Kawasaki KE100 conversion

veloman

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This will be my build thread now.

What's the cheapest way to get a motorcycle class ev up and running? Convert an old ice motorcycle? "buy a used zero or brammo? Mod an e scooter? I prefer the looks of something like a zero Xu, but even used they are $4000. I will mod whatever I have so it can go 70mph on the lowest power. Yes, aero mods.
 
Buy a light weight sports bike from a reputable brand, like a yamaha etc. Sell the engine, install John from CRs hub motor mid drive after cutting some holes in it under his recommendations, add some controllers from John from CR too, 130V battery pack. Go have fun :)

Don't do what i did with getting a cheap Chinese bike, its not good. And also unless you love the look of a tiny wheel, or a small bike i highly suggest mid mounting the motor, if your willing to mod the motor properly then you could even use the Mini-monster that John is selling at ~20kw will be just enough to power a small 250 aero bike to 70mph. If john has any of the already stripped down mid-monster motors then that would be ideal with out forking out the extra money or weight for the Hub monster.

$4000 you can probably come equal to it, don't know if it will be cheaper depending on the battery of those $4000 bikes.
 
Okay, so there is possibility of this bike - a 1971 Yamaha AT1 125cc enduro. I just talked to the owner who has a clear title. Is $500 a good deal?
http://austin.craigslist.org/mcy/3857394369.html
 
veloman said:
Okay, so there is possibility of this bike - a 1971 Yamaha AT1 125cc enduro. I just talked to the owner who has a clear title. Is $500 a good deal?
http://austin.craigslist.org/mcy/3857394369.html

Dated suspension and brakes IMO. Plus, may need more rubber components replaced due to age. I'd also look for something newer by virtue of being less "collectible" as well.

I'm not up on the latest greatest for emoto converts but something more substantial in the 400cc Nighthawk, CB, KZ, RD, etc., class would make best sense to me in order to handle heavy battery pack.
 
Snag it, sell the engine. Brakes and suspension are fine, I used to ride my RD60 @65 MPH on the freeway in Phoenix and it had smaller brakes and less suspension. This bike is just big enough without being too big. They make 13 HP stock and the 175 is the same chassis but with 17 HP.

This is the E-S of those types of motos:
http://www.yamahaenduro.com

These have huge generators on them which means a big opportunity to make a hybrid if you wish. Just graft an outrunner to the generously proportioned shaft left after taking the generator off.
stator.jpg
 
I read quite a lot, and although I have never converted a motorcycle to electric, I have been fascinated by them. If you look locally, it shouldn't be too hard to find a used running motorcycle cheap (under $1,000), and then sell the engine/trans for half that.

Brammos and Zeros are still new enough, I doubt you can find one within a days drive cheap. Plus, a mainstream motorcycles will have a deep repair parts supply availability.

I'd recommend something with cast wheels. If it has spokes, they require tubes, and tubeless is MUCH better. Also, spokes can loosen and require re-truing over time.

What top speed do you want? I would suggest 72V as a minimum, and more is better...
 
When I was looking into doing this, I was also working on my 1985 VT1100C Shadow. I needed the turn signal/Horn switch.

This place had it and I also asked about rolling chassis. They said they have 40,000 bikes. Might be worth a look.

http://www.williescycle.com/home.htm

They were nice and helpful. Also, a 93-95 GSR Suzuki that Noha built is nice too, but I think his website said 9,000.
http://www.colorado.edu/physics/EducationIssues/podolefsky/electric_motorcycle_1.html

Your cheapest and up and running quick would be a used Zero, or X-treme.
[youtube]FwBsM2Dt0cE[/youtube]

Tommy L sends....
mosh.gif
 
I've never heard of any sort of spoke issue on mopeds or motorcycles. I think that's a bicycle thing because they're built to a minimum for weight. These old double cradle framed motos are an evolved chassis. Disc brakes and cast wheels are more about marketing than function. I had cast and spoke wheels that both needed tubes and never had flats on either.
 
I had a motorcycle with tubed tired, and I got a flat averaging once every two months. The tire didn't just go flat, as I was slowing the screw/nail would shred the hole, so...I had to buy a new tube each time. I began just stocking them.

I have taken tubeless tires, pulled the nail out, added a temp plug and aired it up with a fix-a-flat can...then ride home rather than needing a tow. I have avoided tubes on motorcycles from that time onward.
 
I plan to run at least 72v, the more the better as you say - because I can just cobble together all my ebike batteries in series to get enough power without big amps, for the time being. With a proper battery, I want 70mph ability. FWIW, I feel fine at 45mph on my mtn bike ebike, and I've raced bicycles for years. I don't plan on using lead, and did the calculations for lithium - battery weight won't be more than 100lbs or so. Again, I've ridden with tons of crap loaded on my bicycle, so I think even a small 100cc moto frame will have no problem with the weight and speed I want.

I use to ride an xr100 Honda when I was 10yrs old (I was a big 10 yr old). Fun bike/

There's a Kawasaki KE100 I am looking at tomorrow right near me. Might just buy that.

I plan to work on this project in steps. Possibly use low power stuff just to get a city emoto going to get me and my gf around. Then eventually build it up with highway power and speed. Either way, I know I want a lightweight platform.

I'm thinking of doing the bonded title route for a bike that is without one. Many bikes seem to be without a title and cost less.
 
Hi veloman,

Does it really need to go 70 mph? Interstate travel? How far? Craig Vetter recently build a full aero fairing for a Zero motorcycle that has 200 mile range at 65-70 mph with a 18 KWHr battery pack. But it's $18K :shock:

http://www.craigvetter.com/pages/2013%20Streamliner/2013-vetter-streamliner-Hershner-p64.html

Instead why not consider a hyper-efficient ICE scooter with an aero shell, like this custom created by Allert Jacobs from the Netherlands:

http://www.gizmag.com/honda-areodynamic-scooter-conversion/14071/

At 214 mpg, it'll get you into the same efficiency range of an electric bike charged off grid electricity. And at some point, you could modify the motor to use bio-fuels and go 100% carbon-neutral, if that is your goal.

Good luck with your project!
 
The KE100 would be great for this project, especially if you stick with lipo to keep the battery pack small and light. You should be able to find speed rated moped tires to keep things light with low rolling resistance.

The bonded title process in Texas is pretty involved but is not as bad if you are not in a hurry. Life is much easier if you can find a titled frame or register initially through another state and transfer that registration to Texas.
 
I have been following Terry Hershner and his Vetter fairing - I'd like to improve on that goal of low consumption at highway speed. 70mph is a long term goal. If this is a 50mph bike, I will still enjoy it. I want to stay electric because #1 - I don't want the emissions/oil industry support. Though the 214mpg bike is interesting (I read all about that a few years ago), I still prefer to do electric. I have high goals. I do want my transportation to be solar powered. I have over 1kw of cells/panels needing to be assembled.

I charge my ebike with a 75watt panel i built, and really enjoy it.

I ended up buying the ke100 today. $180. It fits me great IMO. Perfect size for what I wanted. 19" front wheel, 17" rear. 165lbs stock. Maybe 100lbs stripped and ready for EV parts.... I like the old style dual rear springs, and think it will help with supporting the additional structure I plan to build around the bike (aero shell, cargo carrying). The forks need new seals and fluid, and some minor rust to be sanded/painted on the frame/swingarm.

I'm trying to decide if I should buy one of Doc's Eteks from a Zero, or JohnInCr's hubmonster. I bet I could drive it with a 9c bare hub for slow city riding for now. My tandem with a 9c 2810 hauls my gf and I (total weight riders+bike of 400lbs) no problem at all with 2400watts peak.

+1 on the moped tires. I know tires are a key area to drop weight and decrease rolling resistance.

This will be a fun project. my gf likes the green - I might have to stick with that Kawasaki green when I finish it up.
 

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Very good score for the money and a +1 for keeping it Kawasaki green! I have read that the front wheel from a KX80 is a good swap for the KE and gives you a more powerful disc brake setup.
 
veloman said:
I ended up buying the ke100 today. $180. It fits me great IMO. Perfect size for what I wanted. 19" front wheel, 17" rear. 165lbs stock. Maybe 100lbs stripped and ready for EV parts.... I like the old style dual rear springs, and think it will help with supporting the additional structure I plan to build around the bike (aero shell, cargo carrying). The forks need new seals and fluid, and some minor rust to be sanded/painted on the frame/swingarm.

I'm trying to decide if I should buy one of Doc's Eteks from a Zero, or JohnInCr's hubmonster. I bet I could drive it with a 9c bare hub for slow city riding for now. My tandem with a 9c 2810 hauls my gf and I (total weight riders+bike of 400lbs) no problem at all with 2400watts peak.

+1 on the moped tires. I know tires are a key area to drop weight and decrease rolling resistance.

This will be a fun project. my gf likes the green - I might have to stick with that Kawasaki green when I finish it up.

Pop-green is the official descriptor, If I recall correctly. :mrgreen:

I did see some sort of spec sheet today that said 330 Lbs. total capacity, so that would make it mostly a personal device. If you needed to haul a passenger comfortably, then Ykick's advice would be the correct ballpark.

Ykick said:
I'm not up on the latest greatest for emoto converts but something more substantial in the 400cc Nighthawk, CB, KZ, RD, etc.,

To qualify further, if you'll have male passengers you'd want the bigger chassis. The smaller bikes are good for dating. 8)

I hadn't thought much about the rear frame on twin-shock models being more accommodating to battery panniers. Good foresight, there. I did use some of those mounting points for the dragstrip wheeliebar I made from round tube and steel cable, so I can attest to their utility.
 
My gf is 130lbs, so in total we are 305lbs :mrgreen: I'm keeping her around too, so no worries on future carrying capacity.

FWIW, I had her on the back of my ebike last week, on my street. She was somewhat okay with it (she just wanted footrests and a handlebar). So I have no worries this bike will feel rock solid with us.
 
Hey guys, help me out with some Moto knowledge. I think I got it right but I'm not certain.

Do all motorcycles use a 1" headtube?

I'm looking at buying some Yamaha r6 forks for the ke ($50 locally, comes with triple tree and bearings), so I can lower the front end and get disc brakes. Also its really hard to find 19" street tires, so a 17" front wheel will help with that, as well as help clearance issues with the front fairing (i will build) vs the big 19" wheel.

I did the bonded title route and got my title in my name. Cost total was $110.

Oh and I got a perm132 and 80v 600amp Kelly controller coming. Acceleration should be astounding if I get enough battery to push those amps. I'll limit it to 200 amps in the short term though. Still will smoke the stock ke100 in every way.
 
Congrats on clearing the legal hurdles.Here is a listing of tapered roller bearings for motorcycles, they come in many different sizes.
http://shop.marksman-ind.com/individual-taper-roller-bearings-45-c.asp

If you lower the front without lowering the rear, you'll have 'quicker', or twitchy steering and maybe more potential for tank-slapper dynamics.

I have a Perm 132 for a similar purpose and bookmarked LFP's dyno results as a reference for how much to expect:
[can't find thread] Summary from memory: 7.5 HP continuous (@72V, I assume), which would be 5 HP @48V, more if forced air-cooled. Good for up to 40 HP burst.[EDIT] My memory seems to be optimistic. Needs a support bearing at end of shaft if you're going to mount a sprocket.

[EDIT- found thread]
liveforphysics said:
A great example is the Perm132 motor. I can dyno over 28hp with it. In continuous operation, it melts and flings solder out of the rotor and a measly ~3.5hp continuous. Put a big fan on it, you can run ~5-6hp continuously.
Re: Pikes Peak, Electric Mountain Climbers...

In this thread LFP shows how he improved thermal heat transfer by removing the unneeded varnish:
Perm 132 disassembled. Did he use peanut butter?
132fins.jpg
 
Thanks for the info. I can also drop the rear about an inch with the shock adjustments.

I'll prob just measure my steering and see if it matches. Hard to find this info online.


On insurance: I found I can use Progressive and it's only $77/yr. Does anyone know of any other companies that might be cheaper? I am quite satisfied with that price, not much at all! Geico was $101.

Update: engine is out, that weighed 43lbs. Bike is 95lbs with just frame, wheels, forks, bars, kickstand etc. Forks are heavy - 16lbs. Front wheel with tire is 16lbs. Would a cast aluminum wheel be lighter?

Steered tube is 1", with bike style bearing. Not sure if I could put a slant bearing in.
 
Here's what it looks like without the nasty ICE stuff, some flat steel mtb handlebars and a cheap chinese hall throttle.

I bought a Yamaha DT100 front wheel (18") in the hopes it would fit my forks and I could find a street tire for it. It doesn't fit (wrong size axle).

I'm playing with using a mtb front brake cable, but attaching it to the brake arm is tricky. I might have to buy another KE100 brake cable. (mine is frozen).

I did manage to sell the motor, gas tank and a plastic for $90 total. Yay.

But I am going crazy trying to find a 2.75" 19" front street tire. Thought about switching out the forks and putting in disc forks with a 17" street wheel.

I got a 17" x 2,75" moped tire for the rear, rated for 94mph. It's light and looks like a beefy mtb tire.

I started making a mount for the motor. It has to go on the left side and stick out since it's CW rotation only. Perm132.

I'm also going crazy finding a sprocket to fit this motor! 19mm bore is rare. Luckily DocBass has a 16t 420 sprocket for it. I had bought a 428 chain and sprockets kit, mounted the 50t rear sprocket. But now I need to go back to 420 chain. Of course, finding a 420 rear sprocket to easily fit this hub is going to be hard!

IF I run my 428 chain on this 16tooth 420 front sprocket, that will give me a top speed of 63mph. That's faster than I wanted for now with the limited power/battery. Unless I get a bigger rear sprocket to fit than the current 50 tooth.

Yay for the motorcycle industry - where nothing is standard! Everything is different on every bike and trying to piece one together for low cost is insanely hard!

Some good news - I built my other 72v 8ah 38120HP Headway pack and fit it nicely in a Pelican 1300 case. That is the other half of my emoto battery. (or two ebike batteries, good for 60 miles total range on the ebike. I rode my ebike today with both on it. It's a slug for changing direction, but cruises fine.

So I plan to run 72v 16ah high power lifepo4 (partly a123, part HP Headway). Theoretically the cells can push 20-30c peak, but the wiring I wouldn't go above 10c or 160amps peak for very long. That gives me 11.2kw - enough to do whatever I need, even with my gf on. With that said, i did buy 4awg wire and a 300amp fuse for the emoto wiring. If I ride this bike easy, I think I can get 40wh/mile around town and 25mile range on just this little 30lb pack. Afterall, I get 20wh/mile average on my 100lb ebike with no pedaling and including some 30-35mph sections.

Would you believe that the ke100 as shown in this pic rolls easier than my 75lb ebike? Well that's due to the drag of the cylte HT hub on the ebike. The Perm132 has very little cogging torque, I can spin the axle with my fingers. Try that with a Clyte HT!

Anyways. Help me me out with any suggestions on getting this wheel situation figured out.
 
The KLX lineup has disc brakes. I wonder if just getting a rolling chassis with the equipment levels you want isn't the best route.

The Perm rotational direction thing, total reduction, and sprocket size/placement would be helped by the use of a jackshaft.

Check out this chassis:
Standard equipment.jpg
Dual headlighta.jpg
 
Haha, nice. The thing is, I want to keep suspension travel to road type levels..... I think. My end goal is an aero street bike with my custom fairing work. I suppose with longer travel I may just ride higher, which doesn't necessarily make me less aero, as long as my body position is the same.

But yes, I am considering another bike to fix the front end issues I am facing. I also would like to get a lower seat height....

Best route may be to keep my ke stock and just get that brake cable. I would like to finish this before end of summer.
 
I came across some SLA 17ah bricks. 6 of them, so 72v. one pair is brand new (22ah label), another is a good quality MK agm, used but taken care of, and another cheapo 18ah pair that still work okay. Tonight I put them all in series and on one of my ebikes (ouch! 80lbs of lead!). I did 6.5ah and stopped when the resting voltage of the weakest pair hit around 12.38v. Still got a bunch more left.

Is there any good reason to put these on the emoto build? I think it would be okay for a longer distance / lower power riding. But overall, not worth the added weight. It rides VERY similar to my 23s lifepo4 packs, so I could likely parallel them together. 72 -77v range. At 40wh/mile I would get about another 13 miles range with the SLA added. But performance would lag at the same power output.

Other uses for the SLA - solar bank. But that doesn't reap much reward since I already directly charge my batts with my solar panel.

Put them on an Emoto electric scooter (35mph class) for extra range.

Thoughts?

I just think I may be better off with even laptop cells on any decent ebike/moto.
 
I figured out that on the KE100, I could just flip the swing arm upside-down, to easily get the chain on the right side. (Rear dropouts are not the same size, due to the axle design). Now my clockwise rotation Perm132 won't be sticking out the side! Just need to do a little drilling and welding to secure the rear shocks. And likely make my own brake lever for my left foot.

I got my 17x2.75" tire on the back https://www.treatland.tv/heidenau-K36-17-x-2-75-47P-moped-tire-p/heidenau-k36-17x2.75-tire.htm
It has a very nice profile. I can't see this having much more rolling resistance than my 26x2.4" CST Cyclops bike tires.

Front tire/wheel is staying stock for now. I have plans to make my own disk brake mount on the stock forks. They are steel, so I will wrap a steel mount around, and then do some welding to secure it. I want to put another 17" wheel on the front to aid in aero shell clearance, lower ride height and large selection of street tires.

I made a motor mounting plate yesterday from 1/4" aluminum. Should help act as a heat sink. Thanks to MS Paint, I was able to print an accurate sketch of the hole pattern and drill it correctly! :lol: Saved $38 there.

I got 4awg wire, 300 amp car audio fuses and holder, and a 500amp contactor. I want to easily be able to up the power when I have enough battery.

I am using 420 chain. I will have a 16 tooth motor sprocket and 56 tooth rear. This will net me 56mph top speed on 72v battery. Not too big of a gear to hurt my acceleration, but also enough speed to ride any non-highway road around town.
 
That's clever for the Perm direction accommodation. Beware, though, that your brake will be working in the opposite direction at the brake shoe/drum interface. Also, if you invert the Brake Panel Assembly, the brake arm will be vulnerable to snags from whatever you're driving over. If you rotate the assembly so that the torque link is on the bottom, your brake arm will need to be pulled to the rear in its original function.

I think these brakes may work ok if the brake cam (and brake arm) is twisting in the opposite direction because there is symmetry in the brake shoes, but take account that the brake cam will be using different points of contact on the brake shoes. You might be able to swap the brake shoes so that they will experience the same direction of rotation with the drum (as originally) and have the same point of contact with the cam.

This could be an opportunity to graft in a Jawa moped wheel with a right side solid-mount driven sprocket and cable operated brake. Because you won't have a clutch lever, you can then run the back brake cable to that position ala moped configuration and not need to make a new foot pedal. Then you would also have a ratchet-freewheel bicycle chain sprocket on the left side to use with a stink-bike engine for long-range capability and/or battery charging while driving or on the center stand.
 
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