Renault Twizy

[Hillhater]

....there are 2 versions, the lower power one kids can drive without a licence, although the car is speed limited to 28mph, they will still need insurance which will be the killer for most kids,...

Actually i think .."the killer for most kids".... would be allowing then on to the roads in any vehicle without a licience .(provisional / training).
It is madness to think that any 16/17yr old is responsible enough to be in control of a vehicle on public roads without effective training and assessment.
Its not just the speed that kills, its the lack of "responsibility" that youth is endowed with.

[Matthijs]

Delivery is "greener" as well because a bunch of them just fit in a truck:

[knoxie]

....there are 2 versions, the lower power one kids can drive without a licence, although the car is speed limited to 28mph, they will still need insurance which will be the killer for most kids,...

Actually i think .."the killer for most kids".... would be allowing then on to the roads in any vehicle without a licience .(provisional / training).
It is madness to think that any 16/17yr old is responsible enough to be in control of a vehicle on public roads without effective training and assessment.
Its not just the speed that kills, its the lack of "responsibility" that youth is endowed with.

From what I can tell at least here in the UK if they do go ahead with it they will still have to take the CBT which is a test that kids have to take before they are allowed out on mopeds, for me I cant see too many taking one up as they only have to wait a year more and they can get a normal car, if your going to pay insurance you might as well have a proper car. For adults with full no claims bonus it looks like they are going to be classed in insurance group 1 which is the lowest cost group for a car and you wont have to pay road tax which helps.

I can see them being really popular especially in London, the Gwhiz has been quite a success however this is a much cooler looking option and there looks like there might be a bit of scope for some performance upgrades! ha ha, will see if Jozzer gets his hands on one! pretty sure he may do

Neat photos of them in the back of that truck too!! I tell you I would happily use one of these little cars, the more I see of them the more that I like them and to be honest I am pretty sure I would get less looks from folks than I do when I ride my KMX on the road.

[Lebowski]

about being used by youth, maybe they're clasified as 'quads' with a roof, not as cars ?

anyway, I would love to have a Twizy, main issue is not the price but that
I've no room left in my garage (with the 4 bicycles & 3 motorcycles it's
basically full...). I would need to trade in my 2011 R1200R to make room
but I'm not willing to do that, maybe in a few years time.

[Matthijs]

Today I drove the Twizy for an hour! At around 10 c it is doable but I needed thicker clothing and thin gloves. The ride is pretty hard but it feels one with the road. At the limit you just get easy correctable understeer. It is just a blast to drive! One little thing I noticed was the cabin is too wide to put your arm outside the window.

I have to say overall I get the impression that the Twizy could be sold for a lot less. The materials used are just not really convincing. At topspeed you really miss that side window and you just want to go that littlebit faster. I just smiled the whole way in the Twizy but after one hour you start to wish a little more comfort and I noticed in the city you are taking in quite a bit off exhaust fumes. I took picture of the Sevcon but could not find out which one it was. The sales lady could not tell me more about it.

One almost dealbreaker. You NEED to rent the battery for the LIFETIME of the vehicle!! Even when the batteries get a lot cheaper you still pay premium. Service is only €50 per year. So no tweaking or tuning a Twizy. Really sad.

[o00scorpion00o]

Nice!

Surely you can sell Twizzy and throw the battery back at Renault if you want ? Surely another owner can buy it 2nd hand without having to buy Renault's battery ? That would piss me off!

You either own it or not!

I still can't understand why they didn't have full doors as an option. It would mean less wind. I'm sure they will offer that in a while. Having said that Being out on my bike the last few days, once wrapped up it's not so bad. I can only imagine it wouldn't be as bad in Twizy as the bike, you get full blast of the elements on the Bike!

[Matthijs]

Nice!

Surely you can sell Twizzy and throw the battery back at Renault if you want ? Surely another owner can buy it 2nd hand without having to buy Renault's battery ? That would piss me off!

You either own it or not!

No can't do. The twizy is connected to Renault and the battery hire for the lifetime of the vehicle! Also acros all the owners! When I started about a little more speed etc and my own pack you could see her face turn a bit pale and she came up with regulations, type approval, insurence coverage etc. to seriously talk you out of it and to make really clear that you always rent the battery from them. You can only stop payment if you temporarly dismiss it. Really a bummer because if you own it for 10 years you almost pay a second Twizy.

[Lebowski]

Nice!

Surely you can sell Twizzy and throw the battery back at Renault if you want ? Surely another owner can buy it 2nd hand without having to buy Renault's battery ? That would piss me off!

You either own it or not!

I still can't understand why they didn't have full doors as an option. It would mean less wind. I'm sure they will offer that in a while. Having said that Being out on my bike the last few days, once wrapped up it's not so bad. I can only imagine it wouldn't be as bad in Twizy as the bike, you get full blast of the elements on the Bike!

Full doors means you need a ventilation system with a fan etc etc...

[Matthijs]

Full doors means you need a ventilation system with a fan etc etc...

Well not quite because the Twizy is very open anyway. It doesn't have any seals so ventilation enough. It has a heated front window.

[o00scorpion00o]

I still can't understand how you can buy twizy, you legally own it, but you can't install your own battery ? I don't understand how they can legally do this ?

So when Twizy is 3 years old they will still charge you 50 euro's a month for only 4600 miles a year. That's not a lot of miles really ?

[Matthijs]

I still can't understand how you can buy twizy, you legally own it, but you can't install your own battery ? I don't understand how they can legally do this ?

So when Twizy is 3 years old they will still charge you 50 euro's a month for only 4600 miles a year. That's not a lot of miles really ?

I think it is because they can. The saleslady told me it is for the lifetime of the Twizy and all owners so if you buy my secondhand twizy after 1,2,3,10,15 years it still comes with the battery rental. I am hoping for belgium where combined sales of services is not allowed. If you want to drive more you pay more.

[o00scorpion00o]

I still can't understand how you can buy twizy, you legally own it, but you can't install your own battery ? I don't understand how they can legally do this ?

So when Twizy is 3 years old they will still charge you 50 euro's a month for only 4600 miles a year. That's not a lot of miles really ?

I think it is because they can. The saleslady told me it is for the lifetime of the Twizy and all owners so if you buy my secondhand twizy after 1,2,3,10,15 years it still comes with the battery rental. I am hoping for belgium where combined sales of services is not allowed. If you want to drive more you pay more.

HMmm, I wonder is this true ? maybe she is not fully aware of the situation ?

Surely I can sell Twizy 2nd hand and hand back the battery to Renault ? surely I can sell it 2nd hand and the new owner can do what he wants with it ?, I shouldn't have to tell Renault I'm selling it or to who I'm selling it to!

Having said that though, I couldn't imaging forking our for the full price of making my own battery out of LiPo!

[knoxie]

Yes I think Renault might struggle here with the legality of the battery issue, it depends on the contract law in what ever country they sell them in, they might not be able to do it in all countries.

I dont see what's to stop you taking the battery out of the car and sending it back to Renault? they need to be careful here because people dont like being tied in like this, the other option is they offer you the car without a battery, EU law is very strange and does allow this kind of practice though, high end Ferrari race cars are sometimes sold like this whereby you cant sell the car without their permission, the car is kept by Ferrari and you just get to drive it? very bizarre.

I imagine the car would cost a lot more if they didnt get the return on the battery like this though.

[JennyB]

Delivery is "greener" as well because a bunch of them just fit in a truck:

Somehow that reminds me of the scene at the start of Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, with the posse's horses on the train.

That got me thinking: No one would want to drive such a light vehicle on a freeway - but who wants to drive on a freeway anyway? Ideally you could rent a Twizy, drive to a coach or train station, and pick up another at the other end to take you to you final destination. Cars fail by trying to combine door-to-door with long distance transport, which results in places too thinly spread for walking and traffic too fast for cycling. Public transport (where it is available) is awkward with anything more than hand luggage.

I'm thinking of a sort of hybrid truck/bus system that could be used by any flat-bed with spare capacity. They stop between platforms at load level on either side from where passengers and freight enter and leave. Each, depending on size, may accommodate 4-8 Twizy-sized sections which may carry (for example) either eight passengers on facing benches, up to six freight pallets, a small EV, a stretcher case, or a couple of heavily-loaded bikes and their riders. Since all can be loaded or unloaded simultaneously, stopping time is minimal. The carrier has no responsibility other than to get safely to the next stop, so could be anything from private hauliers making a bit of money from their empty trips to a dedicated electric rail line.

Stops could have a local delivery service like CargoHopper, or NEVs, trailers and ebikes for hire.

[Matthijs]

I just found out that in Holland a Twizy is registered as a L7e vehicle:

Quadricycles (L7e), also referred to as Heavy quadricycles, are defined by Framework Directive 2002/24/EC as motor vehicles
 with four wheels "other than those referred to (as light quadricycles), whose unladen mass is not more than 400 kg (category L7e) (550 kg for vehicles intended for carrying goods), not including the mass of batteries in the case of electric vehicles, and whose maximum net engine power does not exceed 15 kW.
These vehicles shall be considered to be motor tricycles and shall fulfil the technical requirements applicable to motor tricycles of category L5e unless specified differently in any of the separate Directives".[1]

But because this category in Holland is not clasified at the Dutch RDW. (DMV) it's 3 wheeled motorvehicle and has NO maximum construction speed limit! And who says 15 kW is peak power?

[Matthijs]

[Matthijs]

First video I have seen driving in heavy rain and 6 C temps. I would like to have sidewindows.

[o00scorpion00o]

I rang my insurance company and guess what ?

They will not insure a Twizy, no acceptable reason given. The girl said "it has no doors" I said it has half doors she said "but it has no windows" they are just assholes.

I bet it will cost 600 euro's or more judging by the way things are in this place!

I will ring another company later!

[o00scorpion00o]

Rang 2nd company and they said it's not on their system and they have to get back to me!

Wouldn't you think insurance companies would be informed by the auto companies of new vehicles like this ?

SO chances are If I had a Twizy in the morning I wouldn't be able to find an insurance company to insure me!

What a country!

[Lessss]

The real stupidity is that you have to have insurance at all. Cough up slave!

[o00scorpion00o]

Okay found a company willing to give me a quote, now I hope you are sitting down.

Because I have the Pirus I can't use my 5 year no claims discount.

So the quote I got including the electric car discount was €853.00 or 1100 USD!

The Prius costs 450.00 Euro's per year with the two of us on it, and can go a lot faster than Twizy!

Nobody will buy the Twizy unless it costs at least half that to insure because at such a stupid price it's no incentive for anyone to change to a more suitable form of city and town travel.

This Island is really so backward!

Twizy = FAIL

[Lebowski]

contact Renault and tell them !

[o00scorpion00o]

contact Renault and tell them !

Just off the phone to them now, got put through to Twickenham in the U.K The lady said she would defiantly pass the message along and made me aware that Renault have their Own auto insurance. So I will ring the local Dealer tomorrow.

Shame on Renault for not making the insurance companies more aware of their new cars!

[Matthijs]

In Holland Renault made a document for isurance companies and the rules they must follow to insure a Twizy. Because the battery belongs to RFG (Renault Finance Group) and it states that the battery has to be fully insured at all time and that RFG will always be the benificiary when something happens to the battery. The document even says that the insured value of the battery is 3800 euro's and the write off is 10% per year.

You can find the Dutch document here: http://nivre.nl/userfiles/downloads/Flits%20januari%202012%20Renault%20ZE%20batterijverzekering.pdf

Free translation with google:

Information for insurance companies -insurance Introduction HE battery from Renault in November 2011 introduced a period of 1 year 4 electric cars on the Dutch market.Renault uses the term Z.E. which stands forZero Emission. The motto of Renault is that an electric car should be accessible to everyone!The Z.E. Renault business model is characterized by the unbundling of the car and the battery. The battery remains during the economic lifetime ownership of RenaultFinancial Services (RFS). Customer benefit is that the initial investment is low and monthlyrent is paid for the battery. Renault and RFSguarantee the quality of the battery: if by a technical fault, the battery capacity is insufficient, then it is replaced at no charge tothe customer. This business model does haveimplications for the insurance: the batteryshould be ensured, even if she has a different owner than the car. This document describesthe conditions required insurance must complybattery and put the product characteristics of the battery RFS ZE insurance at a glance

[Lebowski]

still, you can bitch and moan about the obligatory battery lease, I think it's a smart idea from Renault's
point of view. Because people don't own the battery they don't care what happens to it. Renault can
upgrade the technology when you bring the Twizy for service with no cost to the driver. Or just replace
the worn out unit for a new one. But the big plus I see is that Renault can offer a $ 5 battery swap at
every dealer so people can swap an empty one for a full one, like at a gas station. I think an easy way
to fuel up in a few minutes is a big thing for EV's and the main thing that keeps EV's from becoming
mainstream. On the Renault site they mention this, they kept this in mind as all their EV's are designed
for a quick battery swap from underneath. There's a video somewhere showing a robotised 'E' station
swapping a battery fully automatically.