The N.B. ebike law status fight ~~begins~~ is WON

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Lessss   10 MW

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The N.B. ebike law status fight ~~begins~~ is WON

Post by Lessss » Oct 10 2013 9:52am

Cops are ticketing ebike riders(well if you argue with them they are). They are saying the legislation has changed and they are now illegal unless they "look like a bike". There has been no such law passed that says this, no bylaw change, nothing passed in the legislature.

I need everyone that has an ebike or likes them or just thinks what they are doing is wrong to immediately complain to their N.B. MLA.

Every other province except PEI has passed legislation based on 1.21 federal definition of ebike. Again they are saying ebikes are legal only if they "look like a bike". There is no N.B. law on ebikes there is only 1.21 federal definition of an ebike. So if the "looks like a bike" ebikes are legal it is by 1.21 There is no law that says it must look like a bike, provincially or federally, nor is there a definition of what a "bicycle type frame is". There are some bike frames that are used for pedal bikes, ebikes, and motorbikes like the "Pi". So please contact your MLA and contact any other ebike owner and supporter you know.

If you are outside N.B. Canada then please contact the ministry of transport N.B. to complain.
http://www.gnb.ca/0113/sendmail-e.asp
Last edited by Lessss on Sep 03 2014 3:35pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The N.B. ebike law status fight begins

Post by liveforphysics » Oct 10 2013 3:08pm

Thank God for those brave cops willing to punish those who choose not to pilot 4000lbs poison emmiting cages that kill or mame living things they strike.
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Re: The N.B. ebike law status fight begins

Post by beast775 » Oct 10 2013 3:28pm

Were you going 60mph lessss :lol:
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Re: The N.B. ebike law status fight begins

Post by liveforphysics » Oct 10 2013 4:42pm

I think the problem stems from Canada not taking threats to it's oil seriously enough. I think a more 'merica approach is needed to 'resolve' this threat to oil consumption.

The homes of people choosing to use ebikes should be invaded and occupied by angst filled machine gun wielding youths freshly trained to murder in schools/camps with decades of perfecting the art. Now, these youth that invade your home shouldn't be viewed as a hostile action, they are there for your own good, and they shall be called peace-keepers. Why? Because if you don't train your youth to murder, who will? Just think of how that would ease tensions and create all sorts of peaceful resolutions. Just think if that money and mass killing done in the name of oil had been put towards something like solar power instead? Where would our demand for oil be heading then??

You need to be more considerate of the oil industry profit margins that fund the lobbyists who interface with lawmakers Lock. I think you may need your home and neighborhood invaded by roving groups of machine gun wielding murder-trained brainwashed youth Lock, you know, just to ease these tensions you may have about policy that threatens oil demand.

PS: Just wanted to add that it seems to help if the murder trained youth in your home also can't speak your native language so each encounter involves reciprocated scared shouting and confused machine gun waving. Preventing effective communication is a critical and time-honored peacekeeping technique.
Last edited by liveforphysics on Oct 10 2013 4:56pm, edited 1 time in total.
Each carcinogen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for cancer.

Each mutagen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for reproductive genetic defects in your children.

Each engine start sprays them into a shared atmosphere which includes beings not offered an opportunity to consent accepting these cancer experiences and defective genetics life experiences.

Every post is a free gift to the collective of minds composing the living bleeding edge of LEV development on our spaceship.

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Re: The N.B. ebike law status fight begins

Post by Harold in CR » Oct 10 2013 4:50pm

TOO FUNNY, Luke. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: The N.B. ebike law status fight begins

Post by liveforphysics » Oct 10 2013 4:51pm

Whoa. I just realized the ultimate 'Merica solution for your area. Cruise missiles. Rather than tickets being issued as punishment to people daring to transport themselves in an efficient manner, cruise missiles should be used instead. Yes yes, it's a few million dollars per shot, and it blows up who knows what around the ebike (they were likely all "insurgents" if they were that near to an ebike anyways, so it's not mass murder), but you will show your country takes a firm stance on continuing oil-company-driven corrupt policy.

That's how to enforce a policy effectively. Canada needs to up it's game.
Each carcinogen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for cancer.

Each mutagen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for reproductive genetic defects in your children.

Each engine start sprays them into a shared atmosphere which includes beings not offered an opportunity to consent accepting these cancer experiences and defective genetics life experiences.

Every post is a free gift to the collective of minds composing the living bleeding edge of LEV development on our spaceship.

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Re: The N.B. ebike law status fight begins

Post by nicobie » Oct 10 2013 7:05pm

liveforphysics wrote:Whoa. I just realized the ultimate 'Merica solution for your area. Cruise missiles. Rather than tickets being issued as punishment to people daring to transport themselves in an efficient manner, cruise missiles should be used instead. Yes yes, it's a few million dollars per shot, and it blows up who knows what around the ebike (they were likely all "insurgents" if they were that near to an ebike anyways, so it's not mass murder), but you will show your country takes a firm stance on continuing oil-company-driven corrupt policy.

That's how to enforce a policy effectively. Canada needs to up it's game.
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Re: The N.B. ebike law status fight begins

Post by liveforphysics » Oct 10 2013 9:08pm

nicobie wrote: :pancake:

mISTer personality!

I've got a nasty flu and fever right now. I think it enhances my anti-government sentiments a bit. :mrgreen:
Each carcinogen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for cancer.

Each mutagen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for reproductive genetic defects in your children.

Each engine start sprays them into a shared atmosphere which includes beings not offered an opportunity to consent accepting these cancer experiences and defective genetics life experiences.

Every post is a free gift to the collective of minds composing the living bleeding edge of LEV development on our spaceship.

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Re: The N.B. ebike law status fight begins

Post by grindz145 » Oct 10 2013 10:03pm

liveforphysics wrote:
nicobie wrote: :pancake:

mISTer personality!

I've got a nasty flu and fever right now. I think it enhances my anti-government sentiments a bit. :mrgreen:
Perfectly healthy... :pancake:

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Re: The N.B. ebike law status fight begins

Post by Lessss » Oct 10 2013 10:15pm

No, 32 km/hr
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Re: The N.B. ebike law status fight begins

Post by Lessss » Oct 15 2013 12:35pm

Update on the N.B. ebike situation....

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: RE: registration of electric bicycles
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2013 12:32:31 -0300
From: (removed)****** (DPS/MSP) <**********@gnb.ca>
To: ME

Good morning

In order to operate an Electric bike on a highway and the need to have it registered the bike would have to meet the following criteria and if not then it would be considered a bicycle and not have to registered.

46(1) No person shall drive a motor-driven cycle on a highway unless
(a) it weighs fifty-five kilograms or less, and a) dont le poids est de cinquante-cinq kilogrammes et moins; et
(b) it is equipped with b) qui sont munis
(i) wheels having wheel rims twenty-five centimetres or more in diameter;

M-17 Motor Vehicle Act 83-42

39
(ii) a seat or saddle being seventy centimetres above the level surface on which the vehicle stands;
(iii) a motor not capable of propelling the motordriven cycle at a speed in excess of fifty kilometres per hour;
(iv) at least one and not more than three headlamps displaying white light which shall comply with the requirements and limitations of the Act;
(v) at least one tail lamp which, when lighted, shall emit a red light plainly visible for a distance of one hundred and fifty metres to the rear; and
(vi) an automatic transmission. (vi) d’une transmission automatique.



********* ******* (name removed)
Licensing Officer / Agent des Licences et des permis
Motor Vehicle Branch / Direction des véhiculees à moteur


--------------
My reply....

My ebikes are
1) 55KG with a battery less without the battery - is this weight to be measured with or without the battery??
2) rims are 16 inches(40cm) and 14 inches (35cm)
3) limited by P.A.B section 1.21 to 32 KM/hr max speed
4) No transmission
5) has a headlight as all bicycles are required to have
6) seat height, I don't see how that applies as pedal 10 speed bikes have seats a good 120 cm above the ground Mine is measuring 85cm (34 inches)

So is mine a bicycle?

Also as a matter of law is section 1.21 CMVSA valid in N.B. or not?

---------------

Waiting on reply..
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Re: The N.B. ebike law status fight begins

Post by 100volts+ » Oct 15 2013 1:22pm

There are only about 43,000 automobile fatalities in the US a year. That is why ebikers must be cajoled into cars. Damn them.
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Re: The N.B. ebike law status fight begins

Post by dogman dan » Oct 15 2013 2:40pm

Yes, your bike is a bike, it's wheels are big enough. That's dumb about the wheel size, but clearly they are trying to get rid of the cheap electric scooter.

Likely the seat law means not less than x height. But as usual, they wrote it stupid. Makes it sound like your seat has to be x height exactly.

The transmission thing, that's a way of excluding most motorcycles. CVT's allowed though.

Likely they want 32 kph. The faster limit intended for the moped you do register? In fact, all that stuff in that section.

I think the cops will call your bike a bike anyway though, because it doesn't look like this.
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Re: The N.B. ebike law status fight begins

Post by Lessss » Oct 15 2013 3:50pm

Actually Dogman my take on it is this - - the wheels is to say that anything with rims 9 inches and under are not allowed on the road, the seat thing is also to say the seat needs to be 27 inches high to be on the road (keeps small kids off the road. Mopeds are allowed to go up to 65km/hr so 50-65 anything under that is a bicycle(??). The headlight thing means that it needs a light for night driving(as any bicycle does).

So basically it comes down to having a transmission being 55 kg or lighter and speed. Of course they couldn't just come out and say that.
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Re: The N.B. ebike law status fight begins

Post by dogman dan » Oct 16 2013 5:52am

Depends on how they interperet transmission. In my state, it's written just a bit different so what they mean is IF it has a transmission it has to be automatic. But one gear motorized bikes are ok. They can have a clutch, or a cvt, or need no clutch like an electric. But there is a pedals requirement for the motorized bike/ moped category, so pit bikes and mini bikes don't qualify for street use unless fully equipped and licensed as a motorcycle.

Your laws still need a few tweaks I think, or maybe the whole transmission thing doesn't even apply to the bike category. It's damn hard to dope out what the laws really mean in any state or country. Start by looking at the definitions, and then that helps determine which statutes apply to your type and which are for mopeds or motorcycles vs motorized bike.

It definitely looks to me like the weight and the lower speed definitely apply to the bike category. But I don't get the seat thing, no kmx trikes? Seems like a requirement that is not needed. Trying to sort out the pit bikes?

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Re: The N.B. ebike law status fight begins

Post by Lessss » Oct 16 2013 8:23am

basically they want bikes to be a minimum height (to keep small kids off the roads).

thinking on it further this interpretation removes the 500W limit and increases the speed allowed to 50 km/hr (31mph)

it does rule out low recumbent and bottom bracket cvt drive bikes
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Re: The N.B. ebike law status fight begins

Post by John in CR » Oct 16 2013 8:32am

It has a transmission in that the power is transmitted to the wheel. It is an automatic transmission because the motor power is a single speed and doesn't require any manual shifting of gears or clutch to go from stopped to full speed using motor power. It's a tranny, just not a multi-speed tranny as the term is typically used. It sounds like that part of the law was copied from those used to classify below 49cc scooters so they fall in the bicycle category. Those with mid-drives and motor power running through the derailleur are SOL.

Since it doesn't mention pedals, that electric scooter above is just fine as long as it's not too fast.

I don't get the seat thing. If they want to keep kids off the roads on ebikes, just put a minimum age. Any kind of electric velo is out the window along with most recumbents. That must have come from a cyclist having input.

The wheel size part essentially says wheel rims 10" or larger, so the point of that must be to exclude those stand up scooter types of vehicles even when they have a seat on them, as well as to keep mobility scooters off the roads in case someone builds one to come in under the max weight limit.

The transmission thing really needs to go though, since that technically excludes anything run through the gears and would exclude lots of perfectly valid non-hubmotor ebikes.

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Re: The N.B. ebike law status fight begins

Post by dogman dan » Oct 16 2013 11:11am

That's what I was thinking about the transmission rule. But I think it's very possible that section applies only to the faster mopeds, not the motorized bikes. That would exempt a GNG kit for example. A hubmotor is an automatic transmission, in that it has no rider actuated shifter. In a hubmotor, the bike gears don't count. They don't transmit motor power.

Very hard to say without a full copy of the entire statute. Many misinterpret because they don't start with a separate definitions section of the statute, and then read sections that don't apply to their vehicle. Or, they think they have one type, but actually have another.

It's near impossible to decipher this stuff, and I assure you the judge does no better at it.

By statute, the scooter look may be legal, but I bet it's who they are pulling over, the scooter looking ebike.

Every day I thank god they aren't working on a new ebike law in my state.

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Re: The N.B. ebike law status fight begins

Post by Dlogic » Oct 16 2013 11:20am

To avoid any trouble in the future my latest build will be inspected by the german TÜV tomorrow. The goal is to find out if this bike can be made street legal. If yes, a quick release clamp will be made for the license plate. Once on the bikeway i´ll just remove it and sneak past those cars stuck in traffic. :mrgreen:

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Re: The N.B. ebike law status fight begins

Post by Lessss » Oct 18 2013 5:43pm

Looking at this several days later they have basically given me the definition of motor driven cycle. According to that all ebikes are motor driven cycles requiring registration but they are not saying that. They are still saying ebikes that look like bikes don't.
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Re: The N.B. ebike law status fight begins

Post by LSBW » Oct 18 2013 6:25pm

An hour ago I passed right in front of the cop, sitting at the gas station, trying to make left turn.
I was following car, so at least 45 km/h, as soon as I passed him, I realized it, but it was too late even for a clown pedaling.
Looked back, zero reaction, like I didn't even exist.
LOL, let's keep it this way for now.
Already working on my next commuter, 2 x Q100 single speed bike, with everything else in the backpack.
Good luck to the cops trying to figure out if it's drum brakes or 3 speed hub in there :)

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Re: The N.B. ebike law status fight begins

Post by Ch00paKabrA » Oct 18 2013 8:52pm

Yeah, New Jersey has some crazy laws too. I was only bothered one time by a cop and not since. Mine looks like a bike though. It is reasonably stealthy. But today I forgot to pedal and zipped by a cop and got no reaction either. I think they are just after those scooter looking things with pedals.

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Re: The N.B. ebike law status fight begins

Post by Lessss » Nov 19 2013 11:15am

Plea entered this morning, court date set for June 19.
Judge commented it will be an interesting trial.
Cops were laughing in the back row until a family member gave them the stink eye.

Prosecutor said it was the first she has heard of the N.B. ebike policy.

-----
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Re: The N.B. ebike law status fight begins

Post by Lessss » Jan 24 2014 2:20pm

Yet another update.

It looks like N.B. will be changing the ebike policy yet again.

They are dropping the "looks like a bike" thing entirely.

1) Who authored this ebike policy?

The Manager of Vehicle Safety.

2) What committee/government body adopted/passed this policy?

The Registrar of Motor Vehicles.

3) Are ebikes that do not require registration allowed to use cargo trailers?

Yes.

4) When was the policy officially adopted?

December 2013

5) When was this policy publicly announced?

This policy has not been publicly announced. The planned communication is set for spring when electric cycles are used. This is so that it is fresh in the mind of staff who must administer it and the public who it will affect.

6) Where/how was this policy publicly announced?

This policy will be communicated via the Public Safety website.

7) What is the maximum wattage of motor allowed ( [a] under 500W or 500W and under) for ebikes that don't require registration? (most ebike motors in Canada are stamped 500W so this is really important)

500 and under.

8) What is the maximum weight allowed for an ebike that doesn't require registration if any(with/without the battery)?

Not applicable.

9) What is the maximum and minimum height or length allowed for an ebike that doesn't require registration if any?

Not applicable.

10) What are the technical specifications of the frames allowed to be used by ebikes that don't require registration(and saying "looks like" a bike is UNACCEPTABLE)? What "looks like" something to one officer or member of the public won't be true for the next. I need measurable technical specifications.

Not applicable.

The definition of a bicycle in the Motor Vehicle Act states: means every device propelled by human power upon which any person may ride, having two tandem wheels.

11) What are the maximum and minimum rim sizes allowed for an ebike that doesn't require registration if any?

Not applicable.

12) Do ebikes, that don't require registration, require a motorcycle helmet or only a bicycle helmet?

Bicycle helmet.

13) [a] Is this policy the same as the one in 2006 or have changes been made? If changes have been made then what changes and [c] when and how were those changes made public?

The policy is not the same as the previous policy. For your reference the current policy is attached and is the same as the information provided to you by Mr. Killam on January 17, 2014. Please see answer to your questions numbered 4, 5 and 6 above.

14) Is there a minimum age requirement for ebikes that do not require registration?

No.

15) Do ebikes that don't require registration require turn signals or stop lights or will a night headlight and rear reflectors suffice?

The following are required:

A lamp on the front that emits a white light visible from a distance of at least one hundred and fifty metres.

A red reflector on the rear, visible from one hundred metres. In addition a red light visible from one hundred and fifty metres is also permitted.

A bell or other device capable of giving an audible signal for a distance of at least 30 metres. Whistle or sirens are not permitted.

Brakes adequate to control the movement of the vehicle and to stop and hold it.

16) Does a DUI conviction preclude driving an ebike that does not require registration?

Impaired driving laws, including the Criminal Code of Canada, apply.

--------

Man this entire thing is so behind closed doors star chamber.

Now to get the Crown to drop the ticket.
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Re: The N.B. ebike law status fight begins

Post by Lessss » Jan 24 2014 6:47pm

To be allowed on the road it needs wheel rims larger than 9 inches, have a headlight for night, a seat at least 27 inches off the ground.

New Brunswick’s Policy on Electric Motor Driven Cycles and Electric Bicycles

The Registrar will permit an electric motor driven cycle to be registered if it meets Canada Motor Vehicle Safety Standards (CMVSS) as a Limited Speed Motorcycle, or Scooter as is done with gas powered motor driven cycles. If the vehicle was manufactured after 1988 it will bear a compliance label stating that it meets these standards. The operator will be subject to all the requirements placed on operators of motor driven cycles.

If the vehicle is able to powered by human force and has a motor less than 500W, and the motor is not capable of assisting when the vehicle is traveling at a speed greater than 32km/h then it can be considered a bicycle and all the requirements placed on bicyclists are applicable.

It is important to note that if a vehicle has an electric motor greater than 500 watts and is capable of powering the vehicle when traveling at a speed greater than 32 km/h and it does not have a CMVSS compliance label it cannot be registered unless the owner can prove, by having the vehicle certified by an engineer, that it is safe for operation on NB highways. Also, not all vehicles are suitable for operation on NB highways and it could be that the vehicle in question may not be a motor driven cycle or a bicycle and cannot be operated on the highway at all.


Power Assisted Bicycle Label:

Manufacturers of e-bikes must permanently affix a label, in a conspicuous location,stating in both official languages that the vehicle is a power-assisted bicycle as defined in the regulations under the federal Motor Vehicle Safety Act. Homemade e-bikes will not have this label.

--------

NOTE 1: The previous version of the policy had a section on it needing to "look like a bike" or a "bike style frame" but never defined what those were. That has been dropped and is no longer part of the new policy.

NOTE 2: The top speed of the bike if propelled by human power is the posted speed limit, but the motor is only allowed to get you up to and keep you at 32 km/hr. If the posted limit is under 32 then the posted limit is the limit allowed.

NOTE 3: There is no maximum weight limit.

NOTE 4: Ebikes are allowed to use cargo trailers/kid trailers.

NOTE 5: There is no minimum age set.
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