Honda CBR 400 Trike w/ Dual Turnigy 80-100-A 180Kv

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Re: Honda CBR 400 Trike w/ Dual Turnigy 80-100-A 180Kv

Postby grindz145 » Thu Jan 27, 2011 8:58 am

liveforphysics wrote:Also, those cells are saggier than an obese grandmas chest (just so you're aware).

:lol: :lol: :lol: ahh my stomach, it hurts. I wouldn't push those cells past about 5C. Still not a horrible option. You realize how much energy you'll be wasting by adding 2 car wheels right... Not to mention removing all fun out of the motorcycle... 8)

Cool project regardless keep up the good work!
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Re: Honda CBR 400 Trike w/ Dual Turnigy 80-100-A 180Kv

Postby x88x » Thu Jan 27, 2011 2:36 pm

inspiredvoltfreak wrote:
x88x wrote:I just this last night, but since you're using car tires on the back tires, you might need to check your state regulations on trikes. I know in MD there's a regulation that the combined rear tire width on a trike cannot exceed a certain size. I forget what it is, but I believe it's quite large... Anyways, just something to check. Don't want to finish it and then get turned down when you go to register for a simple thing that would have been easily fixed.


I don't think this will be a problem as I've seen several bikes with complete car rear halves welded on driving around and they were licensed. I'm not going to be anywhere near that wide. But thanks!

Combined tire width, not vehicle width. But yeah, sounds like you might not have anything to worry about, especially since those tires aren't especially wide for car tires.
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Re: Honda CBR 400 Trike w/ Dual Turnigy 80-100-A 180Kv

Postby inspiredvoltfreak » Sat Feb 12, 2011 9:52 am

Motor Madness

Ok, so I was stalled a bit by not bieng able to get my el-cheapo controllers working, but the new kellys have come in and so I was finally able to get my hall sensors mounted on my motors and give them a test run. I learned a lot through this part of the project and my aim has been to try and document what I did clearly to help others considering using these motors. "Update: I was stalled even further from posting this update due to personal and work issues and feeling basically bagged for energy."

So heres what i did. I decided to place my sensors between the slots for a cleaner look and compactness, and it really wasnt that hard, except seperating the rotor from the stator, those magnets are really strong, but i came up with a simple method to get them seperate.

Motor disassembly
Step 1. remove the orange face on the bottom of the motor (where the wires come out)
Step 2. Remove the circlip and washer that lock the two pieces together
Step 3. Re-install the orange face with only 2 bolts
Step 4. install the aluminum mounting X with only 2 bolts
Step 5. Find the nose cone for the front of the blade and stand it up on the table
Step 6. Line up the bottom of the motor shaft with the top of the cone and push down.

The cone will push most of the way through the orange bottom facing and get the magnets far enough away from the stators that you can pull on the two halves to finish seperating.

Initial Testing
For my first trial I soldered wire leads to the hall sensors, wrapped electrical tape around the center terminal and then wrapped all three terminals together and stuck them in the slots wrapping packing tape around to ensure the halls didnt come out into the magnets.

P.S. I used an old usb printer cable for my wire leads. In USB there are 4 wires Red, Black, white, Green. But don't we need 5? Yes, and there is a wire shielding that is wrapped around all of these wires and connected to the computer case to discharge any static that might try to get through the cable, so this became my 5th lead. Allowed for a very clean installation. When wiring my halls I used red and black for power supplies and white and green for two of my 3 leads. I then took another white wire and put stripes on it with a sharpie marker and attached that to the shielding wire.

Image

My hall placement is marked in the following photo by the wire terminals i hung in the stator slots.

Hall Placement
I was hoping the motors were built exactly the same each time but that proved wrong (more on this later) I don't know if it really makes a difference which slots you put them in as long as they are 120 degrees apart.

Image

Important notes for testing
1. Use a current limited supply (I used my kellys with the motor and battery currents pushed down to bottom and running off a small 2.7 ah pack of batteries)
2. Test your halls b4 installation (I had one bad hall sensor that stalled progress for 15 minutes

For testing you can run all the wires out the back and terminate them externally to make the power connections. I did some testing and I got the motors running using the hall placement spreadsheet (used to keep track of wiring combinations) listed elsewhere on the forum. Will find the link later unless someone else posts it first. I was surprised by how little current the motor drew at idle speed. For me just 0.46 amps :shock: I had seen others posting 1.5 -2 amps. Runs really smooth! (Video at bottom of post)

So after a successful test run it was time to do the permanent installation. I disassembled the motor again and removed the hall sensors and the black tape from the halls.

Image

Next I put hot glue on the center terminal to insulate it from the others and bent the terminals as seen below (i found bending the hall leads made it easier to get the hall close to the face of the stator slots

Image

Then I painted the wire lead with Plasti-dip (brush on electrical tape would also work)

Image

This seals the connections and locks all the leads together so its kept compact.

Next I put down a strip of electrical tape in the stator slots to aid in getting the halls out without damaging the winding should one of them ever fail.

Image

This is as good a time as any to mention another issue i found. See below! :wink:

Image

Obviously, at 100 bucks a pop quality controll goes down the tube. I secured the loose wires with Lepage "flexible plastic adhesive" (AWESOME Stuff) and continued with my work.

Finally we come to glueing the sensors in. It's important to remember that having the hall sensors turned slightly will actually advance or retard the timing slightly so you want to get them as close to straight as possible. I used an epoxy to put them in because i had it handy but it would have been a better idea to use high temp rtv gasket sealer (sold in auto parts stores) to make removing them easier. Problem there is keeping them still while it sets.

Image

After installing all three i twisted the wire leads to "neatify" them

Image

And then soldered the leads all together keeping the wires as short as possible and plasti-dipped all connections

Image

I then pulled the USB cable through the back end to tighten up the wires a bit and then secured the wires down with a bit more plasti-dip

Image

Alll thats left now is to run the cable out the back end. I found it could not be run with one of the power wires as it was too tight in there so i opted to run it out one of the neighbouring holes. Here's how i did it.

Image
Image
ImageImage

And thats it!

Now for some motor running goodness!! :mrgreen:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxF5Zax380o

So, to save others time,
EDIT :D :D :D
for a kelly controller at least, the phase wires are (CONFIRMED)
A=Black
B=Red
C=Yellow

Hall wires for me were (WITH MY HALL WIRING scheme) (TO BE ADDED LATER)
B=green
G=red
Y=white

for one motor but for the other one it was different though still followed the same sequence (NEEDS TO BE CONFIRMED accidentaly deleted my notes)
B=white
G=green
Y=red
Last edited by inspiredvoltfreak on Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Honda CBR 400 Trike w/ Dual Turnigy 80-100-A 180Kv

Postby rebelpilot » Sat Feb 12, 2011 10:50 am

Nice project, but I have a minor concern.
Next I put hot glue on the center terminal to insulate it from the others

If there is trouble with the hall signal eventually, it may be caused by the glue softening and the leads shorting. It would appear that this is going to be a demanding application for these motors, and that they probably will get warm. The glue will melt at a temperature that wouldn't harm the wires or halls. The halls can withstand a 125C operating temperature and a 150C storage temperature. Hot melt glue can start flowing below 120C. A piece of wire insulation or heat shrink would be more durable for this application, or the plasti-dip without the hotglue.
The epoxy and plasti-dip you applied may keep everything in place and minimize the forces on the leads and help prevent them from moving together.
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Re: Honda CBR 400 Trike w/ Dual Turnigy 80-100-A 180Kv

Postby AussieJester » Sat Feb 12, 2011 7:41 pm

Nice write up buddy...i have one lil concern
also, it's been stated previous the Kelly controller isn't capable of the high electrical rpms
the 130kv Turnigy motor is capable of when run on 50v setup, and yours is the 180kv even higher rpms :-|
You mentioned you tested it on a small 2.8ah battery, what voltage though have you
tested on thus far? Best of luck anywayz :-)

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Re: Honda CBR 400 Trike w/ Dual Turnigy 80-100-A 180Kv

Postby inspiredvoltfreak » Mon Feb 14, 2011 3:56 pm

Ughh, KiM, :oops:
Your right, I did a little research on what you said and actually came back to your build log
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=12810&start=540
near the end of the page. Thankfully on the next page the motor poles were sorted out to be 7 pole pair not 12! That gives me some hope. So, as is, I am limited to about 5700rpm before the controller cant do no more. But something else came up that caught my attention, switching to wye from delta.

Re: Turnigy HXT Powered Custom Cruiser Worklog
by EV4LIFE » Tue Feb 02, 2010 4:39 am
And so it does say it, cool. so 70,000elec.rpm/12pole= 5833.33
lets say 66.6v, 5833.3/66.6= 87kv and under,
that's doable as, rewiring the HXT delta to wye/star gets the 130kv motor to about 75kv.
EV4LIFE


So here's some questions for people.

1. So I would imagine switching to Wye for my motor would give me somewhere in the 90-105kv range?? Does that seem to follow?

If so, that would put my max rpm at 48V 105kv to be 5040, which is in my rpm range for my current kellys. I am also emailing them to see what my options are from their end.

2. My understanding is switching it gives about half speed and near double torque. is that right?
3. Anyone suggest a guide on switching these motors from delta to wye? :|
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Re: Honda CBR 400 Trike w/ Dual Turnigy 80-100-A 180Kv

Postby Jeremy Harris » Mon Feb 14, 2011 4:10 pm

Bear in mind that switching from delta to wye significantly increases the winding resistance and so lowers the current that the motor will take before overheating.

The actual rewiring is usually fairly straightforward, just remove the sleeving from the three phase wires and separate out the strands of wire. You'll find that each bundle separates into two, the start of one winding and the end of the next. If you separate out and connect all the "ends" together then the "starts" become the phase wires and the motor will be wired in wye.

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Re: Honda CBR 400 Trike w/ Dual Turnigy 80-100-A 180Kv

Postby inspiredvoltfreak » Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:32 am

well,there's no way to color this pretty! :| I screwed up! I guess every project i've read had one or two of these with most people blowing ESC's wide open. I expected mistakes from the start and will have to roll with them.

I got an email back from kelly and they said the processor is soldered on and then epoxied so there's no way to swap it out. Unfortunately i would have to ship the controllers back and exchange them if they'll even let me, (EDIT: THEY WONT) As much as I hate to even think about it. If I had to go the route of selling my kellys and buying an infineon and modding it with the 4110's what model should I be looking for and what was it's price? I contacted ecrazyman on ebay with basically this question and never got a response so I bought the kelly's instead thinking a professionally made e-motorcycle controller would be high speed by default. :oops:

I think I'm gona go the road of wiring in wye, because it's the only no cost option at this point. What do you guys think about that? Good idea or am I wasting time? Is there an easy way to know the "ends" from the "starts" once i get the wires seperated? or does it even matter. Just make sure i have the ends of the wires identified with an ohm meter to know which ones go together to form a coil. Also, with what your saying, the phase leads will be half the diameter because they will have only one wire instead of two. Was my guess right about the torque? Can i expect close to double torque at half speed? And how much should I expect the max amps to change? Thanks for all the help by the way!
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Re: Honda CBR 400 Trike w/ Dual Turnigy 80-100-A 180Kv

Postby inspiredvoltfreak » Wed Feb 16, 2011 5:19 pm

I really hate the idea of going lower rpm higher amps. I just cant see that bieng a good thing. I want a high ratio to make it easier for the motors to start. I'm ready to try again with the controllers but I'm not buying anything till I get some feedback. I'm wondering if this ecrazyman controller http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300502501774&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en#ht_1237wt_1140 will work for my setup and if it will handle the rpms specifically, I know I would have to mod the traces and swap fets to get appropriate amperage, i'm up for that. Could this controller be run at 48 volts to start and then upped later if I decide to? Anyone have experience with this controller. Or would you suggest something else?
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Re: Honda CBR 400 Trike w/ Dual Turnigy 80-100-A 180Kv

Postby AussieJester » Wed Feb 16, 2011 5:56 pm

inspiredvoltfreak wrote:Could this controller be run at 48 volts to start and then upped later if I decide to? Anyone have experience with this controller. Or would you suggest something else?


In a word yes. Theres an ever increasing number buying Infionions (myself included) for the sensored Turnigy setups, and yes you
will need better fets (either 4110/15's ? or 3077 fets i believe) and beefed up traces. The master Jeremy Harris has also
designed a controller specifically for these setups which will blow everything currently available, away. Unfortunately they aren't
in production yet, i believe J.H is still testing the unit, awesome dyno you made for the job too Jeremy. If your electronically
inclined all the information on how to build one yourself has generously been made available by Jeremy and can be found in
Jeremy's Simply BLDC controller thread

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Re: Honda CBR 400 Trike w/ Dual Turnigy 80-100-A 180Kv

Postby inspiredvoltfreak » Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:30 pm

Thanks KiM,
I checked out Jeremy's Unit. Whoa, too scary for me. But looks like he's doing a great job! I think i will probably go with the infineon one but I just want to confirm the electrical rpm this will handle b4 i make another purchase. I like the idea of bieng able to run my motors on 72V and gear down if i want to. But at 72v 180kv is, drum roll please, 12,960 rpm! times 7 pole pair is (bigger drum roll) 90,720 eRPM Ouch!! Probably not going to happen. I ebay messaged ecrazyman to ask him as well.
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Re: Honda CBR 400 Trike w/ Dual Turnigy 80-100-A 180Kv

Postby inspiredvoltfreak » Fri Feb 18, 2011 4:37 am

Ok, so turns out I got confused. I thought ecrazyman on ebay was lyen on ES. Lyen corrected me and now my head stopped spinning. Just in case anyone else is looking for the info on eRPM I'll post what Lyen himself said"
1. The maximum electrical RPM (ERPM) using a Turnigy 215Kv RC 7 pole pair motor at that is 84000 RPM or about physical 12000rpm at no load. It was tested at 60V. A 270Kv motor can potentially go up to 17143 RPM or 120000 ERPM. Motor RPM limit = electrical RPM limit / number of magnet pole pairs.

2. The controller utilizes the news switching regulation circuitry instead of the older design that requires three power resistors. Therefore, you can operates it at a much higher voltage range without the need to make changes. The controllers I see have preset range from 36-84v. Other voltage range is also available upon request.

3. Yes, the wiring diagram and step by step installation instruction will be provided upon purchase. It will be in plain English with proper grammar of course. LOL

4. Yes, the controller is fully compatible with both hall effect sensor type throttle as well as the 5K throttle such as the ones being used by Currie and Magura. In fact, I do use the Magura throttle myself.


Soooooo, doing 72 Volts IS a possibility with Lyens controller. Probably the route I'll go! Just seems to make sense.

I have asked Lyen to suggest a controller for me due to my bad choices so far. I'm sure he will steer me right. Gotta get those Kellys up 4 sale on craigslist.
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Re: Honda CBR 400 Trike w/ Dual Turnigy 80-100-A 180Kv

Postby inspiredvoltfreak » Sun Feb 20, 2011 8:39 pm

2 18 fet infineons ORDERED! :twisted:
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Re: Honda CBR 400 Trike w/ Dual Turnigy 80-100-A 180Kv

Postby Dangle_kt » Tue Feb 22, 2011 5:34 pm

Good news!

Keep it up - Turnigy using that controller with halls is the way I plan on going if my scoot build ever gets off the drawing board, so I am following with interest!
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Re: Honda CBR 400 Trike w/ Dual Turnigy 80-100-A 180Kv

Postby inspiredvoltfreak » Mon Feb 28, 2011 11:39 am

Hey, Just wanted to give a little update. I was stalled for a bit with various issues around the bike. Had to go back to the salvage yard and exchange the tires and brake components for ones from a different vehicle so I could get lighter ones. As a esult I'm going with 12" rims from a honda Civic instead of 13" rims from a hyundai. Changing out these parts saved me 40 lbs. The complete parts now weigh 80lbs which is twice as much as the original back tire, but not three times! I've also been waiting on some gearboxes from HK only to realize they came all the way to canada, through customs, to richmond then to langley (where I live) and then 1 day later made the return trip to HK :!: :x I called Canada Post and gave them the what for and they said " duh, i dunno, contact the seller and get him to re-ship them" :? I'm not impressed! But they're on there way back and i didn't have to re-pay for the shipping so I guess alls well.

I'm currently working on getting the rear frame made. I mocked up the components onto the frame with just one 1/2" bolt per side so I could get an idea of what i wanted. As far as front to back the wheels are in the same position as the stock tire, but the center of the wheel is about 1" lower than the MC tire. I am still lowering the frame in the back so I will be doing that through how I mount the wheel assemblies to the rear frame. The rear frame will be coming in below the rear axle in the actual build. As well the spacing of the wheels will be wider. Currently the width of the outside to outside of the tires is 23" but i am shooting for 33"-36" when i do the rear frame up. Pics to follow.
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Re: Honda CBR 400 Trike w/ Dual Turnigy 80-100-A 180Kv

Postby inspiredvoltfreak » Sun Mar 06, 2011 1:36 am

Hey Guys,
I need some advice. I've been playing around with the configuration of my bike and I've hit a bit of a wall where I'm not sure how to proceed. My original plan was 4 group 24 12 volt batteries for 48 volt in a removable battery box between the back wheels so i could wheel the batteries inside to charge. I always had concerns about unsprung weight but I'm just now realizing that not only would it be unsprung but it will actually have to be some of the weight behind the rear wheel center so it will actually slightly counteract the suspension and be trying to lift me up. I really don't want to go that route. It would have been 2 batts wide with two more stacked vertically. See pic.
Image
I may still be forced to go this route so any input or suggestions would be appreciated. After spending some time with the bike having the rear frame mocked up (only one bolt holding it together on each side) I came to realize something See pic 2.
Image

I know i can do this configuration with group 24s and go to 72 volts but the batteries would have to be permanently mounted. I'm almost certain I could even fit group 27's in the frame which would boost me up by 20ah to a total of 72 volt 115ah. This is the route I really want to go. Was, and still am, considering LIPO but I need to have a return on investment from this thing and that would take 2 years if I bought LIPO as opposed to 7 months to pay it off with lead acid. (The batteries will actually fit inside the frame despite my quick drawing)

The only thing holding me back from this configuration is charging. I cant get my bike close to a power outlet at work or at home. No outlet, no charge, no run! I have asked my strata council to consider allowing me to get an outlet installed in my parking stall so I can charge at home without removing the batteries (will have to wait till the strata meeting to hear back) I found I can get close to one outlet at work but I would have to get permission to park my bike on a corner of the loading dock or see if there's some other place I can plug in.

I tried sitting on the bike and bouncing the suspension and rocking the bike side to side and it feels very stable and thats without the batteries installed so I think it's going to be a very nice stable ride when it's done. Getting excited! But i gotta be able to charge it somehow. If i cant go the route I want to I will have to look at doing two seperate battery boxes I think and finding some easy way to get a 141 lb battery box out of the centre frame. Really don't want to go that route.

I'm thinking if i go 72 volts my amps will be lower which means i'll suffer less from the peukert effect. Does this follow???
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Re: Honda CBR 400 Trike w/ Dual Turnigy 80-100-A 180Kv

Postby inspiredvoltfreak » Sun Mar 06, 2011 11:20 am

Just wanted to show a pic with everything the way I left it last night. Gives you some vague idea of the finished look of the bike.
Image

I'm stalled until after the strata meeting as far as modding the rear frame anymore so I will be working on the motor/gearbox related stuff. Also waiting on my 18 fets from lyen.
Last edited by inspiredvoltfreak on Sun Mar 13, 2011 2:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Honda CBR 400 Trike w/ Dual Turnigy 80-100-A 180Kv

Postby Cybernezz » Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:02 am

inspiredvoltfreak wrote:
I know i can do this configuration with group 24s and go to 72 volts but the batteries would have to be permanently mounted. I'm almost certain I could even fit group 27's in the frame which would boost me up by 20ah to a total of 72 volt 115ah. This is the route I really want to go. Was, and still am, considering LIPO but I need to have a return on investment from this thing and that would take 2 years if I bought LIPO as opposed to 7 months to pay it off with lead acid. (The batteries will actually fit inside the frame despite my quick drawing)

The only thing holding me back from this configuration is charging. I cant get my bike close to a power outlet at work or at home. No outlet, no charge, no run! I have asked my strata council to consider allowing me to get an outlet installed in my parking stall so I can charge at home without removing the batteries (will have to wait till the strata meeting to hear back) I found I can get close to one outlet at work but I would have to get permission to park my bike on a corner of the loading dock or see if there's some other place I can plug in.



Hey inspiredvoltfreak,


I've seen a couple of builds that have encompased a power-chord extention lead on board bikes; I would have thought that it might be easier to have a recall-chord built onto the bike?

Is it possible to make the battery pack/chest hot swapable / esp if it was lipo so that it can be removed easily to take indoor? - guess SLAs would be very heavy for that thpe of solution.

:?:
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Re: Honda CBR 400 Trike w/ Dual Turnigy 80-100-A 180Kv

Postby inspiredvoltfreak » Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:10 am

Well, heres the situation. I live in an apartment building on the first floor. Even though I could run an extension cord out my door and get it to the bike parked on the street my strata council would not take to kindly to that as they are very image concious (so am I for that matter). The extension cord would run down the side of the building, through a raised garden, down the side of the garden and across the wheelchair ramp. :| . Thats why I need to get a power cord set up in my stall.

I'm still looking for a place to charge at work as well. I found one good option but again it crosses a foot path so I may not be able to use that one. Have to see what I can figure out.

As a small update, worked last night on wiring repairs to the bike side of the system. Got that all figured out except i need a new flasher relay. I bought a cheap one on ebay and when I got it the lights just stayed on and the relay buzzed constantly. I triple checked all my relays and did other testing getting very frustrated. Finally i decided th whack the relay against the frame and (blink, blink, blink) only it was too fast. I opened the relay and found a ton of resistors standing vertically off the board and with nothing securing them from moving. One of the resistor leads was leaning against another resistor lead making a connection that wasnt supposed to be there. :shock: :evil: I bent it out of the way so no leads are touching but this unit is unpredictable at best, blinking at whatever speed it feels like. Typical chinese crap :roll:

I may actually convert it into an astable multivibrator with a 555 timer to run the relay clicker and just do it myslef! At least I know that'd be bulletproof. This was the cheap clickers on ebay mine was $1 with free shipping. :roll: I'm an idiot some times :wink:
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Re: Honda CBR 400 Trike w/ Dual Turnigy 80-100-A 180Kv

Postby Cybernezz » Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:30 am

Ah I see your issue ref the apartment voltfreak...

Its a pitty this type of tech isnt mainstream yet:

http://fwd.channel5.com/fifth-gear/blog ... recharging

http://www.theengineer.co.uk/news/wirel ... 43.article



I guess your only solution would be to either build it with removable batteries/battery unit so that it can be done in doors - or make sure that whichever technology you follow i.e. sla/lipo that you get enough charge whilst at work :)


Buying things off eBay is a right gamble isnt it :) I love buying things from China/America/Japan anywhere to be honest - hobbycity is a great example of that working really well - its just a pitty when a few ******* sell you crap, but your right with the price of them its no surprise sometimes.

My brother bought a new laptop charger a couple of months back from China.. took a while to come and when it got here it made the laptop smoke before finishing it off for good.
-1 laptop becuase of a cheap crappy charger from china...


I'd be inclined to have a metal trunk on the back of the trike, have some 30c lipo in there to allow abit of quicker charging - and part of the trunk would have a build in lipo charger for when your on the move - with a retractable chord.
At home, remove (make a easy on/off mechanism) and charge where-ever safest without having to remove the lipo from the sealed metal trunk;
On the road - extend the chord where poss and make the most of the free electric :)

You could even turn half the trunk into storage for helmet/bag anything I guess?
Despite all my practice, pushing bikes home still knock's the sh*t out of me..
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Re: Honda CBR 400 Trike w/ Dual Turnigy 80-100-A 180Kv

Postby inspiredvoltfreak » Wed Mar 09, 2011 3:38 pm

Yeah, Lipo would be great! but using the best cheap ones from Hobby City would cost me about $2500 and I'm just not ready to shell out that kind of change. Besides, I'm hoping the carbon lead acid battery finally becomes available here within a year or two. (search elecsol, theyre available Overseas) If not, when I pay off the initial build I may consider Lipo at that point. But depends how it's working with the lead Acids.
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Re: Honda CBR 400 Trike w/ Dual Turnigy 80-100-A 180Kv

Postby Cybernezz » Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:11 pm

Hey voltfreak,


Finally had time to read all of your build, I see your issues now mate... :|

If you manage to get the gearing right on the gear boxes that you've ordered surely that could tick a couple of boxes?
Would have thought you could reduce the overall voltage you need thus reducing the weight of the SLAs?
Also if you still have the issue with the higher RPM and the controller you have, again that would be fixed wouldnt it?

I've just started reading up on other trike projects so if I see anything obvious I'll come back with it :)
Despite all my practice, pushing bikes home still knock's the sh*t out of me..
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Re: Honda CBR 400 Trike w/ Dual Turnigy 80-100-A 180Kv

Postby inspiredvoltfreak » Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:29 pm

Yeah, just came upon a realization. Lead acids suffer from peukert effect (which i knew) This means the faster you discharge your batteries the less available amp hours in the battery (based on the C rating). To get say 20hp from a motor you can do it through high voltage or high amps or try to even the two out somewhere in the middle. 1 Horsepower is 746 watts so 20x746= 14920 watts. we can get that much watts by 48V x 310A or else we can get it by 72V x 207A. Do you see the trick? A lead acid battery has a C rating of around 1C My continuous draw at highway speed level ground will be 103.5A at 72V and I am getting 115AH batteries. I should then hopefully get close to my rated Amp hours out of the batteries by going this route. I think a lot of guys make a mistake by trying to cram tons of smaller batteries into their frames. Smaller batteries weigh a lot for the amp hours available and they cant put out the C! My only fear is whether this bike will be too heavy but I have access to used batteries with about 60% capacity still in them to try it out with before I go make the battery purchase. So, we'll see how goes.
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Re: Honda CBR 400 Trike w/ Dual Turnigy 80-100-A 180Kv

Postby x88x » Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:39 pm

inspiredvoltfreak wrote:My continuous draw at highway speed level ground will be 103.5A at 72V and I am getting 115AH batteries.

The problem you're going to run into there is that if your highway cruising power draw is actually 103.5A (I would question that; from what I've seen, since cruising speeds tends to be past the current peak if geared properly, so you shouldn't need nearly that much power to maintain speed), then it's going to take a lot more current than that to accelerate to that cruising speed in any sort of a reasonable time.
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Re: Honda CBR 400 Trike w/ Dual Turnigy 80-100-A 180Kv

Postby Hillhater » Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:35 pm

inspiredvoltfreak wrote: ....My continuous draw at highway speed level ground will be 103.5A at 72V and I am getting 115AH batteries. ....


IF those details are accurate,..you do realise how limited your range /run time will be ?? :?
..and i hope you never have to climb a hill anywhere ! :shock:
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