Page 1 of 7

Andre´s GSXR 1000 K2 with QS Motor 273 80H, 34kW

Posted: Jul 25, 2016 3:25 am
by Rovi
After my last bike creation:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=75695&p=1198227#p1198227
I will start my new bike project in parallel.
The design has been done. Now the welder knows what to do :-).
I already ordered the new 273 air cooled motor ...
let´s see what happens ...

By the way is there existing a bigger controller for bldc motors as Kelly KHB14601 (Higher voltage and current level)?

Andre

Re: Black RAP-THOR

Posted: Jul 26, 2016 12:38 am
by Rovi
Getting new stuff like charger, fuse holder and 400A fuse

Controller

Posted: Jul 26, 2016 10:18 am
by Rovi
Hey guys,
I hope you can help me regarding the right controller for the above mentioned motor
http://www.cnqsmotor.com/en/article_read_378.html
I have ordered him without water cooling because I only want to use him for drag race.
At the moment I know that the motor can handle up to 685A phase current. And QS offers him only as 3 phase version (not 2x 3 phase!)
So the max current can support only KHB14601 with 600A for one minute @ 176VDC battery supply (124VDC motor phase voltage).
With this high current the motor will spend over 400Nm but I think it is not possible to get the force of the ground.
I know it from some turbo hayabusa with over 400hp that they will have problems to get their power on track and will have to fight with spinning wheel and traction.
By the way the top speed will end at 180kph!
So I asked QS motors what will happen if I only get 450A to the motor.
Maybe I will not get so much torque and therefore no traction problems.
So the is existing another controller which has a little bit more voltage.
The question is now what happens to the motor when I will increase the voltage to the motor?
Will it run faster? I think so but what can be the max. Voltage to such a hubless motor?
Any ideas?
Thanks Andre

Re: Controller

Posted: Jul 29, 2016 6:10 pm
by macribs
Rovi wrote:Hey guys,
I hope you can help me regarding the right controller for the above mentioned motor
http://www.cnqsmotor.com/en/article_read_378.html
I have ordered him without water cooling because I only want to use him for drag race.
At the moment I know that the motor can handle up to 685A phase current. And QS offers him only as 3 phase version (not 2x 3 phase!)
So the max current can support only KHB14601 with 600A for one minute @ 176VDC battery supply (124VDC motor phase voltage).
With this high current the motor will spend over 400Nm but I think it is not possible to get the force of the ground.
I know it from some turbo hayabusa with over 400hp that they will have problems to get their power on track and will have to fight with spinning wheel and traction.
By the way the top speed will end at 180kph!
So I asked QS motors what will happen if I only get 450A to the motor.
Maybe I will not get so much torque and therefore no traction problems.
So the is existing another controller which has a little bit more voltage.
The question is now what happens to the motor when I will increase the voltage to the motor?
Will it run faster? I think so but what can be the max. Voltage to such a hubless motor?
Any ideas?
Thanks Andre

power = volt x amp. If you can't up the amp you can up the volt. But I don't think that is the whole picture. As massive amps will spin up the motor way faster with a little less top speed. If you increase voltage rather then amps your motor will spin faster and get a higher top speed. at the cost of a little less acceleration.

Upping the voltage will give your motor higher RPM and more top speed. If you run peak amp at 450 or 600 I don't think you need to worry about traction too much, at least not on a drag strip with the the sticky surface. But getting the throttle ramp up correct will stop you from flipping the bike due to high power unleashed at once.

For max acceleration run more amps. If you find yourself a controller that peaks at 600 amp it will accelerate quicker then one at 450.

I run the much smaller QS 205 and am pretty happy with its performance, the larger 273 must be insane :twisted:

Re: Black RAP-THOR

Posted: Aug 01, 2016 2:33 am
by Rovi
Maybe I found now a new controller!
He is only working with 120VDC but can handle field weakening.
So the max current of motor can be reached now!

I made already a design for the bike and the frame is already in progress!

Re: Andre´s Black RAP-THOR

Posted: Aug 07, 2016 12:58 pm
by Rovi
Motor is ready for shipping :-)

Re: Andre´s Black RAP-THOR

Posted: Aug 07, 2016 1:24 pm
by macribs
Your design always make me think of gothic garden gates.

Re: Andre´s Black RAP-THOR

Posted: Aug 08, 2016 5:12 am
by Rovi
What do you mean with gothic garden gates?
Good or bad design?

I like this style but it will be the last bike project for me!

Re: Andre´s Black RAP-THOR

Posted: Aug 08, 2016 5:48 am
by macribs
No it is not bad, it is just very different. Cool but different. Your bikes are purposed build to serve your need so that is very cool. Whats better then standing out from the crowd?


Here is like a mainstream wrought iron gate http://www.amoy-ironart.com/wp-content/ ... G_0991.jpg
Here is gothic gate http://www.sculpturalgates.com/new_images/gate23a.jpg

See the lines and curvatures of the design?

Re: Andre´s Black RAP-THOR

Posted: Aug 24, 2016 2:51 am
by Rovi
BLACK RAP-THOR died!
I will use the motor now for another bike project!

Re: Andre´s Black RAP-THOR

Posted: Aug 25, 2016 3:51 pm
by Rovi
New motor arrived but still waiting on the frame :-(.
So I think to implement it in an available GSXR 1000
QS Motor, air cooled 273 80H version, 144V, 39,5kg, 14/34kW, 685A phase current, over 400Nm

Re: Andre´s Black RAP-THOR

Posted: Aug 26, 2016 5:33 am
by Rube
Hi awesome build. Can you please explain a bit more about the second post.

Re: Andre´s Black RAP-THOR

Posted: Aug 27, 2016 8:30 am
by Rovi
You mean the parallel boards and the two time 400A fuse holder?
It's very easy ... First I wanna go with Emsiso emDrive500 controller.
120V/800A controller (field wreaking controller type) because QS-Motors said that motor can handle up to 800A.
Therefore I wanted to go with 4-6 parallel batteries and two times 400A main contactor. The price for this controller type is 1850€ here in Europe.
But then I got the information that 600A are enough for my 7T winding.
And so I decide me now to go with KHB14601 (176,4VDC battery supply, max 600A for one minute).
The parallel boards are to get the 4-6 parallel batteries to one voltage level when connecting them.
So they all should have the same voltage level and then no sparks will be created!
The fuse holders will be now equipped with two 300A fuses!
And this is the GSXR 1000 which is available

Re: Andre´s Black RAP-THOR

Posted: Oct 04, 2016 3:17 am
by Rovi
GSXR 1000 is stripped to 84kg.
Lamp cover is fixed.
Fork suspension will be reduced to max of 40mm full load conditions.

Re: Andre´s Black RAP-THOR goes to GSXR 1000 K2

Posted: Oct 04, 2016 6:50 am
by litespeed
Looks like a fun build.

Tom

Re: Andre´s Black RAP-THOR goes to GSXR 1000 K2

Posted: Oct 04, 2016 6:51 am
by macribs
Wow, things are getting serious now. Cool.

You could probably drop close to 10-12 maybe even 15 kilos on the front end. Swapping the fork for a DH fork, with DH brakes and lighter rim and tire.
Or just keep it as it is, and roll up to the drag strip position with a silent and mean looking Gixxer.

Re: Andre´s Black RAP-THOR

Posted: Oct 04, 2016 2:41 pm
by liveforphysics
Rovi wrote:New motor arrived but still waiting on the frame :-(.
So I think to implement it in an available GSXR 1000
QS Motor, air cooled 273 80H version, 144V, 39,5kg, 14/34kW, 685A phase current, over 400Nm

That looks like the right hubmotor to make a very quick EV! Woot!!

Re: Andre´s Black RAP-THOR goes to GSXR 1000 K2

Posted: Oct 05, 2016 2:47 am
by Rovi
litespeed wrote:Looks like a fun build.

Tom
Yes, it is a fun build!
I only want to use the standard GSXR 1000 fork and lower it.
I cut off the GSXR 600 swing arm to check the adapters I have to design.
I want to build a variable swingarm ... not so easy with the axcle fixing but maybe I found now a solution.
So I can use standard wheel base distance ... up to 30cm over series (in 10cm steps).
How fast it will be I really do not now but hope to reach end speed within the 402m :-) what ever it will be!

The weight of the complete bike will be around 150kg (42S4P) at the end, maybe 144kg if I go only with 42S3P but than the batteries will be stressed much more!

Re: Andre´s Black RAP-THOR goes to GSXR 1000 K2

Posted: Oct 05, 2016 5:05 pm
by macribs
42s just that alone is amazing. I wonder what your quarter mile will be.

Re: Andre´s Black RAP-THOR goes to GSXR 1000 K2

Posted: Oct 07, 2016 3:31 am
by Rovi
150/60-17 tyre in 4,5" rim of hubmotor

75mm fork suspension on no load

Re: Andre´s Black RAP-THOR goes to GSXR 1000 K2

Posted: Oct 09, 2016 4:38 am
by Rovi
55mm ground clearance:


Image

Image

Re: Andre´s Black RAP-THOR goes to GSXR 1000 K2

Posted: Oct 09, 2016 10:48 am
by macribs
Nice low rider, look forward to see bike on the strip.

Re: Andre´s Black RAP-THOR goes to GSXR 1000 K2

Posted: Oct 19, 2016 1:44 am
by Rovi
Now I put rear suspension back to the motorcycle and the tail rise up to the sky.
But with the self made lowering kit I get the tail back to ground and the fairing near the rear wheel has now 4,5cm distance to ground. So I have to wait until the rear swingarm will be ready.
At the moment it is not possible to leave the trail because of to steep ramp.
So for future I have to think about another solution to lift the bike up into and out of the trailer ;-)

Re: Andre´s GSXR 1000 K2 with QS Motor 273 80H

Posted: Nov 14, 2016 8:28 am
by Rovi
I have decided me now for the cheapest option of controller and
ordered now Kelly KHB14601C.

Re: Andre´s GSXR 1000 K2 with QS Motor 273 80H

Posted: Nov 14, 2016 5:23 pm
by macribs
Rovi wrote:I have decided me now for the cheapest option of controller and
ordered now Kelly KHB14601C.

Are you sure that the cheapest option is the Kelly? Iirc the price tag is well north of a 1.000 $?
I think QS has an APT controller that also runs high voltage > 120v and max phase 650 A. Should match the Kelly pretty much straight up. The APT controller is like 450-500 $ or so. It is a sine wave with ovs options.

So it should really be possible to to drive that 273 at max. Check with Vito, I am sure he will hook you up. Should make that gixxer fly of the line and still save you a nice chunk of change to spend an extra 8-900 $ on batteries and still leave you with enough money left for a few cases of your favorite beer.