Suzuki GT50 Conversion

[dumbass]

OK, so would i be able to use 4 of these for my application? http://elitepowersolutions.com/products/product_info.php?cPath=16&products_id=74
Using this charger to charge them?http://www.newkellycontroller.com/product_info.php?cPath=31_50&products_id=486
That is the charger that i have already bought!!
Help would be great! Thanks!

Damn, I thought you said you were on a budget!! That charger is 200 bucks + shipping........That's not "on a budget".

What is the amp rating on the controller you are using? These cells are rated for 20ah at a 2C discharge. That means they can discharge 40a cont. They have a max charge rating of 3C. That means you can charge at a max of 60a. I'm not going to try to be an expert on chargers but based on the specs I would say that charger fits the requirements of the cells. Just remember there is no BMS between the charger and the cells. This can be a problem in certain situations. However, as I told you I and many others have been doing it with no problems. But you do need to manually monitor the charge. It would have been better if you had gotten more info on your setup before placing your order. Are you sure it's to late to cancel it? I'm not saying you should but it would give you more time to think things through. After all you could charge the SLA or even the lifepo4 batteries with a common 12v charger if you setup the wiring correctly. And a 12v charger is a lot cheaper too. Or you may even already have one for your car. Just a thought..

[only1jake]

I do not want to cancel my order! I am thinking and searching about different batteries to use. It's just last time i search up lifepo4 batts they were exceedingly expensive. So i thought they were still like this today. So i probably could go with ok lipo batts. I still have yet to decide if i want to change to lipo, althought it would be good if i could use lipo for around the same ammount or a little more. The controller is rater 150 amp peak and 100amp continuous. Lipo is definately the better bet, but i may have to resort to lead? anyways your guys help is great!
thanks
Jake

[Jay64]

Uh, how big is that wheel on that bike? Isn't that hub motor only like 13 inches or something? Usually that bike wheel is about 17 inches or so.

[only1jake]

Hi,
Yes the front wheel is 17 inches. The hub motor is 13 inches. The hub motor with tyre is 15 inches in total and the front wheel on the bike is 18 in total. I forgot to mention on the initial post, that i will be getting stiffer/little larger rear suspension, to compensate for the difference in sizes.
Hope that answers the question.
Thanks,
Jake

PS: Guys i have decided that i am going to stay with the lead-acid batteries, and keep the lipo/lifepo4 for another project when i have the paricular funds to buy proper gear.

[Jay64]

Why are you going with an upgrade on the rear suspension if you are changing the front wheel?
Btw, I use a SLA charger on my lifepo4 cells. The guy I got it from did a slight modification to it to get the higher charge at the end or something. So it can be done. And it works well.

[only1jake]

When i bought the bike it also came with 2 spare wheels, front and rear. The spare front wheel is in better condition, so im going to swap that out. I still think im going with lead for now. Might upgrade in the future.

[John in CR]

Jake,

If you really can't do cheaper than that on lead batteries, then you can get going as cheaply or cheaper using a variety of different lithium battery solutions. Also, you bought quite a lot of charger there with a zero in the flexibility department. If they haven't already shipped it, then maybe they have something a bit better for you going forward. Specifically a charger that can be tuned to different voltages would be great. Chinese New Year was last Sunday and their annual festival time is around then, so there's a chance it hasn't been shipped yet and make it easy to change your order. Just last week I bought over 50% greater total real world capacity than those 48V24ah of lead from DoctorBass for only $336usd including shipping. With a bit of easy manual work on my part, I'll end up with a battery shaped how I want with less than half the size and weight of the lead that will last for years and that I'll treat like a lead battery (just charge and go). Maybe once every few months or so I'll check the strings for balance, but at only $336 I'll probably just check things once or twice after the first few cycles to ensure all my connections are good and then just forget about it. The big question mark is how much more shipping would cost to NZ.

John

[liveforphysics]

When i bought the bike it also came with 2 spare wheels, front and rear. The spare front wheel is in better condition, so im going to swap that out. I still think im going with lead for now. Might upgrade in the future.

You got ripped hard on the sucky charger, and ripped hard on the 300w DC/DC. Both of those items cost you about 3-4x more than they should.

You're going to hate lead... It will function for a little while, it will make the thing move around for a little while, but it's no way to have a useful working motorcycle. A lead battery eats itself every time the voltage decreases on the cells, this is why they really suck for cycled energy storage, like an EV.

Also, if you want to use the 150amps your controller has available with cheap lithium, you're going to need to run 3P with headways cells, or at least 60Ah of thunder sky. The little 20Ah TS cells would be lucky to pump out 50amps, let alone 150amps.

Tool packs as John suggested would be a great cheap simple option. Lead always costs the most in the long run, and it always makes for a disappointment rather than a fun EV.

[John in CR]

I think Kelly rates their controllers at the phase output, so 150 amp limit is more like 100a or less for the battery. This thread keeps bringing back memories of my first shot at an e-moto. Three 60lb 75ah lead batteries, a Kelly 36v200a brushed controller, comet Torq-a-verter CVT, and a nice 3kw brushed motor. The only positive things I can say are that it did run, and hauled me on that pig up a short 25% grade leaving the house, but slow acceleration and max speed of 25mph or so is not a motorcycle to me. My grandfather's lawn tractor that I drove as a kid was more fun. I did 3-4 short test runs mostly rides for the kids on that beast, and it hasn't moved since then...about 20 months. Even my lead based e-bike was more fun.

That was before I discovered ES. Oh the $ and time I could have saved had I found ES sooner!!! Most of us have to learn the hard way, so Jake will be in lots of company.

John

[only1jake]

Hi guys,
I have found a local shop which can sell me some cheaper lead-acid batteries! I'm not sure on the price but i will investigate And as for my reason for not using lithium cells yet, is because i just want to get it on the road quickly for now, i dont have any transport. Once ive set it up and its sort of reliable (controller and motor) then is when i am probably thinking of going to lithium or lifepo4! That is my main reason.
The order hasnt been shipped yet, and its not going to be shipped until another week they said, but ive already been invoiced. And i don't really want to change it. I like this charger, but i knew the dc/dc was a bit too expensive. But i've been wanting to buy stuff from kelly controllers for a while now, so for me its quite exciting nevertheless.
I understand where you guys are coming from, but i just want to do like a said above. Test it and get it going and complete with lead and then litterally like the next month change to lithium!
Alright and thanks
Jake

EDIT: I would Like to use tool packs if possible?

[only1jake]

I really love your imput guys!
I have found 6 DeWalt 18v 2.4 ah for around $350 USD! http://www.trademe.co.nz/Building-renovation/Tools/Power-tools/Drills/auction-272407924.htm
If these would have enough amperage, i could maybe have 2 packs of 54 volts in parralel?
What do you think about the batteries? Or would i need a higher ampere?
thanks
Jake
Edit: http://www.trademe.co.nz/Building-renovation/Tools/Power-tools/Drills/auction-272160672.htm i found these ones?
Ive heard about makita are good? ::http://www.trademe.co.nz/Building-renovation/Tools/Power-tools/Saws/auction-272161610.htm
or these:http://www.trademe.co.nz/Building-renovation/Tools/Power-tools/Saws/auction-272177127.htm

[John in CR]

Jake,

Those Dewalts have NiCD cells not the A123 LiFePo4 cells. ie not what you want. WRT the Makita's I just got 24 Makita packs from DoctorBass for $336, ie $14/pk and they generally have 8 out of 10 good cells in those 18.5v3ah packs. SteveO has A123 cells listed in the for sale section with some of the soldering already done for you. Current-Pille has big quantities of Bosch & Dewalt packs really cheap in the for sale section.

Kelly order won't ship till next week= see about trading up to a higher power controller to better match your motor. Ideally one that also permits a range of voltage operation including higher, so you aren't stuck at 48. Higher amperage too due to Kelly's over rating. If it takes giving up the $200 controller and the converter to put that money already paid to a better controller, that's money much better spent, and you can easily replace that capacity locally.

Batteries are an investment. You're the one talking about budgetary concerns. If that local lead source is nearly free that's great for testing. For your commute, you're going to need at least 50wh of rated capacity per kilometer for lead and that's on the low side. Thats voltsXah=wh , so talking about some tool packs totaling a 259.2wh of capacity in total for $350usd clearly isn't sufficient.

Everyone has given you solid advice, except the idea that just 20ah of Thundersky cells would be sufficient, capacity maybe but power no way. It's now up to you to do your thing. If you do end up getting some used Makita packs I'll give you a step-by-step process of what I believe is the easy way to harvest those cells. Other than that I'm done here.

Good Luck! I hope you figure out a way to unleash the full potential of that motor, because that and your donor bike are what are solid in your build. I know there are a number of people waiting to hear about performance results for those motors. The controller will work, but probably a bit lackluster in performance. The rest is stuff that can be scrounged for cheap. Batteries are still ? despite being a make or break part of the project.

John

[biohazardman]

I really love your imput guys!
I have found 6 DeWalt 18v 2.4 ah for around $350 USD! http://www.trademe.co.nz/Building-renovation/Tools/Power-tools/Drills/auction-272407924.htm
If these would have enough amperage, i could maybe have 2 packs of 54 volts in parralel?
What do you think about the batteries? Or would i need a higher ampere?
thanks
Jake
Edit: http://www.trademe.co.nz/Building-renovation/Tools/Power-tools/Drills/auction-272160672.htm i found these ones?
Ive heard about makita are good? ::http://www.trademe.co.nz/Building-renovation/Tools/Power-tools/Saws/auction-272161610.htm
or these:http://www.trademe.co.nz/Building-renovation/Tools/Power-tools/Saws/auction-272177127.htm

http://www.toolking.com/dewalt-dc9280-2 ... no-battery You will need lots of them but they are near the best. If I had it to do over again I would have saved and bought the good stuff first thing.

[only1jake]

I have thought about it and understand where you guys are coming from. I have sent this email to kelly controllers:
Hi,
I have been thinking, and since the order has yet to be shipped. Could I change the Keb controller i currently have for this: http://www.newkellycontroller.com/product_info.php?cPath=24&products_id=564 .
Because the controller i currently have ordered does not fit my needs. Since the price is different could I *Not have the charger. So like this:
- 1 x KEB48300 150A 48V 3KW -$209.00
+ KEB48600 300A 48V 6KW +$349.0
= $149 more
So Minus the charger aswell!!
- 1 x F4815-48V/15A Charger -$199.00
That equals to $59 + which can be refunded?
So the order comes to:

1 x Low Cost Compact Assembly (KEB/KBL/PM ) $99.00
1 x Kelly 48Volt Charge Meter $19.00
2 x Throttle Hall 0-5V Twist Grip(WUXING) $38.00
1 x Optional Waterproof $38.00
1 x KEB48600 300A 48V 6KW $349.00
1 x HWZ Series DC/DC Convertor 48V to 12V 300W $129.00
1 x Hub Motor 48V3KW (High Speed)(disc-brake) $399.00
1 x Kit for Disc-brake Motor(big) $99.00
1 x Motor Tyre (13-inch motor special) with Vacuum births $79.00




$59 USD to be refunded!

Sub-Total: $1,249.00
Table Rate (Best Way):
Total:
$277.00
$1526.00
That is what i would like for my order! If this cannot happen. Cancel my order and i will reorder again!
Thank you
Jake

I will be rethinking about what im going to do with the batteries!
Thanks,
Jake

[only1jake]

So I'm going to have a 300 amp controller. And some spare cash. Which means i have more to spend on batteries, but i will also need a higher amperage. So that would equal to more speed and torque. Better and lighter ride. I'm going to think about what some of the members have said and do some more research. And decide which Lithium batteries i am going to use. Not going to use lead. Maybe get some for near free to test.

thanks,
Jake

Edit: Just got a reply from Jane, Says it is no problem!! which is great! I'm excited now to use lithium!

[only1jake]

Hello,
I've now made my final decision on batteries, and have realised that you have to invest in them. I am going to aim for this set: http://elitepowersolutions.com/products/product_info.php?cPath=26_33&products_id=106 which has everything i need and would be ideal for the project. I have a motor and controller and everything else. Just need the batteries, bms and charger. And this set looks great. It probably saves me money. Note the free shipping.
Thanks,
Jake

[sjoerdvdd]

Hi jake,

I was woundering what you've paid for shipping?

[only1jake]

In which order?
I'm not ordering the batteries yet, i have to save up!
on the website it says the shipping is free!
Jake

[dumbass]

Hello,
I've now made my final decision on batteries, and have realised that you have to invest in them. I am going to aim for this set: http://elitepowersolutions.com/products/product_info.php?cPath=26_33&products_id=106 which has everything i need and would be ideal for the project. I have a motor and controller and everything else. Just need the batteries, bms and charger. And this set looks great. It probably saves me money. Note the free shipping.
Thanks,
Jake

Good chose, that's where i got my packs.

[only1jake]

Just a small update.
Kelly claim they will be sending the gear at the start of march, because they have to 'make' the waterproof controller etc.
My parts from evworks should be here next week!
Ill take some photos when some stuff arrive.
Jake

[only1jake]

The order is on its way!!!

http://www.fedex.com/Tracking/Detail?as ... &pieceNum=

[only1jake]

Hey Guys,
I'm very excited because the order from kelly controllers has arrived, although i wont be able to test anything for a while, since i have no batteries.
Here are some pics of unboxing and the hub motor and controller etc. :









ENJOY!!!!

[only1jake]

More pics: Enjoy!








More to come!

[only1jake]

here you go!

[only1jake]

It was all packaged very very well, no damage to anything at all, considering it flew over nearly half the world lol!!
I just cant wait to get the batteries.