Apollo 250 Dirt Bike Conversion

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dirkdiggler
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Re: Apollo 250 BHT Dirt Bike Conversion

Post by dirkdiggler » Aug 01, 2017 2:44 pm

Much appreciated as always! I kept reading the PDF from Kelly trying to figure it out. Spent hours searching the web. Came across this post from Luna Cycle's forum on how to hook it up to the Cyclone.
Red (no #, from throttle switch/key): Battery pos (+) out (connects to cyclone motor pcb and thermostat, then loops back to Pink (#7) to power controller
Black 2 Pin (male, wired to 7 pin): Throttle power switch/key (no numbers assigned to wires)
Red (bullet to black 2 pin, power in): Battery pos (+) to throttle switch/key
Red (black 2 pin to black 7 pin, power out): Battery pos (+) to motor, thermo, back to Pink (#7)
WTF does that even mean? I don't need a key or on/off switch, just want it to run when I plug in the batteries. Just needed some reassurance!

Keep us updated on the 7.5kw motor and curious as to what frame you are getting.

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skeetab5780
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Re: Apollo 250 BHT Dirt Bike Conversion

Post by skeetab5780 » Aug 01, 2017 3:00 pm

ya I just double checked manual its wire #7 pink to positive to power controller

Good luck man! My d7500w is still saying its in China so its on the slow boat apparently.

I cannot wait! I will be buying another Kelly controller soon also and will be adding a third direct drive mid motor bike to my collection!

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Re: Apollo 250 BHT Dirt Bike Conversion

Post by jonnydrive » Aug 04, 2017 9:44 am

Nice works skeetab5780!
I am looking forward for your test results with the d7500 motor. My build is quite similar to yours (https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=86532) and I am experimenting overheating problem too.
As same as you, I am searching for an engine able to provide enough torque in a direct drive to make my motorbike fun.

May I suggest to evaluate to add a BMS, I found a cheap and quite good ones to this ebay seller: http://stores.ebay.it/SuPower-Battery?_ ... 7675.l2563
Now I am using a couple of battery pack with two 150A BMS @16s connected in parallel. So I can provide 300amp to the engine without too much stress of the batteries. The pro is a bulk charge and cut-off when any of my cells went over or down charged.

If you want replace a thumb throttle to improve the motorcycle drive experience, you can re-use the original throttle connected with this hall sensor: "http://e-bike-diffusion.com/index.php?m ... _num%253D1"
With the right controller settings you can easly simulate the original gas engine throttle feeds.

Searching on the web I found an engine quite similar to the d7500 sold by Cyclone (it is more expensive but it seem quite the same!)
http://www.cyclone-tw.com/motor.html

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skeetab5780
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Re: Apollo 250 BHT Dirt Bike Conversion

Post by skeetab5780 » Aug 04, 2017 10:15 am

Thanks for post and nice build!

I cannot wait for this motor to arrive it is taking forever on the slow boat!

I will not be using a BMS probably ever. I am my own BMS and do not like the complexity a BMS adds to my KISS(keep it simple stupid) builds~!

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skeetab5780
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Re: Apollo 250 BHT Dirt Bike Conversion

Post by skeetab5780 » Aug 08, 2017 7:16 am

26 DAYS since I ordered the d7500w motor! Tracking still says its in China but who knows!

Im getting anxious!

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Re: Apollo 250 BHT Dirt Bike Conversion

Post by dirkdiggler » Aug 09, 2017 4:00 pm

Saw you bought wheels from Eastgem also. Are you doubling down on them? I've sent a few emails about the mx wheels and get hit or miss responses from Alex. I'm sure he hates me pestering him about things. I couldn't tell from the item page what was included in the $250. Wheels and tires, or wheels, tires and hubs. Eastgem also has some cool moto pegs that I wanted that screw into the bottom bracket, but couldn't get any info from him. On my EEB frame, I ended up buying some cheap pedals from Wally's that screw into an ISIS bottom bracket. It works for now..

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skeetab5780
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Re: Apollo 250 BHT Dirt Bike Conversion

Post by skeetab5780 » Aug 09, 2017 8:08 pm

Ya i bought wheels from him and a kelly controller since its cheaper than on the kelly site lol. Alex took payment from me but still has not gotten back to me on how much the shipping is going to be. They seem to have a very hard time estimating US shipping.

Lets hope he gets back to me soon he thinks it may cost around $90 to ship wheelset to me with tires and tubes

FYI both the wheels and the controller are for my new upcoming build i have not revealed yet! Im very excited tho!

edit: where are the moto pegs on the site?

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Re: Apollo 250 BHT Dirt Bike Conversion

Post by skeetab5780 » Sep 15, 2017 11:29 am

Still no update on the motor, it may be lost in the mail I just spoke with Alex a few days ago and he is going to check in on it...

Hopefully they can find it!

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Re: Apollo 250 BHT Dirt Bike Conversion

Post by dirkdiggler » Sep 15, 2017 3:27 pm

Sucks about the motor. I'm excited to see what you do with this build. I'm taking the easy road and trying to buy the Sur-ron firefly bike. Getting too old for this stuff.
Didn't see your post about the pegs. Here's the link:
https://vimeo.com/199420177
Here's a pic of one of those bikes with the pegs. I think they are a nice way to put pegs using a bottom bracket. Alex never got back to me if they sell them or not. He does make a bunch of great products for ebikes.
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skeetab5780
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Re: Apollo 250 BHT Dirt Bike Conversion

Post by skeetab5780 » Sep 15, 2017 4:39 pm

That thing looks pretty nice tho! I like it do you have a thread? I went super cheap on this build since im dumping tons into my Kuberg build and thats all i got :)

That peg solution is really neat but i have a feeling they are slightly too high for my tall lanky legs. Im running into this exact issue on the Kuberg. I will have to make my own custom drop bar for pedals similar to LMX or just buy one from him.

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Re: Apollo 250 BHT Dirt Bike Conversion

Post by dirkdiggler » Sep 15, 2017 9:15 pm

Here's the bike I'm trying to buy:
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Es thread here:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... it=sur+ron

The pegs are going to be too high placing them in the bottom bracket, but a quick and easy solution. No welding required.

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skeetab5780
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Re: Apollo 250 BHT Dirt Bike Conversion

Post by skeetab5780 » Sep 16, 2017 6:19 am

That thing is really cool! Even if it Chinese crud and all the parts suck! Especially the motor, at least they run a 2 stage reduction which will help a lot!

3k is not a bad price either. Did you pay already? whats the lead time@!

Thanks for the link

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skeetab5780
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Re: Apollo 250 BHT Dirt Bike Conversion

Post by skeetab5780 » Sep 17, 2017 4:20 pm

Looks like Alex is going to send me another motor since the first is MIA. Lets hope this one comes in faster! Or at all :/

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nutnspecial
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Re: Apollo 250 BHT Dirt Bike Conversion

Post by nutnspecial » Sep 19, 2017 4:58 am

Wow I hope it comes before long!

Maybe ask him about UPS or DHL (air). When I got quoted it was very similar to sea shipping when taxes and duties are added, plus at least 4x faster. The air mail has their own (likely more evolved) customs/duty processes.

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Re: Apollo 250 BHT Dirt Bike Conversion

Post by skeetab5780 » Sep 19, 2017 11:25 am

At this point the money was spent so long ago id rather not spend any more...This bike has been sitting around so long I almost forgot about it!

Alex did ask me if I wanted a refund but I said id still rather wait for a second motor since I have yet to see one used in a ES build to my knowledge.

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Re: Apollo 250 BHT Dirt Bike Conversion

Post by nutnspecial » Sep 19, 2017 5:36 pm

Yes, you'll be the first and I dam well plan to be the second. They're still apparently just a little bit of a pain to deal with though. But it's gotta be 30% more capable than the little bht's, which already kinda blow 3x in similar dd hub weight away in power (and weight :!: )

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Re: Apollo 250 BHT Dirt Bike Conversion

Post by madin88 » Sep 20, 2017 11:27 am

nutspecial wrote:But it's gotta be 30% more capable than the little bht's, which already kinda blow 3x in similar dd hub weight away in power (and weight :!: )
Yeah, at high load, when climbing hills or during acceleration absolutely^^ Hub motors have quite poor torque efficiency...

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Re: Apollo 250 Dirt Bike Conversion

Post by skeetab5780 » Sep 25, 2017 11:06 am

OMFG BOYS! IT DOES EXIST (THEY DO EXIST)

The D7500w Eastgem motor came in and just looking at it is giving me a E-grin!!! Thanks Alex im sure ill get another one soon just incase! this replacement for my lost first one one took 10 days
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Shaft looks right
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Crammed in the box!
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Pics galore
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This thing is a freaking beast, it wouldn't even fit in the Kuberg if I wanted to try
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I'm really happy that this motor has a huge shaft that accepts regular dirt bike sprockets. It doesn't get any easier now
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Now I just have to set aside the Freerider and start this project up again, but who knows when that will be!

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Re: Apollo 250 Dirt Bike Conversion

Post by fechter » Sep 25, 2017 12:45 pm

Nice looking motor. What's the power rating?
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

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skeetab5780
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Re: Apollo 250 Dirt Bike Conversion

Post by skeetab5780 » Sep 25, 2017 12:55 pm

This is what the website lists, they show a few vids of it running nicely on Kelly controllers

Max speed 4500Rpm

Rated speed 4000Rpm

Rated output 7.5W 72V

Max output 10,000W

Rated Torque 50Nm

Max Torque100Nm

Rated Amp 120A

Standard hall sensors (+5V)

Temperature sensor

Diameter: 145 mm

Length: 127mm + 47mm (axle)

Weight: 7.25 kg

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Re: Apollo 250 Dirt Bike Conversion

Post by maydaverave » Sep 25, 2017 4:02 pm

Nice bike. Instead of using a cheap welder I wonder if you could use the swing arm bolt to mount a motor bracket?
e-bikekit 50v 9.2ah cellman pack

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nutnspecial
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Re: Apollo 250 Dirt Bike Conversion

Post by nutnspecial » Sep 25, 2017 7:56 pm

AWESOME! Please let us know confirmed KV and weight when you get into it.
For now I'm guessing 60kV and 15lbs, and have little doubt of performance 8)

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skeetab5780
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Re: Apollo 250 Dirt Bike Conversion

Post by skeetab5780 » Dec 04, 2017 8:54 am

I cannot believe that these guys copied my idea! Good ole open source gotta love it

I mean come on Chinese dirt bike with Denzel motor...YWVMMF
Image

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Re: Apollo 250 Dirt Bike Conversion

Post by skeetab5780 » Dec 04, 2017 9:15 am

So a little progress on the Apollo dirt bike. While my brother started cutting and hacking all the existing motor mounts off the bike I used a dremmel and carefully cut the splines on the shaft of the motor to allow the sprocket lock to engage properly. Was slightly tedious but we did it.
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Sprocket mounted, this motor shaft is quite long and in a perfect world I would have cut it shorter like I did with the BHT, but this bike has plenty of room under the hood so I let it fly
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We left one stock motor mount on just incase we would need it later, but we ended up having the get rid of it later on down the road
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My Bro cut the main angle iron support brace that will hold that majority of the motor bracket
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And while he was getting that welded into place I just randomly started looking for a piece of scrap metal to make a motor bracket out of, ended up using the biggest piece of plate steel I could find and it was pretty close to perfect for the motors bolt pattern size. I cut a hole in the center for the sprocket that took about two drill batteries to accomplish
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lots of elbow grease and a dull hole saw at the end!
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Lined up the motor and center punched the 4 motor mount holes so they would be dead on, they ended up being a bit off but that's exactly how I roll!
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sanded and rounded
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Pic of my bro setting things on fire
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Top welds done
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Here is where I taught my brother how to do CAD....cardboard aided design
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More weld pics just for fun
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Then we had a slight intermission and had to refuel with some awful pizza and midget bike riding! We broke a pedal but it was good fun
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I flipped the bike up so my bro could get the bottom welds easier, here is a shot while trying to balance the bike at the same time
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Shot all done, I wish
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transferred the CAD work to the metal for grinding
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Not the most effective bracket in the world but I will be bracing this with more angle iron
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about 1" 5/8" thick at the thinnest part
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Got the motor bolted in for a mockup of the chainline
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Tacked it in place and this is where we had to cut the last stock motor mount out of the way
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I came up with a quick angle iron brace to support the bottom half of the bracket to the lower on the frame, this made the bracket extremely rigid from longitudinal movement, the upper will help laterally
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Zoom in shot
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Pulled the motor off after tacking everything into submission to fully weld it all
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Backside shot
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This is why I have my bro weld...its much nicer looking
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Top mount back of plate, hard to see but nice coloring on the welds
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Final shot ready to wire the motor up
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Zoomed in shot of the madness, thanks for watching...hopefully she flies and doesn't blow up!
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fechter
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Re: Apollo 250 Dirt Bike Conversion

Post by fechter » Dec 04, 2017 2:43 pm

Looking good.
Sprocket mounted, this motor shaft is quite long and in a perfect world I would have cut it shorter like I did with the BHT, but this bike has plenty of room under the hood so I let it fly
Depending on the chain forces, the shaft might have a tendency to snap off. Making it shorter will reduce the chances of this.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

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