Motorcycle Hub Motor Part 2

[markcycle]

Mark why dont you go over 100V?? The Kelly controller can handle 130V

For a dirt bike 50 MPH is enough so 100 volts is OK. What I want to do, and there is room is to go from 15AH to 25AH for run time.

For road use sure 136 volts with a 603 would be ideal.
I know people using 36 cell LIFEPO4 for road bikes I'm using 34 cell right now and wish I had 36 cells.
Mark

[markcycle]

Yet another amazing build
Ed used 72 volts @ 35AH of lead




Mark

[markcycle]

There has been this tendency by those who dislike hub motors to make negative statments about the 600 series motor based on there experience with the X5 motor. The build differences are so great that such statements are just false.

Quick overview as to why the 602 motor is a improved design over the Xlyte 5 series motor and any performance comparison is unfair and wrong.

I'll start with this:
One must work within the capabilities of Xlite if one is going to get them to custom wind a motor, as we did at EnerTrac.
Yes the X5 and the 600 series motors are both radial designed motors using a slotted lamination, and both share the limitations of such a design.

But what has EnerTrac done to improve the 600 series motor while working within those capabilities?
First we got the lamination to be real cold rolled Si steel.

Second we worked with Xlyte to minimize the end copper, this is very important as the end copper contributes nothing to the rotation of the rotor and is just resistive heat losses
So lets look at some pictures of the X5 stator

Look at the ratio of copper in the steel vs end copper its almost .5 to 1. Also look at how much cooper is folded over.

Now lets look at the 600 series motor

Not only did we minimize the end wind but by having a wide stator the ratio of of copper in the stator to copper end losses are dramatically decreased

As one can see the differences between a X5 and the 600 series motor are so great that no experience with the X5 is relevant to the 600 series motor and statements making said comparisons are just wrong.

Mark

[icecube57]

I think im going to have night time emissions in the bed just looking at the photo of that stator. Man thats sick. Nice upskirt photos

[markcycle]

As powerful as the 602 motor from EnerTrac is it really wasn't powerful enough for the 600 to 800 pound chopper Hence the DU-602 product. Its two motors locked together using one controller. The axle is 250mm long. I can get cast aluminum rim 16 to 21 inches in size any width



Mark

[Ypedal]

[johnhead@frontiernet.net]

Once again, Mark thinking "out of the box" to produce another exciting offering.
Great work as usual!

[michaelplogue]

Are you allowed to reveal what sort of battery and controller configuration is going to be used for that monster DU-602 wheel? Looks fantastic!

[grindz145]

Who was the rider? I would love to get a shot at that track w that bike.
What did the guy at the very end say when the rider pulled off? "Hey buddy, ur exhaust pipe seems to have fallen off!" Ha ha.

The rider was the track owners nephew Jay you certainly are welcome to ride the bike. We won't be at the track this weekend but mostly the following weekend. Now that we have a place to do development work, I'll need all the test riders i can get. We have a KX250 roller in the shop we hope to build up using headway cells, and possibly sell.

Its a head turner thats for sure The bike is a old 91 YZ125 in dire need of repair we didn't do anything to rebuild the suspension and it needs it bad. The point was to show we can convert almost any dirt bike and give it good performance. Now that we have something to show, I have to fix up the bike.

Mark

I would be happy to do some test riding for you:D Seriously, if you ever have any weekend events (or build sessions, whatever) I'd love to take a trip down to LI and hang out. I love the "Transmission" setup. Well done Mark.

[markobetti]

As powerful as the 602 motor from EnerTrac is it really wasn't powerful enough for the 600 to 800 pound chopper Hence the DU-602 product. Its two motors locked together using one controller. The axle is 250mm long. I can get cast aluminum rim 16 to 21 inches in size any width



Mark

Great stuff Mark !!

[michaelplogue]

Hey Mark -

Have your customers shared with you what they are getting for their WH per mile range? I'd be interested in seeing some real-world data that compares battery configurations (volts, chemistry, etc) with their overall weight (with rider), and driving conditions (city, highway, flat, hilly, etc.).

I'm trying to find what would be the best battery configuration for your motor, and what sort of range I could expect when used with my latest "girder" motorcycle concept.

Thanks!

[markcycle]

Hey Mark -

Have your customers shared with you what they are getting for their WH per mile range? I'd be interested in seeing some real-world data that compares battery configurations (volts, chemistry, etc) with their overall weight (with rider), and driving conditions (city, highway, flat, hilly, etc.).

I'm trying to find what would be the best battery configuration for your motor, and what sort of range I could expect when used with my latest "girder" motorcycle concept.

Thanks!

That's an easy one with a MHM-602, In terms of weight in the 300 to 400 pound class you'll get 100 to 150 WH/mile That's at 96 volts. If you pull greater than 150 WH/mile chances are the motor will overheat so this becomes the limiting factor.

I can tell you above 400 pounds and with a 200 pound rider the motor is going to start pulling amps (like any motor) as anyone who builds motorcycles know weight matters (look at Zero's bikes, weight reduction to the extreme) On the flats weight is not a huge factor but hit any hill at speed and watch the amps climb as i said weight matters.

I've babied the throttle and got as low as 80 WH/mile on a 30 mile trip mixed highway and street out of a 40 AH battery.

I did a review see link
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3803661/efficency%20of%20the%20602%20motor.pdf

If you are going to take the weight much above 375 or you are going to do very hilly terrain then a 603 motor or the double DU-602 is the correct choice.

the DU-602 will do at least 200 WH/mile push a 600 pound bike with no problem and includes forced air cooling. Might be a good choice if you want to impress.

I have an example of a hardtail chopper using a 603 on the EnerTrac web page with video. his top speed is just greater than 50 MPH

http://www.enertrac.net/photos.php

I hope this helps

Mark

[markobetti]

You can also check : viewtopic.php?f=10&t=17733&start=75 , cause michaelplogue made a design with 602 motor now ... Chopper style..
sorry , duplicated michaelplogue post...

[michaelplogue]

As powerful as the 602 motor from EnerTrac is it really wasn't powerful enough for the 600 to 800 pound chopper Hence the DU-602 product. Its two motors locked together using one controller. The axle is 250mm long. I can get cast aluminum rim 16 to 21 inches in size any width

Mark

Sorry to bug you again Mark. I was trying to model up the DU-602, but am finding that putting two of them together comes out a lot more than 250mm..... Could you please verify the minimum dropout spacing needed for this setup?

Also, how are these wired up? Are the two motors connected together in series, with one controller? Or are are two controllers being used? What voltage?

Thanks!

[markcycle]

As powerful as the 602 motor from EnerTrac is it really wasn't powerful enough for the 600 to 800 pound chopper Hence the DU-602 product. Its two motors locked together using one controller. The axle is 250mm long. I can get cast aluminum rim 16 to 21 inches in size any width

Mark

Sorry to bug you again Mark. I was trying to model up the DU-602, but am finding that putting two of them together comes out a lot more than 250mm..... Could you please verify the minimum dropout spacing needed for this setup?

Also, how are these wired up? Are the two motors connected together in series, with one controller? Or are are two controllers being used? What voltage?

Thanks!

Please don't think you are bugging me

So I went back and reviewed the DU-602 and you are correct
The minimum width is 276mm
That's with dual torque arms and one brake caliper I would add about 12mm to 20mm extra width because the wheel is off center so depending on your swingarm design you need to add a 12mm spacer on the wire side, the side without a caliper.

The motors are wired in parallel one controller

You can contact me at elecbike@gmail.com and I can send you a cad file for the motor


Mark

[esoneson]

I see that you say the axle is 250mm long. But what I need to know is the minimum distance between the end points of the swing arm where the axle goes through. I will be getting a Softail frame with with tail assembly that pivots on an 'axle'-like bar. I need to know of the double-wide motor will fit between the axle holding points. The real terminology slipped out of my head. Hopefully you will understand the dimension that I need. How wide does the swing arm need to be to accommodate the DU-602? There!...the right question.

Eric

As powerful as the 602 motor from EnerTrac is it really wasn't powerful enough for the 600 to 800 pound chopper Hence the DU-602 product. Its two motors locked together using one controller. The axle is 250mm long. I can get cast aluminum rim 16 to 21 inches in size any width
Mark

[markcycle]

I see that you say the axle is 250mm long. But what I need to know is the minimum distance between the end points of the swing arm where the axle goes through. I will be getting a Softail frame with with tail assembly that pivots on an 'axle'-like bar. I need to know of the double-wide motor will fit between the axle holding points. The real terminology slipped out of my head. Hopefully you will understand the dimension that I need. How wide does the swing arm need to be to accommodate the DU-602? There!...the right question.

Eric

As powerful as the 602 motor from EnerTrac is it really wasn't powerful enough for the 600 to 800 pound chopper Hence the DU-602 product. Its two motors locked together using one controller. The axle is 250mm long. I can get cast aluminum rim 16 to 21 inches in size any width
Mark

Eric here is the number you need

295mm 11.61 inches

Mark

[We_Go_E_Go]

As powerful as the 602 motor from EnerTrac is it really wasn't powerful enough for the 600 to 800 pound chopper Hence the DU-602 product. Its two motors locked together using one controller. The axle is 250mm long. I can get cast aluminum rim 16 to 21 inches in size any width



Mark

LOOK's COOL MAN

Wiring it in parallel makes it a 1201 and wiring it in series would make it a 1204, right? You could use your relayes to shift, maybe?

I just got back to upstate NY from CA. I now have 45 Thundersky 60AH, 144v worth, but it's to cold out in the barn to put them on. I also got a microcontroller chip and some ADC chips, so I have started to build a (DDB) Digital DashBoard with a (BMS). Good inside project!

I did get a 360mm tire for a E Show Chopper, was planning for a DU-602 on it. It's 14" wide, hope to start the build this summer.

[We_Go_E_Go]

OOPs series would make it a 1202, because the winding only go 1/2 way across.

[markcycle]

OOPs series would make it a 1202, because the winding only go 1/2 way across.

Happy new year

Yes 1202/1204 but instead I think DU-603 or 1203 (now I have to think about the naming) might be better, simpler solution for mega torque motor.

Two 603 motors 136 to 144 volts, that will get your attention.

Mark

[markcycle]

DU-602 testing

[We_Go_E_Go]

Looks Good

[markcycle]

Sneak preview no claims the track will show its worth.

[markcycle]

For the TTXGP race motor we developed an air cooling system for the motor. We have been working on this (on and off) for almost a year now. We can get 50CFM or more through the motor
Here are the pictures



Now it's time to get the wheel to the Catavolt Team for testing

[Ypedal]

Daaaamn !!!

Will this be the first ever hub motor at the TTXGP ?