Giant Revive project

[Kin]

Yes, what killed some of my thoughts about the revive was in part that I can't seem to get one around here and used they're $500 for a $700 dollar original bike. At least on the east coast [I saw a few on the west coast for ~$300]. Thanks for the other option

[Dee Jay]

They are however incredibly heavy for what they are. 46 lbs by themselves IIRC.

are you an Ebiker or a body builder??

At this point, I would MUCH rather have an AT Bike E than a Revive

hooo yeah… Bike E… the tandem would be great for single rider Ebike conversion, nice long frame beam plenty of space underneath for a large mid-drive motor (maybe two motors) and battery packs.

I mentioned once before that the Revive was a knock off of the Ebike and they sued Giant. I wish saved that article..

noisy motor...

[sk8norcal]

^ hmmm, funky front fork...

I mentioned once before that the Revive was a knock off of the Ebike and they sued Giant. I wish saved that article..

u meant BikeE ...

http://poleary.proboards.com/index.cgi? ... thread=180

[Dee Jay]

u meant BikeE ...

oopsy

lol

yeah Bike E

^ hmmm, funky front fork...

I know right? like a caster. proly cos there's no rake/trail

edit: that's not the article I read but interesting to know posters opinions, thanks!

[sk8norcal]

here's one i haven't seen before....
cheap...
http://www.sbraweb.org/?q=node/5069

[Dee Jay]

here's one i haven't seen before....
cheap...
http://www.sbraweb.org/?q=node/5069

yeah evox are nice…saw one and it stopped my heart lol

and the cannondales with headtube shock

semi recumbents, love 'em lots!


but after my success with my folding PCB 20"/26" I can't go back down to plain 20" bikes.

I'm loving my PCB, it's my main bike right now. 20/26 are the only bikes I'll build from now on, I think…

[sk8norcal]

wats a PCB? link?

[Kin]

I'm loving my PCB, it's my main bike right now. 20/26 are the only bikes I'll build from now on, I think…

What do you mean? I assume 20/26 means 26" front wheel. I guess that's slightly more stable, is that why you like it?

OK. Sorry OP, this is getting semi off topic. How do we get it back on topic? What are your feelings about the whole situation right now?

[StudEbiker]

Not sure what PCB is, but 20/26, would be 20" tire in front, and 26" in rear.

[Dee Jay]

wats a PCB? link?

I'm loving my PCB, it's my main bike right now. 20/26 are the only bikes I'll build from now on, I think…

What do you mean? I assume 20/26 means 26" front wheel. I guess that's slightly more stable, is that why you like it?

OK. Sorry OP, this is getting semi off topic. How do we get it back on topic? What are your feelings about the whole situation right now?

PCB stands for Precious Cargo Bike, an original name I made up for that project.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11453&start=15

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=36981&p=585941&sid=ea6f0e8d4161008ec4e8464939d230d3#p585941

Recently, I started calling it the Double Dutch Bike for the following reasons:

-I like weed (Dutchie/Kouchie)
-a nod at Dutch cargo bike makers, who also likes Dutchie
-and I hauled a Dutch Oven on it!
-EDIT: Oh yeah and it's a funky name


Won't be surprised if Madsen "creative" team steals my new bike name lol

Back to the Revive... If done right, converting the Revive's rear wheel to 26" will extend range, yet have the same comfort and step-thru profile like scooters. Not sure how 20/26 Revive is gonna look, tho.. The easiest way to convert it is to use an xtracycle kit but I think a chunky steel MTB swing arm would be more stable.

[amberwolf]

FWIW, there is another Double Dutch Ebike build here on ES, though it's actually spelled/said Doubl-E Dutch.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=34085

[Kin]

So, reading more about recumbent, I think I now understand that a smaller front with a larger back will handle better, though it surprised me because I normally think 20" is a pretty nice situation for motors, and that the only downside to my 20" bike is that the front sometimes is more wobbly.

Back to the original thread, I just happened upon an evalbum giant revive
http://www.evalbum.com/3865
That's actually not a super build, but I guess my point would be that there are quite a few giant revives to look at for ideas.

With already having the bike, a $1000 budget, 30-35mph, 20 mile range, you're almost there, but one of the three I think would need to give way a little bit. Or, perhaps you can wait for very good deals on each component.

But let's price some things.
MAC 1000W kit, $365. Running this kit at 48v will give you your desired speed, and would be more like 1350watts.
Shipping for said kit: ~$50 if you go by sea. Not sure what otherwise. I'm guessing based on my ~$35 dollar cost for my simple 20" mac motor kit.
Random tidbits of wiring ~$20.

This leaves you with $565 dollars left. I suppose that's where the 52v, 11.5ah battery pack idea comes from. Whoops. I should have just listened to what you already asked about. It's not bad. I'm not sure that it will get you quite 20 miles though. That would be asking for (52*11.5 =598whs*80%[to not fully discharge]=478wh/20miles = 24wh/mi. I think it's too optimistic, for the high losses you will get at the higher speeds. Are you willing to compromise that aspect [range] of the ride? If it's a commute, your easiest bet is to work hard on making charging at work available.

Cell man's very well made battery will probably be cheaper than the (hu)man-hours of putting one together yourself, but you also have that option. The 20ah a123 crew has been buying them for, eh?, $25/ea all things considered? I hope I'm not wrong, but that's really cheap for a123. 17*25 = $425, + ??$50?? for the pieces involved in connectors, $55 for a 16s 30a constant BMS, and you have...only $30 or so to buy a charger and figure how how/where to mount the batteries. This is the only thing I can think of to circumvent the range/speed/money equation. I guess that makes it a range/speed/money/time equation.

Don't forget at some point that you'll probably need torque arms at that power.

_____

^I think I wrote a lot, but didn't say much.

[Kin]

Also, you might ask him what it would cost for a 13.8ah pack, what I believe is the next step up from 11.5ah (or just ask him how much the next step up in capacity would cost. My guess is that it would be ~$80 more, and should secure you more range. BUT you need to get feedback from someone who has been running in that range, because I've never had a long commute nor tracked whs in the limited time on my motley collection of e-stuff.

[sk8norcal]

here's another revive by jondoh,
he gave me a short ride on it,

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4651&p=78780&hilit=+revive#p78780

[sk8norcal]

So, reading more about recumbent, I think I now understand that a smaller front with a larger back will handle better, though it surprised me because I normally think 20" is a pretty nice situation for motors, and that the only downside to my 20" bike is that the front sometimes is more wobbly.

not sure about that,
recumbents use 20" front as a compromise,
there are dual 700c recumbents out there,
http://www.tandems-recumbents.com/wp/?p=58

[Kin]

Oi, that suggests that you might have substantially less than a 20 mile range with your pack. Good to check out the data on that, and remember that he's going at a slower speed.

Edit: To Sn0rcal,

I think a 20 inch front wheel can work fine. I'm not sure if you meant "i'm not sure" towards the 26 back and 20 front is good. Or if you meant not sure towards the 20" front being unstable.

The reason why I claimed the latter, that a 20" is marginally less stable, is just that I believe a small wheel is more prone to "wobble" kind of how casters in grocery carts can wobble. But, a good stem and keeping your hands on the handlebars I don't even know if it should be noticeable. Might just be the arrangement of the 20" on MY bike that happens to feel unstable, and I'm attributing it to a phenomon that isn't actually causing the problem.

The whole deal about a 26" in back and 20" in front was something that I read about tadpole (two wheels in front) recumbents, and I believe had to do with improving the COG tipping point for front wheel braking, but retrospectively that shouldn't apply as much to two wheel recumbent or delta trikes, but perhaps could. I'm not sure why that kind of angle couldn't be designed into the bike, eitherway

[Sacman]

What? I never knew there was a video made for that Double Dutch song yet here it is.
BTW I always thought Snoop Dog's Snoop talk was just a cheap ripoff of language use by the Double Dutch Man here.

Recently, I started calling it the Double Dutch Bike for the following reasons:

-I like weed (Dutchie/Kouchie)
-a nod at Dutch cargo bike makers, who also likes Dutchie
-and I hauled a Dutch Oven on it!
-EDIT: Oh yeah and it's a funky name

[Dee Jay]

FWIW, there is another Double Dutch Ebike build here on ES, though it's actually spelled/said Doubl-E Dutch.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=34085

It don't count cos there's nothing "double" about it.

[sk8norcal]

Edit: To Sn0rcal,

I think a 20 inch front wheel can work fine. I'm not sure if you meant "i'm not sure" towards the 26 back and 20 front is good. Or if you meant not sure towards the 20" front being unstable.

The reason why I claimed the latter, that a 20" is marginally less stable, is just that I believe a small wheel is more prone to "wobble" kind of how casters in grocery carts can wobble. But, a good stem and keeping your hands on the handlebars I don't even know if it should be noticeable. Might just be the arrangement of the 20" on MY bike that happens to feel unstable, and I'm attributing it to a phenomon that isn't actually causing the problem.

I was refering to what you said, "So, reading more about recumbent, I think I now understand that a smaller front with a larger back will handle better."

I never read any claim like that. (we are talking 2 wheelers here)
Many riders have claimed that having 20" front wheel feel 'twitchy' vs 700c, so you are not the only one.

Like I said, many 2 wheel recumbents use a small front wheel because its a design compromise, not because it handles better.

[Kin]

I'm mixing things all around! Yeah, I don't think there's a reason that it should be good to have a larger rear in the back, at least in terms of handling *for a two wheeler*. I could see it simplifying some of the gearing, at least. Not sure, then, why dee jay likes his 20/26 much more, but curious to hear feedback even if it's just simply experience [perhaps, especially if it is just experience].

[Dee Jay]

Ok THREAD JACKERS, let's talk about me Me ME! LOL

many 2 wheel recumbents use a small front wheel because its a design compromise, not because it handles better.

Yes, a compromise, 20" inch is twitchy and nimble, not what you want at high speeds but I believe my long wheel base helps with stability. I've rolled downhill at about 30 mph no problem. Another factor to consider is rake and trail. My 20" front rake/trail is correct but I believe once I sit on the bike the frame sags a bit and the rake/trail changes making the front wheel less twitchy. Just a guess.

I don't think there's a reason that it should be good to have a larger rear in the back, at least in terms of handling *for a two wheeler*. I could see it simplifying some of the gearing, at least. Not sure, then, why dee jay likes his 20/26 much more, but curious to hear feedback even if it's just simply experience [perhaps, especially if it is just experience].

Low pro step-thru front and long range capability with the rear is what I :heart: about the PCB The Madsen Bucket Bike's 20" rear is great for torque to haul a bucket of kids and fried chicken but I think range is limited. I'm no bike expert, so tell me, can the Bucket Bike chainrings be changed to achieve the same speeds and pedaling effort as 26" wheel?

Also FYI..The last phase of the PCB will be a recumbent conversion where I'll be more laid back than the Revive. My PCB will allow me to lay back about as low as a Bike-E rider's position which is ideal, not too low like trikes. A Mundo 26/26 pedal forward conversion would be NICE! but it will not allow a rider to sit lower than the height of the wheels. If or when I do convert my revive rear to 26" the rider position will remain the same.

[Dee Jay]

just a cheap ripoff

yeah, I get it, Slick...

but you're wrong. If you've ever seen a revive you'll see it's all quality parts, aside from the factory tires that aren't worth a squirt.

All aluminum or stainless steel and chromo.

Paint job is impeccable, better than Bike-E, I think. but I guess nobody here cares about paint jobs... I do remember warning an ES member to be careful not to scratch his bike paint with those black plastic conduits and I got scoffed at for caring about bike cosmetics... duct tape is "in".. lol

There were two sizes sold, one for short riders, one for tall. can't remember the specs, both our revives are tall.

reviveridingsmall.jpg (178.9 KiB) Viewed 137 times

if I may have permission to state my opinion... cos I know opinions aren't welcome 'round here lol.. big and tall people don't look quite right on the revive. 26" revive has to be made!

Back Rest---- pssh..Nicer than nice.

..$500 new is very reasonable. It's been discontinued so get yours now while supplies last!

edit:aha, I realized what it is about that photo... the saddle and handlebar height are both adjustable but Joe Rider didn't bother adjusting them. You can tell by his right knee, it's bent too much. Ride like that on long distances and you'll be in world of hurt the next day.

[amberwolf]

the saddle and handlebar height are both adjustable but Joe Rider didn't bother adjusting them. You can tell by his right knee, it's bent too much. Ride like that on long distances and you'll be in world of hurt the next day.

Ride like that for years and end up like me, with worn out knees (cuz as a kid and for a long while later I didn't know you *could* adjust those things, or should--I thought the bolts were just to hold it all together).

[Dee Jay]

Ride like that for years and end up like me, with worn out knees (cuz as a kid and for a long while later I didn't know you *could* adjust those things, or should--I thought the bolts were just to hold it all together).

yep...
On the other hand, if the saddle was so high that the pedal comes off your foot on a (downward-stroke?) and that pedal comes back up to your foot with x% of your body weight on it.. you'll risk bending your knee the opposite direction and SNAP! you're leg will be looking like a chicken leg, OUCH! it almost happened to me

It's all about safe range of motion. If you want maximum exercise then a wide range of motion is best but you gotta adjust the height a little at time to determine what is exercise pain and what is injury pain.