No energy or much higher rates to charge our batteries?

So with all the GW BS coming down on us, we are now going to be faced with a couple of possibilities. We are either going to have our power rationed to us or it will be quite a bit more expensive. Here is a article about Australian Energy problems.

“What is at stake here is the future of the energy market. If nothing is done, power stations are likely to be bankrupted, and if they closed, then there would be problems with electricity supply, or more likely governments would have to step in to take them over, and that would unravel the last 10 years’ hard work to set up a national electricity market.”

http://anhonestclimatedebate.wordpress.com/

Power plants, in order to meet GW pollution deadlines, would have to be replaced early, upgraded or at the expense of someone else picking up the CO2 problems. All of this is going to be very expensive and there will probably be a lot of growing pains.

Here in San Diego they are installing smart meters. These meters will be able to communicate with your appliances. Can you say, "What the hell happened to the AC and my bigscreen, a government ordered shut down again because of rationing"? Think that is far fetched? No, rationing is already happening!

It's going to be interesting to see all the people abandoning the GW belief ship when it comes to actually paying more or cutting back.

Deron.

i vote for rationing. immediately.

100 Wh/person/mth. let the consumer decide if they want big screen or refrigerator, no electricity for hot water or AC, period.....

electric or gas dryers should be outlawed, clotheslines re instituted, effective immediately,.

hair and hand dryers, streetlights, and unused business lighting eliminated.

then the 50% of the grid power available could go into the PHEV fleet, with CNG replacing gasoline for the primary ICE fuel source.

should take 4 years for the transition, raise gas taxes to $4/gallon to pay for it, effective immediately.

put people to work installing solar hot water heaters on every house, insulating older homes and replacing windows.

why waste 100's of billions of dollars building more highways, or bridges, we need to make the transition already, rather than stalling on more redneck ignorance.

bush is gone, its over for you guys, scientists can go back to doing research on stem cells, they cannot use guvment money to promote stupid stuff like abstinence, can't make the guvment scientists lie about, and deny global warming and CO2 anymore. Obama rules. except maybe texas and louisiana and mississippi.

I hope it all happens to you first, and all that oppose the GW religionists face the facism last.

Ya'll comon down here and live with no AC. Bet you don't last 48 hours. Building poorly insulated houses ought to be outlawed though.

dnmun said:

i vote for rationing. immediately.

100 Wh/person/mth. let the consumer decide if they want big screen or refrigerator, no electricity for hot water or AC, period.....

electric or gas dryers should be outlawed, clotheslines re instituted, effective immediately,.

hair and hand dryers, streetlights, and unused business lighting eliminated.

then the 50% of the grid power available could go into the PHEV fleet, with CNG replacing gasoline for the primary ICE fuel source.

should take 4 years for the transition, raise gas taxes to $4/gallon to pay for it, effective immediately.

put people to work installing solar hot water heaters on every house, insulating older homes and replacing windows.

why waste 100's of billions of dollars building more highways, or bridges, we need to make the transition already, rather than stalling on more redneck ignorance.

bush is gone, its over for you guys, scientists can go back to doing research on stem cells, they cannot use guvment money to promote stupid stuff like abstinence, can't make the guvment scientists lie about, and deny global warming and CO2 anymore. Obama rules. except maybe texas and louisiana and mississippi.

Click to expand...

Ouch! Probly a few people would not like some of those wonderful ideas. You need to have a few more projects going to much time on your hands? ;^) PM me and let me know how the bike is coming along. You going with the dual winding mod?

sorry dogman, when i grew up we never had AC. just an attic fan. never had air conditioning in a car either. 110o, 100% humidity, south end of louisiana.

never had 4 wheel drive to go in the woods either.my dad was a forester there and always drove 2 wheel rear drive '56 chevy belair, he never got stuck, or ever let on that he had. you learn how to drive in mud that way.

we hauled 200 gallons of diesel in the back of the pickup for the dozers and motor patrols, always 2 wheel drive truck. cheapest 6 cylinder chevy offered, company truck for the road crew. we had to cut the roads into the woods to get the timber out when it was harvested at the end of the lease.

i know mud, imagine a dozer buried to the top of the tracks in mud, and the clutches have burned out, and it is your job to dig down underneath to reach the clutch access ports under the dozer so we could replace the burned out clutches, 16 years old, i know mud.

so hot i once passed out from heat while working on the hardwood chain at the mill. makes you respect the real men who do work. imagine chopping cane, hold stalks 12 ' tall in one hand weighing 60lbs, and chopping the cane off at the base with a machete in the other hand. dodging snakes all day, 14hours, black men did it.

now what was sunny san diego whining about? oh yeh, big screen TV. wanna side of playstation with that too?

Yup, no ac on the job for me either since 1976. Many a brain frying slab where we busted ass the first day to get one wall up where we could at least take a water break with a sliver of shade. Hottest jobsite I ever worked was 140 F. Ambulances were called for a few guys. That's why I'm not giving up the AC after I get home! I get enough heat all day, so I demand one room of AC when I get home.

dnmun said:

i vote for rationing. immediately.

100 Wh/person/mth. let the consumer decide if they want big screen or refrigerator, no electricity for hot water or AC, period...

Click to expand...

Uh...was that supposed to be 100kWh/person/mth? Because I go through 100Wh in about 5 minutes...or less than 4 miles...

In any case, if they actually did start rationing, you'd see a 1kW solar panel on my roof within a week. And I'd, uh...be playing with my Wii a lot more...

Link said:

dnmun said:

i vote for rationing. immediately.

100 Wh/person/mth. let the consumer decide if they want big screen or refrigerator, no electricity for hot water or AC, period...

Click to expand...

Uh...was that supposed to be 100kWh/person/mth? Because I go through 100Wh in about 5 minutes...or less than 4 miles...

In any case, if they actually did start rationing, you'd see a 1kW solar panel on my roof within a week. And I'd, uh...be playing with my Wii a lot more...

Click to expand...

Where would you be able to find a affordable 1KW system with rationing going on? A 1KW system right now would cost you upwards of $10,000.00. How much would that cost explode if there was rationing going on? You would probably end up on a waiting list with millions of other people with the same idea. Costs of a system might come down after a while, after the solar industry caught up, but what if they took a page out of big oils book? Try to restrict supply and gouge the consumer, in fact I would not doubt if big oil would buy up rights to solar technology/manufacturing and get at us that way.

Maybe the smart people are the ones installing solar now, before the power rationing begins.

Deron.

dnmun said:

i vote for rationing. immediately.

100 Wh/person/mth. let the consumer decide if they want big screen or refrigerator, no electricity for hot water or AC, period.....

electric or gas dryers should be outlawed, clotheslines re instituted, effective immediately,.

hair and hand dryers, streetlights, and unused business lighting eliminated.

then the 50% of the grid power available could go into the PHEV fleet, with CNG replacing gasoline for the primary ICE fuel source.

should take 4 years for the transition, raise gas taxes to $4/gallon to pay for it, effective immediately.

put people to work installing solar hot water heaters on every house, insulating older homes and replacing windows.

why waste 100's of billions of dollars building more highways, or bridges, we need to make the transition already, rather than stalling on more redneck ignorance.

bush is gone, its over for you guys, scientists can go back to doing research on stem cells, they cannot use guvment money to promote stupid stuff like abstinence, can't make the guvment scientists lie about, and deny global warming and CO2 anymore. Obama rules. except maybe texas and louisiana and mississippi.

Click to expand...

So you in all your wisdom and conservation have already done all these things?

"100 Wh/person/mth."

Get a clue.

Deron.

deronmoped said:

Link said:

dnmun said:

i vote for rationing. immediately.

100 Wh/person/mth. let the consumer decide if they want big screen or refrigerator, no electricity for hot water or AC, period...

Click to expand...

Uh...was that supposed to be 100kWh/person/mth? Because I go through 100Wh in about 5 minutes...or less than 4 miles...

In any case, if they actually did start rationing, you'd see a 1kW solar panel on my roof within a week. And I'd, uh...be playing with my Wii a lot more...

Click to expand...

Where would you be able to find a affordable 1KW system with rationing going on? A 1KW system right now would cost you upwards of $10,000.00. How much would that cost explode if there was rationing going on? You would probably end up on a waiting list with millions of other people with the same idea. Costs of a system might come down after a while, after the solar industry caught up, but what if they took a page out of big oils book? Try to restrict supply and gouge the consumer, in fact I would not doubt if big oil would buy up rights to solar technology/manufacturing and get at us that way.

Maybe the smart people are the ones installing solar now, before the power rationing begins.

Deron.

Click to expand...

Oh, and to expand on this further, photovoltaic can be very energy intensive to manufacture, where is the electricity going to come from if it's already being rationed?

Deron.

deronmoped said:

Where would you be able to find a affordable 1KW system with rationing going on? A 1KW system right now would cost you upwards of $10,000.00. How much would that cost explode if there was rationing going on? You would probably end up on a waiting list with millions of other people with the same idea. Costs of a system might come down after a while, after the solar industry caught up, but what if they took a page out of big oils book? Try to restrict supply and gouge the consumer, in fact I would not doubt if big oil would buy up rights to solar technology/manufacturing and get at us that way.

Maybe the smart people are the ones installing solar now, before the power rationing begins.

Deron.

Click to expand...

Black market?

Some of the third world is already in that situation now. They schedule everything for the few hours the grid will be on in their part of town. Mostly that is not a supply of energy problem as generation capacity shortage.

deronmoped said:

Oh, and to expand on this further, photovoltaic can be very energy intensive to manufacture, where is the electricity going to come from if it's already being rationed?

Click to expand...

Net gain (puns aside). Get the siphon started, then let it flow.

Source: Homepower magazine article in PDF (2.7MB)
http://www.homepower.com/view/?file=HP127_pg32_Sanchez

I agree with you, you get the photovoltaic installations installed in large numbers and the power they produce would more then compensate for the continuing of the manufacturing of them.

What I'm getting at is a huge government induced shortage of power talked about in the article. If over the course of a couple of years, they are shutting down or cutting back on power production and it leads to rationing, where is the extra power all of a sudden going to come from for generating the power to make photovoltaic parts? If there is power rationing going on, people in large numbers will rush to alternatives, creating all kinds of shortages in alternative energy technology. Heck, they do not even have to cut back on power production to induce shortages, just not installing more power plants will do the same thing with the way people keep using more and more power.

Maybe dnmun can get enough people to use 100 Wh/person/mth and that will solve the problem.


What makes it even worse is, we have a certain infrastructure in place right now, all designed around what we are using in the way of energy. They are talking about rationing of generated electrical power and at the same time, they want us to transfer more of our power use to generated electrical power. From the burning of fuel in our cars to charging EV's off the grid. What, are they just completely out of their minds? How are we supposed to be able to switch over to EV's when they are talking about cuts in generating capacity? They talk about off peak charging, but that would not take into account the bazillions of EV's that would have to be charged during the day.

The awesome lifestyles we have depend on abundant cheap energy. Even without all the GW BS being implemented we are experiencing shortages in electrical power, are people ready to live their lives according to dnmun?

Back to the "Carter rationing years"? "Honey, you have to shut off the TV, dryer, washer, dishwasher and most of the lights, because I need to charge the car so I can get to work tomorrow".

Deron.

Back to the "Carter rationing years"? "Honey, you have to shut off the TV, dryer, washer, dishwasher and most of the lights, because I need to charge the car so I can get to work tomorrow".

Click to expand...

Solution: a Model T with its own, OEM magneto and its hand crank.

Solar panels energy intensive to make: can we get the energy to make them from solar power?
Here in South Florida, the sunlight heats a square yard of surface with about one thousand Watts.

Solar water heating, also practical: homes built here in the middle thirties still (some of them) sport their original
solar water heating systems: copper pipe U's under glass in sheet metal pans, painted black, glass covered,
several banks of them, thermosyphon circulation to the main holding tank. Ours worked supremely well;
enough hot water for a family of five, and enough supply in the storage tank to tide you over shady days;
otherwise, flip a switch for an electric element boost.

I sure would like photovoltaic panels someday. Our area is nearly ideal for them.

Reid Welch said:

Here in South Florida, the sunlight heats a square yard of surface with about one thousand Watts.

Click to expand...

You must be kidding me! Just load 40% efficient sun panels into the trailer with two square yards of it and you have yourself a nice 800 watt 25 mph ride. (Of course, have a little battery for the cloudy days, shaded areas, and angle-defeating hills.)

swbluto said:

Just load 40% efficient sun panels

Click to expand...

There's the problem! It would be nice if they could get the efficiency up to 40%!