E-max 110s lifepo4 upgrade

[yokneamcity]

Silent block= bushes
About distributor,I turned to the Italians, they redirected me to the Spaniards.
As far as I understand the adjustment of the suspension is only on the rear shock. The front shock absorber has no control.
Why logic unit need 48V and 12V together?

[flexy]

Could you find correct size bushes from another scooter manufacturer?

I could only get the logic controller to work that way,
It needs the 48V for it's main power and a 12 v signal on line 8 to fool it into working without the speed control unit
I can't find another way to power it.

[yokneamcity]

So DC/DC from 48V to 12 V located in power unit?

[flexy]

No 48V -12V dc\dc is in the logic unit, I can't find a way to get it to run from 12V because it is sealed.

[yokneamcity]

Could you find correct size bushes from another scooter manufacturer?

I could only get the logic controller to work that way,
It needs the 48V for it's main power and a 12 v signal on line 8 to fool it into working without the speed control unit
I can't find another way to power it.

So 12 V signal on line 8 it kind of feedback to logic unit from power unit?

[mizuh]

By the way the quality of shock absorbers are not very high.
I've already changed the seals on the front fork. And changed the rear shock. Now I need to replace the silent blocks.
Where can I get parts?
I contacted the office in Germany. Shipping to Israel from 100 euros.

Which silent blocks you need to change? EM-40103 and EM-40104 silent bloks of rear shock ? It cost together 13 EUR. Shipping 20 EUR. If you want I´ll try to order it and ship it to you.

[mizuh]

Why logic unit need 48V and 12V together?

I quess that in logic unit is integrated 48DC/12DC converter and in power unit is inegrated contactor / relay which enable power unit on when you turn on by key. So when you turn by key it enables to go 48V to converter, 12V goes from converter to contactor / relay in power unit, which power on power and logic unit. I´m not so good in reading wiring diagram so I guess that it could work this way.

[flexy]

I've had no luck trying to use a meanwell as a 72v - 48v DC/DC convertor. does anyone know where I could get one?

[yokneamcity]

I have received and installed the LiFePo4 battery.
Battery from the manufacturer OSN_Power. From the A123 cells. 48V-60A/H.Weight 26 kg
The battery came charged and I rode 70 km.
After that, the battery voltage drops to 50V (3.125 volts per cell) and I returned home.
Evident in the appreciable acceleration dynamics. The maximum speed of 48 km / h instead of 45 km / h.

When I installed the battery, there were problems. Manufacturer mixed width and height. The battery was narrow and high. And the plastic сover the battery was not closed.
Then I decided to put the battery on the side.
On one side was a sticker BMS. I opened the top cover of the battery and this was really BMS.
I put the battery on the side so that the BMS was at the top.
And then the plastic is closed.

[flexy]

Thanks for posting all the pics, I'm glad you got it to fit.

Did you get any pictures of the inside of the pack so we could see how the terminals on the cells are connected?

I want to build a pack from the A123 20Ah pouch cells.

I calculated I could fit 124 of these cells without modifying the battery box, which would give the following possibilities.

72V 24s 5p 100Ah 120cells
60V 20s 6p 120Ah 120cells
48V 16s 7p 140Ah 112cells

I need to test with my 72v headway pack first to see how the motor performs at that voltage.

How does the scooter feel with the lighter batteries?

[yokneamcity]

I'm not taking photos inside. Just opened it and looked.
At the top cell contacts to PCB board. Contacts are in the slots on the PCB board and soldered to the board. On top of the PCB, the contacts are connected by wires.
Everything was done neatly.
After upgrade to lithium, the scooter much more dynamic.

[flexy]

Sounds great, and thank you for the rack

[mizuh]

Nice job!! How much it costs?

[yokneamcity]

Nice job!! How much it costs?

LiFePo4 Prismatic cells A123 20A/H 48 pcs- 1050 USD
BMS CC-85A , Peack 200A - 90 USD
Charger- 48V-10A -95 USD
Shipment by DHL-- 350 USD (30 kg)
Total- 1585 USD

[yokneamcity]

Sounds great, and thank you for the rack

[flexy]

I have found a PSU which can power the 48V logic unit form a >70V supply.

48V 2.5A 120W Mains Switching Adaptor Power Supply.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/120890412651?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_1330wt_827
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8208701/Electric%20scooters/IMG_20120513_125306.jpg

Hopefully this will get things working, though I'm not happy that it adds more complexity to the bike. The other option is to replace the entire wiring loom on the bike with a basic one, I have heard a few bad stories of Emax's going haywire in the wet and I'm sure all extra connectors and signal wires they have added cause this.

[rgody]

I recently got an E-max 110s 2008 model.

This comes with the stock 48V SLA battery and 4000W motor.




I would like to upgrade it to a 72V Lifepo4 pack.

I am getting an 18 fet controller from Lyen
I'm planning to build a pack from Headway 40152S cells, in 24s 5p configuration to give me a 60Ah pack.

The main problem I have is the existing 48V motor controller and the control box for the other scooter electrics are all in proprietary sealed circuits.


So my main concern is fitting the new controller without affecting the existing functions.

All the visible capacitors on the existing controller and DC/DC convertor are 63V so that rules out using them with higher voltage.

Should I leave the existing controller powered from a 72-48V dc-dc convertor and keep the electrics running off that, or completely remove it and attempt to rewire as a basic scooter wiring loom?

I have no schematics for this bike, if anyone has one it would be much appreciated.

Here you can find some controller's schematics :

http://www.proud-eagle.com/pro6.asp
http://www.proud-eagle.com/pro10.asp

Terminal 8 is +12V_Out as you can see in table "Definition of connector terminals"


I have one of this motor and a controller that Im testing for EV project.
I have a 45A controller manual (in doc format) if you need.

Regards
Rodrigo
Viña del Mar, Chile

[flexy]

Thanks rgody, that's good information , I see they make the motors too . My controller must be an older model than the one they have shown, I'm replacing it with a Lyen 18FET but this would be a good starting point for anyone wanting to use the existing components.

It says here that the logic unit can run at up to 80V so for 60V conversions it should be fine.I wouldn't risk it at 24s lifepo4 though that can be at 84V off the charger.
http://www.proud-eagle.com/pro8.asp

Edit; that MSU is not the the same as the one I have, it must be the newer version.

[rgody]

I didnt buy the MSU unit (http://www.proud-eagle.com/pro8.asp). I dont have the manual for it.
But here is the manual tha controller I have (looks like yours) :

Controller user manua- proud-eagle.doc

Controller manual

(463.5 KiB) Downloaded 108 times

good luck!!

Regards

[yokneamcity]

A lot of interesting information came.
Thanks for the controller documentation.

Last week, I punctured the rear wheel. To seal it, I took off the wheel. Weighed it and took a few photos.
No tire wheel weighs 20 kg.

[yokneamcity]

I didnt buy the MSU unit (http://www.proud-eagle.com/pro8.asp). I dont have the manual for it.
But here is the manual tha controller I have (looks like yours) :

Controller user manual proud-eagle.doc

good luck!!

Regards

As far as I understand it, the controller does not regenerate

[flexy]

I have tested the motor at 72V, it runs a little rough at low speeds on the Lyen controller.

The Cycle Analyst seems to lose ability to read speed at 60mph, the pulses maybe too fast. From the sound frequncy I estimate it's going up to 70mph + . This will probably equal 50mph+ on the road.



I got stuck with the rest of the wiring;
I got the MSU to work from the 72-48v DC/DC ,when I turn the key, it turns everything on including the new controller.

When I turn the main lights on, it shuts down and restarts the MSU and "system error 01" appears on the dashboard.
According to the instructions this means

'Memory of speedometer defect. Exchange speedometer if message is still there.'

Very frustrating

[flexy]

I found a workaround.

I was taking a 15V output from a pad on the controller pcb to switch on the MSU, it turns out there is too much current draw when the scooter lights are on.

So now I have added a 48-12V DC/DC to power pin 8 on the MSU, this is turned on by a relay, which is switched by the 15V controller pad.

Now the lighting works and the bike turns on and off from the key switch

This has added more complexity and the 2 DC/DC's will be a battery drain.

I still want to replace the wiring loom with a traditional one, it will be much more reliable. I might have to make one. Does anyone one know of a basic scooter wiring loom/harness that you can retrofit to other bikes?

[battman]

The Cycle Analyst seems to lose ability to read speed at 60mph, the pulses maybe too fast.(

If the problem is the pulse duration being too short, rather than the frequency of pulses being too high, then this might be addressed by positioning the magnet and sensor closer to the center of the hub so that the velocity at which the magnet moves past the sensor is lower.

[flexy]

Thanks battman, unfortunately my CA is reading pulses from one of the hall sensor leads inside the controller, I guess if I used an external speed sensor your method would work great. I'm sure there is a way of tidying up the signal so it's easier for the CA to read.