Hit car door in NYC, guy blamed me and wanted to fight

Was driving today in Staten Island and there was a decent amount of traffic in a three lane street. Many cars were parked in the bus lane for some reason. I was riding pretty fast about 20MPH-25MPH some guy flew open the car door. I tried to swerve and brake around it but crashed into it with the right side of my bike and the right side of my body crashed into the car door pretty hard. I didn't seem to really hurt anything except pain in my shoulder and it hurts a bit if I lift it above my head. But that was a weak shoulder that I keep hurting and seems to be somewhat better now, but it definitely is hurt. I think my right side of my body, mostly my right arm, just crashed completly into his door. I definitely thought my bike was broke and not rideable but I picked it up and it looked fine.

A big stocky guy in his 30's, looked typical staten island Irish and these guys like to fight, gets out and is pissed and is blaming me that I damged the inside of his door. His girlfriend gets out and is more concerned if I am hurt. I am not sure the legal rules here but I thought if someone opens their car door into you it is their fault. I told the guy, look you opened the car door into me and your parked in a marked red bus only lane. He thought it was my fault because I crashed into his door and I should have seen him. Maybe my pedal did most of the damage but I didn't look to see if he had any damage, but he must have seen damage as he was pissed and saying who is going to pay for his door.

Now I am not exactly clear with everything but when I said I am going to go he said I am not going anywhere and started to step closer in an aggressive stance like he was going to fight me. His girlfriend was trying to calm him down and telling him to let me leave. I told him "look its your fault, that is the bike law, you opened the car door into me". He didn't care. After a while I just got on my bike as he was getting more aggressive and rode away and expected him to try and grab me but he did not.

What is the law here? Who is at fault when someone opens a car door into a bike? I am thinking I should have told the guy, look, you want to call the cops and see whos fault it is, I will pay the $50 dollars damage to your door and you pay me $1000's for my sholder injury". I am getting tired of people rear ending me in my car and now opening the door right into me. Problem is I do not have health insurance so do not want to deal with doctors.

I'm going to play it very safe now with these car doors and probably just stay in the driving lane.

I'm not a lawyer but as I understand NYC traffic law it's his fault and $150 fine if he wants to press the issue with NYPD.

You post of a couple crashes - get some training and learn how to avoid stuff like this....

Hope you are OK EdwardNY.

I saw this happen to a bike courier in Washington DC once. About 10 other couriers were immediately on the guy in the car, and last I saw the car guy was dishing out cash to the biker courier. Helps to have a gang of like mined bikers around all the time...~smiley~

Joe Mc.

Glad your ok and just a little bruised and sore. Sometimes accidents like this are a wake up call to keep you on your toes. Maybe, even change the way you ride.

How is your front lighting situation? Is it bright enough to warn people ahead that your approaching? Even so, always ALWAYS assume every door is out to get you.

If there was a police report, and information was exchanged (including insurance information), and you were definitively not at fault, the damage assessment (in this case, your health and the bike) would be covered under his insurance. The wrench in the gears is, your bike is probably considered illegal in New York (just my hunch, from reading laws on ES), and if the police officer was "nitpicky" in the report and mentioned your bike was motorized it would be more trouble for you. Otherwise, you probably have a claim.

I got into an accident back in spring with an illegal vehicle (upright scooter) with a young guy who rolled through a stop sign. His fault, obviously. Called the cops. The report only mentioned "scooter". His insurance was able to cover the damage to me and my scooter. Never had to deal with his vehicle damages. This is Maryland. And currently, the laws have changed since October. Simply, if you have two wheels and a motor on it, it probably needs to be registered under the DMV.

Long time ago, before I discovered electric bicycles, I was riding my rocket bike, residential neighborhood, starting to get dark. Car driver turns left to go into his driveway. I am traveling the opposite direction. Car almost hits me. Really close. I stop to tell the guy that he almost killed me and I am happy that I am still alive. Guy starts yelling at me and tells me that I should have a light. [He was right] Guy is acting like he wants to fight. I turn my bike around so the leaf blower is facing him. Turn the cruse control leaf blower to HIGH and blast the guy with wind. I then drove away. Hope I never see that guy again

Sorry to hear that edward. yea sounds like he was a real jerk and in the wrong.

if someone's action causes someone else to crash like that I dont know how it's not the persons fault.

yea you need to watch out for idiots , but who doesn't ? I couldn't take that many people in such a small area.

hope your ok tho bud.

Is it true that I could be at fault for having a motorized bike. Can anyone who knows NY law confirm this?

Let me rephrase your post.

You were driving an unregistered illegal motor vehicle by new york laws, were in an accident, failed to provide insurance information and fled the scene and failed to report the accident, then posted an admission of your criminal acts online.


That about sums it up?

Lessss said:

Let me rephrase your post.

You were driving an unregistered illegal motor vehicle by new york laws, were in an accident, failed to provide insurance information and fled the scene and failed to report the accident, then posted an admission of your criminal acts online.


That about sums it up?

Click to expand...

I dunno that sounds a bit harsh.. if it's coming down to a case of fight or flee and there's a lot of uncertainty I might do the same thing.

My interpretation was that he left before the guy could do the physical abuse that he felt was coming. now I probably would have grabbed a pic
of the license if I could , but who knows.

ohzee said:

Lessss said:

Let me rephrase your post.

You were driving an unregistered illegal motor vehicle by new york laws, were in an accident, failed to provide insurance information and fled the scene and failed to report the accident, then posted an admission of your criminal acts online.


That about sums it up?

Click to expand...

I dunno that sounds a bit harsh.. if it's coming down to a case of fight or flee and there's a lot of uncertainty I might do the same thing.

My interpretation was that he left before the guy could do the physical abuse that he felt was coming. now I probably would have grabbed a pic
of the license if I could , but who knows.

Click to expand...

Both have interesting points. The guy definitely was showing agression and wanted to push a fight (based on the way he was moving and coming closer and looking, you know when someone is going into fight mode in situations) all this while I was claiming it was not my fault. I do not think he even mentioned calling the police to file an accident report.

Here is New York state traffic law regarding dooring not sure if NYC has a different law but I doubt it.
§ 1214. Opening and closing vehicle doors. No person shall open the door of a motor vehicle on the side available to moving traffic unless and until it is reasonably safe to do so, and can be done without interfering with the movement of other traffic, nor shall any person leave a door open on the side of a vehicle available to moving traffic for a period of time longer than necessary to load or unload passengers.

So it looks like the law in New York is in favor of bikers here.

But did I leave a scene of an accident, maybe so, but I am not here to try and sue the guy as I have no information and it is over. But for the future I would like to know where I stand in situations like this.

Whether your bike is legal in NYS or not is not the issue and likely wouldn't be. The statute you pasted only mentions: "interfering with the movement of other traffic". You can be walking or riding an illegal eBike - doesn't change the fact every car driver is responsible to make sure it's clear before opening their door into traffic lane.

I've heard cops on the street mention a $150 ticket whenever they roll up on one of these dooring incidents. I once had NYPD stop me for being in the park after closing and they never mentioned or paid any notice to my eBike.

Reality is, other drivers don't give a shit about you, me or any other road user. Most will kill you if they think they can get away with it. Hell, I've had passengers in gridlocked inside lanes swing a door open to clear a coat or belt, etc.

Gotta assume the worst and merely hope for the best. MSF skills and training can better prepare you to SEE various traffic situations and maintain a safer buffer of space and choice speed.

Most of us have seen our share of "new riders" dive into biking and then learn some hard, hard lessons of the ROAD. Good luck...

I doubt any NYC police officer would think an ebike, which mostly looks like a bike, would think that should be insured and registered. I would be surprised if they even put it on the police report. They would definitely not charge me with anything on the scene. It is just unimanginable for them to go into that area with a bike having a small motor being illegal.

This guy just swung the door wide open and most likely did not even look. He was also parked in a bus only lane, which may mean nothing as many were due to it being near the hurricane Sandy coastal damage. But I am sure in the police report it would mention that he was parked illegally in a bus only lane.

I hit damn hard, my chest and arm hurt pretty bad and I can't lift above my head without pain. I notice that even opening doors are hard and I use my other arm for that.

For that post above who said I left the scene of an accident. I most likely did this guy a favor. I am sure if I wanted to push it I could hire a lawyer and sue him for pain suffering, medical expenses, MRI of my shoulder. Because he wanted to fight me and was acting like a tough guy, I would have pushed it also and got the right lawyers who knew the right doctors.

From my research it does not seem to matter if I was driving an illegal vehicle because he was at fault and is liable to pay the damages. If the cops wanted to hit me with a separate charge of driving an illegal vehicle then that would not play into me making an insurance claim.
I have searched the internet and it seems from examples that hitting an uninsured and unregstered vehicle, when it is your fault, then you are just as liable as if you hit an insured and registered vehicle.

When I open my car door I always open it slowly, this guy swung it wide open and very fast. He obviously did not care about anybody else.

Lessss said:

Let me rephrase your post.

You were driving an unregistered illegal motor vehicle by new york laws, were in an accident, failed to provide insurance information and fled the scene and failed to report the accident, then posted an admission of your criminal acts online.


That about sums it up?

Click to expand...

No.

The guy failed to use his mirrors

The lesson to be learned has nothing to do with the legality of the situation, because getting doored can seriously hurt or even kill you. You're lucky to escape this lesson unscathed, because it's likely to be far more serious if another lesson is required.........Don't ride within reach of the doors of parked cars.

John

Fleeing an acident scene to avoid violence is permitted but just enough to contact the police. If you didn't contact the police then you have simply fled the scene of an accident.
It was an accident scene between 2 motor vehicles as ebikes are motor vehicles in N.Y.
Yes according to the law here you could get into some serious trouble if you are able to be identified by the cops etc.. etc... etc...

Just imagine this pissed off guy too dumb to realize he is at fault legally wanting to push it and contacting the police(maybe he has a buddy on the force that will overlook the dooring) and they actually get off their asses and get some camera angles and are able to identify and track you down. Some serious charges could be laid. Likely? No, but........

John in CR said:

The lesson to be learned has nothing to do with the legality of the situation, because getting doored can seriously hurt or even kill you. You're lucky to escape this lesson unscathed, because it's likely to be far more serious if another lesson is required.........Don't ride within reach of the doors of parked cars.

John

Click to expand...

That's very true and great advice which I do my best to follow , but there's been times on my commute where I have cars coming both ways with cars parked on the side and the only option I have is to stop
let them pass or keep going.. I like 4 ft from a parked car , but there's been times I have been forced closer.

Still knock on wood here probably over 5k miles in the last year-two accident free. Not sure why I did that to myself lol.

John in CR said:

The lesson to be learned ..*snip*...Don't ride within reach of the doors of parked cars.

Click to expand...

This is the safest approach to ebiking. However we are sorry for your misshap.

I will for sure not ride near car doors again and if I have to I will slow my speed.

It was definitely no help hitting that car door at 20MPH, that was very fast. It would probably have been much easier to hit it at 10MPH.

This whole things makes me question ebiking around the city now and my safety. I am not going to lie also that I was not wearing a helmet and I have been doing lots of crazy driving also. Things like driving from street to sidewalk to get air off of the area of the curbs that slope upwards. Then repeating that. Driving really fast on sidewalks and taking chances in areas that have fences close to the side walks. I'm a bit of a daredevil and the constant speed of an electric motor doesn't help.

Another problem with ebiking which does not help me is on my Ebike in the city there is almost no worry about getting speeding or reckless driving tickets as your on a bike and cops will not bother you. They probably do not even know what to charge you with if they wanted to charge you with something. Your basically free to do what you want on an ebike with the only danger of hurting yourself. When I first drove these things I said they should be illegal. These machines kind of put you above the law in a way.

If you compare this with those kids who ride dirt bikes illegally in the city and run away from cops, an ebike can still be just as fun, dangerous and reckless, but with an ebike you really can do all the crazy things you can with a dirt bike and not attract any attention from the cops.

The only thing keeping ebikes from being banned and cracked down upon is the fact that they are so rare. I believe if ebikes were more available and cheaper these things would totally get out of hand. I also think what is preventing the more widespread use is the difficulty of making a custom ebike to hit speeds of 25MPH+.

I will for sure not ride near car doors again and if I have to I will slow my speed.

It was definitely no help hitting that car door at 20MPH, that was very fast. It would probably have been much easier to hit it at 10MPH.

This whole things makes me question ebiking around the city now and my safety. I am not going to lie also that I was not wearing a helmet and I have been doing lots of crazy driving also. Things like driving from street to sidewalk to get air off of the area of the curbs that slope upwards. Then repeating that. Driving really fast on sidewalks and taking chances in areas that have fences close to the side walks. I'm a bit of a daredevil and the constant speed of an electric motor doesn't help.

Another problem with ebiking which does not help me is on my Ebike in the city there is almost no worry about getting speeding or reckless driving tickets as your on a bike and cops will not bother you. They probably do not even know what to charge you with if they wanted to charge you with something. Your basically free to do what you want on an ebike with the only danger of mostly hurting yourself. When I first drove these things I said they should be illegal. These machines kind of put you above the law in a way.

If you compare this with those kids who ride dirt bikes illegally in the city and run away from cops, an ebike can still be just as fun, dangerous and reckless, but with an ebike you really can do all the crazy things you can with a dirt bike and not attract any attention from the cops.

The only thing keeping ebikes from being banned and cracked down upon is the fact that they are so rare. I believe if ebikes were more available and cheaper these things would totally get out of hand. I also think what is preventing the more widespread use is the difficulty of making a custom ebike to hit speeds of 25MPH+.

This all being said I am going to definitely tone down my aggressive driving and keep speed to the middle of streets which have little chance of having cars hit or pull in front of me.

I will not be speeding by parked cars anymore. I will also make sure to break more often at street crossings.

I am still glad I did not upgrade my controller yet and still operating on my original 30amp 48 volt controller. I might as well learn all these things at a slower speed.

ur lucky ur not hurt worse,
a friend of mine got doored, flipped over, and landed on his head (no helmet) and was in coma, and had to drop out of school...

and u wont get much sympathy from experienced cyclists.

riding door length away from parked cars is like rule 101 of riding in traffic...

take your needed space on the road and force cars to go around u.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicular_cycling

sk8norcal: do you know if the car door he hit had the window open? When I hit the car door the window was closed so I think most of my weight went into the car door window. This is the area that hurts the most, my shoulder and upper arm.

If I hit this car door with the window open I am thinking that I could have flipped over the car door and went flying more. Not sure if that would have been worse for me or not. If the window was open on the car I would not have my shoulder hurting now, but maybe I would have flew over and hit my head or something.

I'm going to wear my bike helmet more often. I was wearing a winter hat on instead because of the cold.

Johns comment makes sense. Don't ride in the place where a door can reach you.

I can't say my usual comment about find a safer route when really big cities are involved. In my small city, safer ( 25 mph speed) routes are easy to find. No way I ever ride in the dooring zone. Stopped doing that in about 1968. But it's easy to avoid it in a small town.

I think If the cops had been called they woulda ticketed you both.

Regarding your riding style, I get it. I rode worse on motorcycles for quite a few years. Really hard to controll that right hand. Finally, in a wish to survive, I gave up motorcycles for about 20 years. It's your decision how to do your risk taking. You won't stop, I didn't. I just took it to the ski slopes, where a mistake meant a big crash in soft snow most of the time. I just stopped involving hard asphalt and moving cars in my risky fun.

Let's recap shall we?

No helmet, no training or interest in same, riding faster than conditions allow, tendancy to daredevil, illegal machine, dunno rules of the road, leaving the scene.

This will turn out well, ya think?

I'm on a soapbox here but the point is that eBikes should make you a safer rider because you don't need to worry about momentum. Much easier to pause and allow others (even those in the wrong of way) to pass and become a stellar ambassador for our unique vehicles.

Hardly what I gather from your self reported exploits so far....

Edward,

You've got to think of riding on the streets as being in a war zone. Cars are like tanks; air bags, seat belts, good bumpers, etc make people feel they can't get hurt anymore and they drive accordingly. Think of e-motos as army jeeps. Think of riding an e-bike like you're prancing thru a war zone wearing a pink leotard. If you are going to prance thru a war zone in a leotard, you going to have to learn some serious guerrilla warfare survival tactics to survive. Riding close to parked cars equates to prancing thru a mine field; it's not going to turn out good.

I get tired of hearing riders whine about roads and cities not being e-biker friendly. Suck it up, pull up your panties, and learn some survival skills. If that is too tough, then get an e-moto. I get 10 times the respect on an e-moto than I ever got on an e-bike.

Man, I think you rode away with much less injury than expected.

Good luck,