so it is more of a curiosity I suppose, but it was one of the first books to address giving up the rat race to move back to the country. Actually, when I grew up, most of of the country still had no electricity or phones or indoor plumbing, so just moving to the country put you into a pretty primitive existence. I do not recall any discussion of trucks or cars, but a horse was only a good idea if it was a horse for plowing and not a pleasure horse.

[dogman]

Be funny to see somebody try that here. Takes 50 acres to support one jackrabbit. Just about have to cross the Mississippi river before 5 acres can grow your food.

[dkw12002]

You could homestead 5 acres in the East and Midwest. Kains died in 1946 at the age of 77. He had taught at Penn State. I'm from Indiana where many rural people had/have big gardens and a dairy cow, did their own butchering and canning and bought very little at the store. The electrification of rural America came about in the 40s mostly in Indiana. Wabash, Indiana was the first city in the US to have electric lights (Mar. 31, 1880). "In the U. S. in 1930, only 10% of farms had electricity. Partly through the establishment of the Rural Electric Administration (REA) in 1935, the percentage of farms with electricity increased to 33% in 1940. Farms were electrified in Europe before the U.S." from Wikipedia. My vehicle of choice would be a motorcycle for escaping, but a bicycle if there were no gas or electricity at all. Then I would go to the country. I have my place already picked out, and I ain't sayin where neither.

[MikeFairbanks]

You guys have it all wrong. In the post-zombie world you don't need to grow your own food or do any work at all.

Start today (this will take a while). Go out and buy a few thousand cartons of cigarettes. Drive to Mexico and buy thousands of bottles of antibiotics and pain MEDS. Then hit Costco and buy thousands of bars of soap. Next go to an army surplus store and purchase a thousand ammo boxes.

Finally, put the 1000 kits together (be sure to double bag first in gallon ziplocks) and then come up with a system by which you can bury them and remember each location. Don't write it down.

Then, after 90% of the people are croaked and the zombies return to the grave, you're going to be on easy street. Once a month hold an auction. Whoever delivers the most supplies (food) gets the cache.

Easy street.


If you read Dale Carnegie's book "How to win friend and influence Peole," he says that after WWII he could spend an entire day on the town in Tokyo by using one pack of cigarettes as currency.

[dogman]

And the day after your first sale, you are kicking in the wind, hung from your tree in the backyard. You might not want to be the guy with the oil well, when Humongous comes by. Or the crazy 8's or whatever.

Thinking some more, maybe a fast sailboat is what you need. To REALLY get away from other people, if going it alone is your strategy.

[number1cruncher]

My belief is that the majority of society is already braindead. Shortly after the initial meltdown, most of society will just roll over and die. Without Ipads and Starbucks these people will wish to be dead.

My plan is to have a few guns and a nice PA system. If someone gets too close to my house and doesn't listen to my public service announcement, they become dog food, simple.

Of course I live within 10miles of the Capitol, essentially ground 0, so if its a nuclear war that causes the collapse, I'll be a mark on the ground if lucky.

And as for transport, I'll just build a dog sled. They'll need to build up an appetite...

[MikeFairbanks]

And the day after your first sale, you are kicking in the wind, hung from your tree in the backyard. You might not want to be the guy with the oil well, when Humongous comes by

I don't know about that. Kill the goose? But they'll know I'll poop out another golden egg. If they kill me then nobody gets the egg. Besides, I won't have much that they need. I'll have what they want. Cigarettes and soap will be like gold.

Heck, non smokers in prison are the merchant class.

[pwbset]

You might not want to be the guy when Humongous comes by.

Ha.. great reference!

[dogman]

And they'll kill you for that currency, if you seem to have too much of it.

Societal collapse is overrated anyway. Sure, local things happen, Tsunami, earthquake, hurricane, or even drought. And in the immediate area, there can be tons of desperate people. But the earth abides, and not every society will collapse simultaneously. World war of course affects more, but the noncombatants keep the machines going to sell guns etc to the participants. If it's the big boom, well, not enough survivors for there to be shortages of much. Electricity and gasoline may not exist, but man existed without either for many centuries. We just need that shit if there are billions of us.

Watched an incredibly stupid show yesterday about the aftermath of a really extreme pandemic. First, despite killing 99% of LA's population, the entire family never gets sick. Then they decide to walk to Idaho, through the Mohave desert. WTF? who writes this dreck? Worse than the Postman.

I laugh my ass off at preppers, but a decent stash of canned food, and buying rice and beans in larger quantities makes some sense. But not a 5 year supply. There is a gun in the house, but not a ton of ammo. Hiding works better than fighting, ask anybody who endured WWII.

[MikeFairbanks]

I'm just kidding around about my business off ammo kits filled with soap, cigs, and meds.

But, seriously, in the case of massive shortages (not necessarily apocalyptic stuff) having a few thousand bars of soap and a huge supply of cigarettes would be great currency. If you walked into a town with a few bars and a few packs, you could definitely trade for some yummies.

In the event of Humongous, well, what that guy would want from me is not something I'm willing to give. He's a creep.

[hodgie]

Agreed dogman. After 3 weeks, people begin to starve. NOTHING will stop them from taking wherever they can find it. I don't care how many guns you have.

But preparing for a disruption, for about a month or so, seems prudent.

And, disappearing rather than fighting is far more prudent.

[MikeFairbanks]

For those who are serious about off-grid living, one of the best places is the big island of Hawaii. For some people it's their only option. Many folks have catchments for rainwater because public service doesn't exist and wells aren't an option. Off-grid electricity is easy using wind and solar power if you don't put much demand on the system. All you need is refrigeration, a pump for water and a little bit of light. And you can use an electric golf cart to get to the store or work. And when society collapses you won't have too many people to worry about. Heck, you'll help each other.

The Big Island is a strange and wonderful place, but it's not easy.

[Pure]

I agree Mike. Our paper money will have no value. A trade/barter systems will be the first forms of commerce after said break up of society.

Salt was even at one time a form of currency. Men were paid for their daily work with it, hence the term, worth his salt.

[pwbset]

But preparing for a disruption, for about a month or so, seems prudent.

No vastly populated urban center would survive a month long disruption in utilities or food supplies. It would be anarchy after a week at best.

[dogman]

With a 25 pound bag of rice in the house, and some cans of cambells soup in the cupboard, you could hunker down in a city apt for quite some time, never risking sticking your head up for anything. Water is the big deal actually, followed by fuel to boil it. Best thing preppers do is store water. You can eat less for a really long time, but water you will need in 48 hours. In the book I read about the fall of Berlin, the people collaborating in each building had to risk sending somebody out for water at a nearby hand pump fairly often. But in a modern city, no hand pump at all. Nor any small wells nearby. So you'd have to travel to a stream or river once your stash ran out. Then have a way to make it drinkable.

Hopefully the problem is not so bad you can't last through that first month. Then join the eights or whoever has the power by then.

Best currency is going to be the ability to make machines work again, on wierd fuels. will be better than gold, booze, or cigarettes. Who was rich in the Postman? The guy that kept the hydro dam working. Or master blaster in thunderdome.

[MikeFairbanks]

Well, I doubt society is going to collapse anytime soon, but I sure wish the millions of people who think like Ted Nugent would calm down. They really believe we are on the verge of a socialist government takeover.

I also don't understand how they say the government is too big and can't do anything right, but then they somehow feel the military is an exception (even though it's too big and can't do much of anything right).

[dogman]

Very true, a collapse of society that isn't a localized result of a tsunami or something is not real likely. Society becoming something really unpleasant is extremely likely. Long history of that happening.

[Mike B]

My first choice is an ECAT steam engine powered Hummer, with armor, maybe a few CO2 lasers, but Rossi is behind on his schedule, so I'll settle for this wood burning machine as I cruise the dirt roads of a post collapse dystopia looking for cigarettes:

[Mike B]

You guys have it all wrong. In the post-zombie world you don't need to grow your own food or do any work at all.

Start today (this will take a while). Go out and buy a few thousand cartons of cigarettes. Drive to Mexico and buy thousands of bottles of antibiotics and pain MEDS. Then hit Costco and buy thousands of bars of soap. Next go to an army surplus store and purchase a thousand ammo boxes.

Finally, put the 1000 kits together (be sure to double bag first in gallon ziplocks) and then come up with a system by which you can bury them and remember each location. Don't write it down.

Then, after 90% of the people are croaked and the zombies return to the grave, you're going to be on easy street. Once a month hold an auction. Whoever delivers the most supplies (food) gets the cache.

Easy street.


If you read Dale Carnegie's book "How to win friend and influence Peole," he says that after WWII he could spend an entire day on the town in Tokyo by using one pack of cigarettes as currency.

Why not bury freeze dried food instead?

[REdiculous]

I'd probably steal every golf-cart in the state and start a taxi service.

I'd convert the tractor to gasifier/producer gas and would fit it w/ a PTO-driven generator. That would easily run our house, so a couple more and you could charge the taxis. Add wind turbines and solar, where possible (could do pumped-storage instead of batteries).

[strantor]

I laugh my ass off at preppers, but a decent stash of canned food, and buying rice and beans in larger quantities makes some sense. But not a 5 year supply. There is a gun in the house, but not a ton of ammo. Hiding works better than fighting, ask anybody who endured WWII.

I've got 90lbs of rice, a pallet of bottled water, and 200rds for my rifle - that's the extent of my "prepper" activities so far. For now, I would be OK if another hurricane hit; that's about it. I went online to order some ammo a couple of weeks ago, when I heard that the price of guns & ammo was going up. I had 1000rds selected and I went almost all the way through the checkout, was about to click "submit", when the thought occurred to me that if I were to survive an apocalyptic scenario long enough to put 1000rds through a bolt action rifle at armed aggressors, I would have killed & accrued way more than 1000rds of ammo, plus more guns to shoot them with. So I changed my order quantity to 200. I agree, hiding is better. Avoid conflict, but don't go unarmed.

This thread, along with other stuff I've been reading lately, has led me to reevaluate things. I don't really think that a armored mad max-mobile is the way to go. For now I'm sticking to my plan of purchasing a small piece of land for farming, but I think that getting my family a few good mountain bikes would be more advantageous. Also I plan to get a shotgun. No bunker, no pipe bombs, no 30yr supply of canned potted meat, and no doomsday seed bank are in my plans. I'm keeping it simple, and reasonable. I think the cigs & soap are a good idea though.

[dogman]

Mad max mobile might work better, If I shuffled off to Fort Bliss 40 miles away and stole an abrams tank. It would make a decent deterrent parked in my driveway.

Getting away with taking an abrams from the army, well, there's yer problem. But if they are laying around after a pandemic, hell yeah! Turn my wife into tank girl.

Hide till that don't work, talk till that don't work, try to run till that don't work, then fight. Look poor is a good start on the hiding.

Good idea to have a stash of water in hurricane country. Worst disaster likely to happen here is the chile crop fails.

[Joe Perez]

Someone on another forum which I frequent recently posted about this Doomsday Prepper show, and I was trying to remember which forum it was on.

'Twasn't here that I first saw it, but a search led me to this thread.

I must admit, it's kind of a hoot to see folks hyper-fixing on one specific and extremely improbable calamity (eg: "we're preparing for a complete polar shift of the earth's magnetic field" or "we live in New Jersey and are prepping for a super-volcano.")

At any rate, I've come to a decision. If I ever find myself in command of a rogue atomic arsenal, and am bent on inflicting a nuclear holocaust on North America, I'm going to completely ignore the major cities, oil refineries and military bases, and bomb the hell out of all of the most remote parts of Alberta / Saskatchewan / Montana / Wyoming / Idaho / Colorado / Utah / Nevada.

Just to screw with the folks who thought they'd be safe there.