Differences between the old and new version of phpbb & proposed changes

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Re: Differences between the old and new version of phpbb & proposed changes

Post by neptronix » Nov 23, 2017 8:38 am

macribs wrote:
Nov 23, 2017 3:11 am
Don't know what happen'd with the forum upgrade but it seems this version is soo slow. So slow that we are closing in on an actual deal breaker.
Page load is like 30-40 seconds and have been like that for days. Does not matter if I am on Fiber, wifi or 4G still slow. Both on Pc, phone, and tablet. Tried various browsers and forum is still slow. And it is only this forum that is slow. I think this needs to be looked at.
Here is the thread about the technical issues and where they're at:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=91483
macribs wrote:
Nov 23, 2017 3:11 am
Also some of the bookmarks I pointing to ES, just sort of work now. All bookmarks made before forum upgrade takes me to the forum root or to the correct sub forum but suddenly I am logged out. Bookmark breaks log-in. Used ID token in url? Why?
Yes, that's a known side effect of newer browsers handling http:// and https:// as separate sites, thus thinking you're logged into one but not another. Make sure to update your bookmarks to start with https://endless-sphere.com/. Next year, we will have a fix for that.
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Re: Differences between the old and new version of phpbb & proposed changes

Post by macribs » Nov 23, 2017 9:39 am

Ah I should have noticed the https vs http. Thanks for bringing that to my attention.
I will edit bookmarks accordingly.

Almost 2 decades ago I was into open source cms's and I remember we used various tricks to keep server alert, pinging 4 times a minute etc. Cos back then most of our problems where hardware related. Slow connection, and low budget servers. Man there where a mile long sheets of quick "fixes", workaround and tricks to keep things as responsive as possible. Due to bandwidth restrictions we had to have slick code, no style in the code, smallest possible css. At least you don't have to deal with that crap anymore? Even IE understands and deals with css the correct way by now I guess?

When this is all sorted I think we will have a much faster and more responsive forum then we used to have with the old framework. Btw great job keeping the down time low last week. Nice work.

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Re: Notes on the differences between the old and new version of phpbb

Post by izeman » Nov 23, 2017 11:04 am

Dauntless wrote:
Nov 19, 2017 1:53 am
neptronix wrote:
Nov 18, 2017 1:35 am
Dauntless wrote:
Nov 18, 2017 1:09 am
Wow, you added a border. That's what this upgrade was for?

The good news being it's still mostly the old board, which always suited me just fine.
How about you not troll me on my thread any further? thanks.
Oh relax, I made a perfectly good point with that.

All these other problems everyone is mentioning I haven't seen, though it's early on. My balky AT&T dsl isn't having extra trouble. So it's still mostly the old board. Happy ending.
i normally don't (fully) agree with dauntless' comments, and his post was most probably too rude, but i see the point: the frame takes away needed space. is it needed / mandatory? or is it just for looks.
beside that issue: i'm happy the ES is back after 2 days and i like the new look. and neptronix: you can never make everyone happy. that's a fact. and another fact is, that more people will "complain" than "congratulate".
thank you for your work!

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Re: Differences between the old and new version of phpbb & proposed changes

Post by Dauntless » Nov 23, 2017 3:51 pm

I could make a point about you have an interesting definition of rude and not rude, but I didn't even complain. I didn't even say I had a problem with the border, just it's the biggest difference to me. I made the point that (3rd time now) it's STILL THE SAME, which is a good thing. Some things that aren't a good thing have nothing to do with the update, so that won't solve the problem. Ah well.
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Re: Differences between the old and new version of phpbb & proposed changes

Post by wturber » Nov 24, 2017 1:17 pm

Dauntless wrote:
Nov 23, 2017 3:51 pm
I could make a point about you have an interesting definition of rude and not rude, but I didn't even complain.
Well, sarcasm can be seen to be simply a humorous jab, or rude. It just depends on the people, situation, and sometimes just the moment it was read.
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Re: Differences between the old and new version of phpbb & proposed changes

Post by neptronix » Nov 24, 2017 10:33 pm

Well, i had just spent the last 36 hours of my life getting this transition done.. either babysitting it, or actively working on it in a linux console. Before that, i had spent weeks hashing out what would be done.. before that, i had done this entire process once before as a test run... this job was months in the making.

The truth is that ES was running on an older operating system that no longer had security patches. We were running a version of phpbb that was 7 years old. It was running on a version of php and mysql that were also out of date. Our system was a sitting duck. On top of this, our database and file system are rather large, and so transitioning that huge amount of data was a big problem all it's own.. no wonder nobody else was raising their hands for this job. :lol: this was actually a larger project than some of the ones i do for a living as a web developer.

So your comment really got under my skin in a bad way, considering how much work i just did, and how much more i have to do.
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Re: Differences between the old and new version of phpbb & proposed changes

Post by neptronix » Nov 25, 2017 7:17 am

On a more positive note, i spent quite a bit of time researching phpbb modifications tonight.. finding what could spice up this system.
Will be testing some of this stuff off site, and some time next week plan to add some enhancements that will make this feel like a real upgrade. :)
My first major build: 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
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Re: Differences between the old and new version of phpbb & proposed changes

Post by bigmoose » Nov 25, 2017 8:34 am

nep, thanks for stepping up to this huuuuuge job! As you said, without the move to modern servers, operating systems, and bbs software we were a sitting duck... one hacker away from loosing everything.

Thanks again!
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Re: Differences between the old and new version of phpbb & proposed changes

Post by teklektik » Nov 25, 2017 9:43 am

Hmmm - Can we please lose the new "Quick Reply" pane?
The functionality is redundant and just sucks up screen real estate.
There are many bew features to investigate and add, but this seems pointless chrome that detracts from core functionality.
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Re: Differences between the old and new version of phpbb & proposed changes

Post by neptronix » Nov 25, 2017 9:46 am

teklektik wrote:
Nov 25, 2017 9:43 am
Hmmm - Can we please lose the new "Quick Reply" pane?
The functionality is redundant and just sucks up screen real estate.
There are many bew features to investigate and add, but this seems pointless chrome that detracts from core functionality.
You're right. Done. ( i may have enabled it mistakenly )
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Re: Differences between the old and new version of phpbb & proposed changes

Post by teklektik » Nov 25, 2017 9:51 am

Thanks nep!

And if you haven't gotten enough attaboys:
Many thanks for this enormous undertaking - a generous gift of time and expertise that will benefit us all for years to come!
:D :D :D
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Re: Differences between the old and new version of phpbb & proposed changes

Post by macribs » Nov 25, 2017 11:49 am

What he just said. 1+

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Re: Differences between the old and new version of phpbb & proposed changes

Post by wturber » Nov 25, 2017 9:19 pm

neptronix wrote:
Nov 25, 2017 7:17 am
On a more positive note, i spent quite a bit of time researching phpbb modifications tonight.. finding what could spice up this system.
Will be testing some of this stuff off site, and some time next week plan to add some enhancements that will make this feel like a real upgrade. :)
On another positive note, the system is much more responsive lately.
"Commuter - DC Booster"
Iron Horse 3.0 hardtail - 48V / 1000W / 470rpm generic Chinese DD Hub motor (ebay)
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53T/42T Sakae Road cranks - 30mph+ on flats
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Re: Differences between the old and new version of phpbb & proposed changes

Post by neptronix » Nov 25, 2017 10:04 pm

Thanks fellas :)

Anyway, next week i will start working on testing some new features to roll out. I am slammed for the rest of the week because i'm now working two jobs and catching up on them after all this ES craziness!

But here is what's planned.. aka the 'easy list':

1) Basic emoji support.
2) Removing the subject from replies in thread views after the first post ( really.. this is just a waste of space that clutters things up )
3) A way to actually contact the administrator.
4) Images become a thumbnail when you are quoting someone ( screen space saver.. especially for mobile )
5) Installation of the stop forum spam extension.. hopefully this will help the moderators.
6) 'Share on' extension, which helps social media services like facebook, twitter, and reddit show better previews of our content. ( I am looking forward to this very much. )

After that will come the more difficult things, which require me potentially writing some phpbb extensions, or modifying existing ones..

1) Distinct page links for 'about us', 'the rules', 'wiki', etc instead of having them as sticky posts or scattered about the site. These would show up in mobile mode.
2) Original poster icon on left of the view topic list..
3) Reactions.. aka likes, dislikes, etc.. although this is a big change i'd have to pass by moderators/justin/etc. I still want to test the functionality though.
4) Forum category icons... another one we'll have to hash out before deploying.

There's also a third phase.. but i'll talk about that later on. :)
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The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w on a Turner O2 full suspension.
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Re: Differences between the old and new version of phpbb & proposed changes

Post by macribs » Nov 25, 2017 10:24 pm

Like buttons. Nice. That one is very much welcome. Also thumbs for quoted posts very nice, but I even think there is a function in phpBB to turn off images altogether in quoted posts, you might wanna look into that as well, as that will make for even better user experience on smaller devices like tablets, mobile phones etc.

Regarding the subject line in threads, if used correctly ie for a minor/major digression from topic the subject line inside a thread is nice. Otherwise as you said it is stealing screen real estate.

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Re: Differences between the old and new version of phpbb & proposed changes

Post by fechter » Nov 26, 2017 1:25 pm

But here is what's planned.. aka the 'easy list':

1) Basic emoji support.
2) Removing the subject from replies in thread views after the first post ( really.. this is just a waste of space that clutters things up )
3) A way to actually contact the administrator.
4) Images become a thumbnail when you are quoting someone ( screen space saver.. especially for mobile )
5) Installation of the stop forum spam extension.. hopefully this will help the moderators.
6) 'Share on' extension, which helps social media services like facebook, twitter, and reddit show better previews of our content. ( I am looking forward to this very much. )

After that will come the more difficult things, which require me potentially writing some phpbb extensions, or modifying existing ones..

1) Distinct page links for 'about us', 'the rules', 'wiki', etc instead of having them as sticky posts or scattered about the site. These would show up in mobile mode.
2) Original poster icon on left of the view topic list..
3) Reactions.. aka likes, dislikes, etc.. although this is a big change i'd have to pass by moderators/justin/etc. I still want to test the functionality though.
4) Forum category icons... another one we'll have to hash out before deploying.

It will be great if we can do these. The reactions thing (like, dislike, etc.) would be especially useful.

I hate to add to the list, but another great thing would be to have a Quick Links at the bottom of the page or at least a "back to top" button. I hate having to scroll up every time.

Also someday would like to have a nicer picture on the main page. I think there were some candidates a long time ago, but might be nice to revisit that idea and see if we can at least have a cool picture that's somewhat related to electric personal transportation.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

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Re: Differences between the old and new version of phpbb & proposed changes

Post by amberwolf » Nov 27, 2017 1:11 am

The large round uparrow icon at hte lower right of every post is a backtotop button.

wish i had teh option to get rid of it. :/


At one time there was supposed to be someone writing a scripted page that would pick from a set of images and rotate randomly thru them for the "front page", or maybe it was going to be a bunch of small versions that built the letters of the site name, or something like that.

I can't remember and can't find the thread.

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Re: Differences between the old and new version of phpbb & proposed changes

Post by danielrlee » Nov 27, 2017 3:50 am

amberwolf wrote:
Nov 27, 2017 1:11 am
The large round uparrow icon at hte lower right of every post is a backtotop button.
I cannot see this 'back to top' button while using a mobile browser (Android Chrome).

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Re: Differences between the old and new version of phpbb & proposed changes

Post by mark5 » Nov 27, 2017 9:15 am

danielrlee wrote:
Nov 27, 2017 3:50 am
amberwolf wrote:
Nov 27, 2017 1:11 am
The large round uparrow icon at hte lower right of every post is a backtotop button.
I cannot see this 'back to top' button while using a mobile browser (Android Chrome).
I can't see it either. Tried with old iPad Safari and recent desktop Chrome & Firefox.

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Re: Differences between the old and new version of phpbb & proposed changes

Post by fechter » Nov 27, 2017 9:24 am

Invisible here too. Maybe it's only in a certain theme.
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Re: Differences between the old and new version of phpbb & proposed changes

Post by Alan B » Nov 27, 2017 10:04 am

fechter wrote:
Nov 27, 2017 9:24 am
Invisible here too. Maybe it's only in a certain theme.
The back to top arrow button is in the prosilver theme, at least.

Adding the shortcuts at the bottom of the page would be useful.

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Re: Differences between the old and new version of phpbb & proposed changes

Post by fechter » Nov 27, 2017 11:02 am

Alan B wrote:
Nov 27, 2017 10:04 am
fechter wrote:
Nov 27, 2017 9:24 am
Invisible here too. Maybe it's only in a certain theme.
The back to top arrow button is in the prosilver theme, at least.

Adding the shortcuts at the bottom of the page would be useful.
I tried switching to prosilver and the back to top button is there. But the font is too small and hard for me to read.
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Re: Differences between the old and new version of phpbb & proposed changes

Post by teklektik » Nov 27, 2017 1:24 pm

Tthree wishes (at least in prosilver):
  1. Clicking on a thread title in "Active Topics" page actually takes you to the bottom of the last page (the new 'active' post) instead of the top of the first page of the thread - which is really as far from the active post as possible...

    ActivePost.png
    ActivePost.png (12.48 KiB) Viewed 221 times
  2. And/or as a poor second, a button at the page top that takes you to the bottom - perhaps in the top nav bar next to the other icons on the right - (typically so the latest post on that page is readily accessible). Could also be a second round 'down' button in each post beside/below the round 'up' button.
  3. The top buttons should also appear in the mobile prosilver theme. This is tiny and the small bit of real estate seems a fair tradeoff to avoid annoying flicking and gesturing to get to the bottom (or top, if #2 gets done).
I know these a not really cool new features, but I think they go directly to ease of use in spite of their mundane nature.
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Re: Differences between the old and new version of phpbb & proposed changes

Post by amberwolf » Nov 27, 2017 8:47 pm

teklektik wrote:
Nov 27, 2017 1:24 pm
[*]Clicking on a thread title in "Active Topics" page actually takes you to the bottom of the last page (the new 'active' post) instead of the top of the first page of the thread - which is really as far from the active post as possible...
Clicking the icon with the red star (or other red icon; it's a red page in SE_Square_Left) should take you to the first unread post in the thread.

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Re: Differences between the old and new version of phpbb & proposed changes

Post by teklektik » Nov 28, 2017 9:52 am

amberwolf wrote:
Nov 27, 2017 8:47 pm
Clicking the icon with the red star (or other red icon; it's a red page in SE_Square_Left) should take you to the first unread post in the thread.
That only works on the desktop version, not on the mobile version - which if anything would benefit more from direct links to avoid squinting and flicking.

Beyond that, if the new post is on a thread unvisited before, or at least for some time, the 'last read' feature sends you to the beginning or middle of the thread - not the most recent post. The desktop version responds identically ("go to last read post") for both the leftmost round icon and the little red "unread" square icon - sort of a wast of space with redundant functionality. If anything, make either the big round one or the Thread Title Text always go to the end then there are three unique and useful options for everybody. I was trying to stay away from fiddling the leftmost round icon since it's got more programming behind it with the "unread" logic and changing the icon between "unread" and "all read".

As an aside - a problem with the "unread posts" concept is that the page and "unread icons" are not refreshed if you jump to a post, eyeball it, and use 'return' to go back to the "Active Topics" list. The browser will typically bring up the cached "Active Topics" page and so the post you just read still looks "unread". Since there is no shortcut on thread pages to return by direct link to the "Active Topics" page, the only options are "go back" (easy) or some other explicit shortcut (not so easy). This has nothing to do with the "go to end" request - it's just a comment about the general shortfall of the "unread posts" functionality - it just doesn't always work that well in the context of browser operation, the theme, and a common Use Case because browser caching is intrinsically stateful but the underlying concept of the "unread post" feature is to change state.
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