Another RG250 with Colossus Motor

SplinterOz

1 kW
Joined
Apr 21, 2010
Messages
496
Location
Canberra
I have been getting this build ready for a while now but have left starting this thread until I was at the interesting bits.
I picked up the donor bike around April 2010, with all fairings but no motor etc. The 12volt wiring was shot and some damage to the fairings but all in all a good find for 400AUD.

After cleaning up and reconditioning the brakes, bearings and front forks the bike was ready for me to do some calculations and planning.
The bike is going to be used for my regular commute, about 35Km (round trip) on 80Km/h roads. I was aiming for 70Km range and a top speed around 100km/h on the flat.

So I thought I would need a good motor and around 4kw/hrs of battery pack.

Just around that time some guys in Croatia decided to build a new motor.... http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=16728
and I jumped on board and grab one of the prototypes.

Electric Motor by Splinter, on Flickr

[youtube]yk817U0Asig[/youtube]

Noting the motor was drawing a little too much no-load current (a small issue on the prototype I got) toolman2 and I looked around for a solution.
Low and behold Burtie was working on a hall timing adjuster.. http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=19054
Again I got a prototype and got the motor running....

[youtube]rUwjLzmNWR0[/youtube]

The motor has some specs like this....
79Kv
0.124nM/amp
0.0088 ohms resistance
Peak Efficiency at 218 amp and 76 volts
Therefore 16.6kW continous
95.0% efficiency.

The controller I am using is a 24 mosfet controller built by stevo.. http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14798.

I have bought 144 Headway 38140 10ah cells to build a 24S6P pack for the bike, however I think I will only be able to fit 24S5P in the frame.

More to come.......
 
I have decided to remove the 18inch 2.5 inch rear rim and replace it with a CBR900 front wheel to give me a bit better look and some more rubber on the road. However this means that I had to get a sprocket carrier and a brake disc carrier made up.
Here are some photos of what the fabricator has done.

Sproket Carrier

Rolling Chassis by Splinter, on Flickr

Disc and sproket carrier

Rolling Chassis by Splinter, on Flickr

Motor mount mounting plate

Rolling Chassis by Splinter, on Flickr

The motor being an outrunner was going to be a little challenging to mount and again the guy came through with the goods.

Motor in the motor mount (yep new shaft)

Rolling Chassis by Splinter, on Flickr


Rolling Chassis by Splinter, on Flickr


Rolling Chassis by Splinter, on Flickr

All Together now....

Rolling Chassis by Splinter, on Flickr


Rolling Chassis by Splinter, on Flickr


Rolling Chassis by Splinter, on Flickr

Should be turning the rear wheel with electricity tomorrow.
 
Awesome..

The size reduction in motor from the gas engine is truly comical.
 
This build is looking awesome. I will be following it for sure.

How much radial clearance is there between the motor can and your mount. Looks very close from the photos. Eddy currents in the ally might be a concern. Link to relevant post

Now you have got me thinking about a motor bike again, since I have about a hundred headways looking for a home. :D

- Adrian
 
Clearance is around 5-7 mm. I think this motor is not too bad the magnetic flux is very low outside the can. At one point the guys tried to mount the hall sensors externally but could not get a reliable signal due to the steel can. I will do some close measurements and confirm if it will be an issue (I hope not however I don't want to machine another mount.)
 
Hope not too, that mount is a thing of beauty.

A quick no load current test with and without the mount will tell you quick smart.
 
Nice build man!

If I had my time again I would not go with the Agnis, purely on convenience. But that mount looks fantastic! Well done mate!

I'm still planning on getting my bike to Wakefield Park this April/May weekend, but I'd appreciate it if TTX-GP would announce attendance / registrations sometime soon :?

Looking great!

Cheers,
CHRIS

(the other RG250 guy ;))
 
This looks to be very nice work, I love the quality of the bracketry. If the 12kW motor is like the 7kW one then the flux leakage from the can is quite small. The two 7kW Colossus motors I have struggle to hold paperclips to the outside of the can, so maybe your small clearance will be OK. A no-load test will tell for sure.

I'll be following this thread with interest, as I'm really interested to see how this motor runs with a single stage reduction on a motorcycle. I'm planning on using its smaller 7kW cousin on my much smaller RD50MX, using a high Kv wye wind and a two stage reduction.

Jeremy
 
Jeremy Harris said:
This looks to be very nice work, I love the quality of the bracketry.

+1 I like how the bracket has been lightened it matches the frame very nicely
IMO. I'm very interested to see how the controller copes. Best of luck with the rest of the build.

KiM
 
Looks awesome. Will be following this with interest as well. Very impressive so far, the fireblade wheel on the rear was worth the effort, looks much more surly.

Do you know how involved or difficult the ACT registration is going to be? I have often fantasised about doing something like this (on a smaller scale, with a Postie bike or such), but have had no idea how involved the beauracracy involved would be.

I have had such mixed experiences with ACT Road User services. I once had a motorbike stolen, and it turned up in QLD after the genius who stole it was caught with a truckload of bikes he had knicked in Canberra. When I got it back it was in three pieces and had had the Vin/Chasis number filed off. Getting it re-registered involved one guy making me come back three times until he was happy with the size of the reflector on it, but by the third time I got a different guy and even though I had hand punched the Vin/chasis numbers back on by hand with a bad hand punch, and they were completely illegible to anyone, he waved his hand and let me through.

If I knew I could get mashed-up-vin man a project could be viable, but if it was reflector man the idea of getting an electric bike passed would bring me to tears.

Best of luck with it, hope to see you flying around town before too long. Cheers, Phil.
 
SplinterOz said:
I have decided to remove the 18inch 2.5 inch rear rim and replace it with a CBR900 front wheel to give me a bit better look and some more rubber on the road. However this means that I had to get a sprocket carrier and a brake disc carrier made up.
Here are some photos of what the fabricator has done.

Sproket Carrier

Rolling Chassis by Splinter, on Flickr

Disc and sproket carrier

Rolling Chassis by Splinter, on Flickr

Motor mount mounting plate

Rolling Chassis by Splinter, on Flickr

The motor being an outrunner was going to be a little challenging to mount and again the guy came through with the goods.

Motor in the motor mount (yep new shaft)

Rolling Chassis by Splinter, on Flickr


Rolling Chassis by Splinter, on Flickr


Rolling Chassis by Splinter, on Flickr

All Together now....

Rolling Chassis by Splinter, on Flickr


Rolling Chassis by Splinter, on Flickr


Rolling Chassis by Splinter, on Flickr

Should be turning the rear wheel with electricity tomorrow.
Thats a very nice engine mount but it looks like it might cause drag on the motor??? It looks to close to the skirt and it will cause a eddy brake no??
 
Nice work 8)

I used to have an RG250, brilliant bike!! they handle really well.. you going to scoop some air up on to the motor? be interesting to see the rest of the build panning out, I like what I see so far and have not seen this motor before, specs for its size are pretty amazing.

All the best with the build and keep us all posted :mrgreen: me likey :)

Knoxie
 
Ok I have run a test of the motor on the mount on the bike....

and the news is....

About 0.3 amps different from the motor free standing. Most of that I think is due to the fact I did not zero the amp reading prior to the test (even though I tried) and the fact that the battery was fresher pushing out about an extra volt or so.

Video is uploading to Youtube now will link soon.

[youtube]DtVOB-K2m7A[/youtube]
 
It has been a very productive day.

I a 13 tooth front and a 54 rear... so about 4.15 ratio. Rear wheel is 196.5cm circumference approx 62.5cm diameter. So that would give a speed of 142Km/h at 5000 rpm. Probably don't have the right rear sprocket.... however the sprocket is from the KLR range of bikes and I can get them up to 72 teeth.

The chain in place and the motor is spinning up the wheel. Note based on the above I was pulling approx 5400 so the rear wheel speed was approx 153 Km/h (95 MPH). This was pulling 8.6 amps for the full speed no load test to the back wheel so about an extra 3 amps (228 watts at 76 volts) of loss due to chain, bearings and any brake drag. Seems to be reasonable to me.
[youtube]6jaJ9IP9keg[/youtube]
 
This is awesome!
Are you running it on a 24 fet??? I would like to see how it works under load?
 
Yep 24 fet. I also want to see it run under load. I have the Cycle Analyst and the controller limiting current at the moment... trying to stop the magic smoke escaping.

I am about 50/50 on whether this controller will hold up or if I have to buy a much bigger/better one.
 
SplinterOz said:
I am about 50/50 on whether this controller will hold up or if I have to buy a much bigger/better one.

Unfortunately i think this will be the case, everything crossed for you though
i wanna see this thing rip it up!

KiM
 
SplinterOz said:
It has been a very productive day....... This was pulling 8.6 amps for the full speed no load test to the back wheel so about an extra 3 amps (228 watts at 76 volts) of loss due to chain, bearings and any brake drag. Seems to be reasonable to me.

Productive indeed. Looking good. Glad to here there is no significant eddy current issues. That mount is too pretty to mess with.

Good luck with the rest of the build.
 
voicecoils said:
considered the big sevcon brushless controllers? expensive and reasonably large but good for 30kW+ continuously

eg http://www.electricmotorsport.com/store/ems_ev_parts_controllers_sevcon_gen4_36-48_650.php

apologies if this has been considered/discussed before

No apologies required... this one looks like it would do...
http://www.electricmotorsport.com/store/ems_ev_parts_controllers_sevcon_gen4_72-80_350.php

This motor will do about 30kw max and 16kw continuous (without water cooling). I am planning to run it with 24S LiFePo so around 76 volts or so.

If this blows up I may have to bite the bullet and buy a controller more expensive than the motor :)
Mind you what hurts is the 900 for the programming interface... ouch
 
What style of sprocket did you use??? Taperlock?
I was worried about the two little screws holding the shaft in the other end of the collossus bending from the torque!
 
SplinterOz said:
voicecoils said:
considered the big sevcon brushless controllers? expensive and reasonably large but good for 30kW+ continuously

eg http://www.electricmotorsport.com/store/ems_ev_parts_controllers_sevcon_gen4_36-48_650.php

apologies if this has been considered/discussed before

No apologies required... this one looks like it would do...
http://www.electricmotorsport.com/store/ems_ev_parts_controllers_sevcon_gen4_72-80_350.php

This motor will do about 30kw max and 16kw continuous (without water cooling). I am planning to run it with 24S LiFePo so around 76 volts or so.

If this blows up I may have to bite the bullet and buy a controller more expensive than the motor :)
Mind you what hurts is the 900 for the programming interface... ouch
I think the 24 fet will be not bad for you. I pulled 33kw out of my 18 fet many times as peaks and over 15kw continious. SO depeding on the 4115 or 4110 fets a 24 fet should be able to pull a bit more if the traces are built up! But if the 24 fet is not enough then....
You should look here at the G8055 http://www.sevcon.com/PDFs/G80%20Datasheet%20G801109B.pdf
 
Subscribed! I was listening to your video's and I noticed that to me it sounded like when you would rev and let off the bearings would chatter a bit. I dont know if that was what I was in fact hearing but are the bearings up to the loads they will experience on a bike? I look forward to watching your progress in this awesome little build.
 
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