Offensive Post? Flame Post?

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Offensive Post? Flame Post?

Post by knightmb » Mar 14, 2008 9:46 pm

Offensive Post? Someone causing problems? Don't be afraid to use our "Report this post" feature in the forum. We have a fairly open community here, but if someone is pushing the limits don't be afraid to report it to us. Not everything reported will be seen by the user here, the user is only informed if we take action against it and still then you are anonymous in your report to us.

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Re: Offensive Post? Flame Post?

Post by safe » May 28, 2008 8:40 pm

Software Modification As Cure

In the "Friends and Foes" area the text reads:

"Foes are users which will be ignored by default. Posts by these users will not be fully visible. Personal messages from foes are still permitted. Please note that you cannot ignore moderators or administrators."

...the line "Posts by these users will not be fully visible." means that you no longer see what your foe is doing on your threads, but you can't force them to go away. (which means foes can still clog up threads with inappropriate postings)

What I'm proposing as a possible solution is to simply modify the software so that when a thread was created by someone and a person listed by that person as a foe sees the thread that the foe is not allowed to post. They can see the thread, but it is "read only" for the foe.

:arrow: So:

Creator of the Thread + Foe Listing = Blocked Foe for that thread.

It seems to me that about 99% of the problems of conflict would be eliminated instantly because someone who is not wanted could be excluded.

This does NOT prevent a foe from posting somewhere else, so it's a natural way to protect the innocent from harassment without depriving the foe (who might not see themselves as a foe) of their rights in the rest of the forum.

I made another thread about this before I realized that it might have been better to post it here. Anyway, if you've seen this idea before now you have it here again. :)


What this also allows is for someone who is blocked to be able to email the thread creator and seek permission to be allowed to reenter. This forces people to "be nice" or not be allowed to play.

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Re: Offensive Post? Flame Post?

Post by EMF » May 28, 2008 9:18 pm

safe wrote:Software Modification As Cure

In the "Friends and Foes" area the text reads:

"Foes are users which will be ignored by default. Posts by these users will not be fully visible. Personal messages from foes are still permitted. Please note that you cannot ignore moderators or administrators."

...the line "Posts by these users will not be fully visible." means that you no longer see what your foe is doing on your threads, but you can't force them to go away. (which means foes can still clog up threads with inappropriate postings)

What I'm proposing as a possible solution is to simply modify the software so that when a thread was created by someone and a person listed by that person as a foe sees the thread that the foe is not allowed to post. They can see the thread, but it is "read only" for the foe.

:arrow: So:

Creator of the Thread + Foe Listing = Blocked Foe for that thread.

It seems to me that about 99% of the problems of conflict would be eliminated instantly because someone who is not wanted could be excluded.

This does NOT prevent a foe from posting somewhere else, so it's a natural way to protect the innocent from harassment without depriving the foe (who might not see themselves as a foe) of their rights in the rest of the forum.

I made another thread about this before I realized that it might have been better to post it here. Anyway, if you've seen this idea before now you have it here again. :)


What this also allows is for someone who is blocked to be able to email the thread creator and seek permission to be allowed to reenter. This forces people to "be nice" or not be allowed to play.
You realise of course, that you are building your own gallows.

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Re: Offensive Post? Flame Post?

Post by Link » May 29, 2008 2:40 am

LOL I didn't even know this "FAQ" section existed. :lol:
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Re: Offensive Post? Flame Post?

Post by safe » May 29, 2008 7:18 am

EMF wrote:You realise of course, that you are building your own gallows.
I know that if I'm not wanted that I don't want free access to a thread that someone else created.

At no time have I ever intentionally harassed a person or a thread. My over excitement has gotten me in trouble, but like I've said elsewhere these things tend to be addicting and once in it's hard to stop. If you are not granted entry into a private club you don't care that you weren't there and find other things to do.

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Re: Offensive Post? Flame Post?

Post by safe » May 29, 2008 7:22 am

"Foes" Applies Everywhere or Per Single Thread?

This is mostly a software issue.

The question revolves around what is easier to do in the software given how it's currently constructed. (I wouldn't want too much work to be done)

:arrow: If this blocking of foes can be done on a "per thread" basis by the creator of the thread that would be the luxury approach to solving the problem.

:arrow: If the blocking of foes is across ALL the threads that a creator of threads makes then that's good too. In most cases if someone wants to block a foe they tend to want them blocked everywhere they own a thread anyway, so this would probably be the easy way to get it done.


Note: At no time should this blocking restrict a foe from posting on threads that are by someone else. We definitely do NOT want to restrict the freedom of someone who should have the ability to post on their own threads or on other threads that do not list them as a foe.

This is a "conflict avoidance" concept not conflict elimination. (a little conflict is okay if people "play nice")

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Re: Offensive Post? Flame Post?

Post by TylerDurden » May 29, 2008 9:08 am

Don't get your hopes too high.

Permissions are not set at the topic-level.

:roll:
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Re: Offensive Post? Flame Post?

Post by OneEye » May 29, 2008 10:05 am

Safe,

Have you checked to see if your desired behavior is an included feature in the PHPBB software? If it's not already an available feature it seems to be something of a moot point--I doubt someone is going to program in the capability.

PHPBB is the software used here, right?

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Re: Offensive Post? Flame Post?

Post by safe » May 29, 2008 10:20 am

Most platforms have their own built in API so that you can do SOME changes to them. That's why I'm being flexible in the request because I've been in KnightMB's position with people telling me what they want in "too much" detail.

:arrow: Whatever he can do (let him use his own wisdom involving how the software works) should be what we ask, not demand what we want.

I think everyone sees the problem and this narrow solution is better than something where you have to make blanket bans on someone.

Most of these incidents are fairly minor, but collectively they can drain the life out of some threads.

The issue is more of a distraction than serious... but this minor upgrade would benefit everyone and really significantly cut down on the conflicts.

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Re: Offensive Post? Flame Post?

Post by EMF » May 29, 2008 10:42 am

OneEye wrote:Safe,

Have you checked to see if your desired behavior is an included feature in the PHPBB software? If it's not already an available feature it seems to be something of a moot point--I doubt someone is going to program in the capability.

PHPBB is the software used here, right?
Yes this is PHP and I know from working on a PHP board as a volunteer admin, that it is not possible to do the things asked here. Also, PHP programmers are few and far between and deadly expensive. So you can forget it.

But that isn't the point, the point is Safe is bored again so he needs more interaction and he has found a new subforum to pollute. This subject was already discussed adnauseum in another thread and died, so he decided to fan the flames a bit more and start anew here. The Admin should have locked this subform topic from the get go, considering the subject. But he did not and Safe has taken advantage of the error to push his thoughts to the top of the list again.

The solution is to pull the plug on this guy so we can all get on with more important matters. "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few". It's as simple as that.

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Re: Offensive Post? Flame Post?

Post by safe » May 29, 2008 11:54 am

Hate to burst your bubble, but KnightMB is looking into this. We don't know if it's possible, but if it is there's a possibility that it will be done.

:idea: Think of it this way, you will be able to stay in your own threads and threads that welcome you.

:arrow: I will be able to stay in my own threads and threads that welcome me.

In the cases where you or I are not welcomed then we can't get into the way.

This prevents harassment and conflict.

The only people that will be hurt is people that are by nature "harassing" personalities... but there are plenty of non-technical places for such things. This upgrade could eliminate all the harassment.

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Re: Offensive Post? Flame Post?

Post by TylerDurden » May 29, 2008 12:09 pm

safe wrote: We don't know if it's possible, but if it is there's a possibility that it will be done.
Did you figure that out all by yourself, or did somebody give you a hint?
:roll:
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Re: Offensive Post? Flame Post?

Post by vanilla ice » May 29, 2008 12:54 pm

Hrmms a technical solution for a social problem. :D The way I try to look at the threads I start- once its posted it belongs to the forum, not me. May or may not lead where I wanted or intended but so what.. threads take on a life of their own.

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Re: Offensive Post? Flame Post?

Post by EMF » May 29, 2008 1:57 pm

vanilla ice wrote:Hrmms a technical solution for a social problem. :D The way I try to look at the threads I start- once its posted it belongs to the forum, not me. May or may not lead where I wanted or intended but so what.. threads take on a life of their own.
The problem now is, the inmate is attempting to run the asylum. I think we all know how that will end up.

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Re: Offensive Post? Flame Post?

Post by knightmb » May 29, 2008 9:30 pm

I am discussing some ideas with the other staff here, but as a rule, we won't be trying to implement a technical solution to a social problem (as I think was already stated here before). Mainly, the goal being to keep the human element moved involved so that things are less mechanical here, in regards to issues/problems for example. We also have a large number of "complaints" to sort through as well in our queue, so just bare with us since we all volunteer our time and not exactly full time forum employees. :mrgreen:

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Re: Offensive Post? Flame Post?

Post by safe » Jun 03, 2008 9:53 am

I'm finding that there are certain people that are just in the business of bullying others off the forum by frequent and repeated trash postings. Their logic is that by sheer volume of trash postings they will make people get discouraged and go away. That's just plain wrong.

:arrow: The only realistic (low admin intervention) solution that I can see is filtering of the "foes" out of the threads of people being harassed.

It shouldn't be too hard, but as things are going the forum is really taking a nose dive...

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Re: Offensive Post? Flame Post?

Post by paultrafalgar » Jun 03, 2008 10:49 am

Remember, those who ARE superior WILL treat others with respect.
That's an observation NOT a dictate.
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Re: Offensive Post? Flame Post?

Post by TylerDurden » Jun 03, 2008 11:10 am

paultrafalgar wrote:Remember, those who ARE superior WILL treat others with respect.
Respect is a sentiment bestowed on the deserving, at the discretion of the giver. Some giver's criteria for provision differ from others'.

Superiority is a subjective quality, likewise attributed.

:mrgreen:
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Re: Offensive Post? Flame Post?

Post by CGameProgrammer » Jun 03, 2008 2:43 pm

PHP programmers are "deadly expensive"? Hard to believe; PHP is a very simple language, and all web scripts are ultimately just string formatters, since what you're doing is nothing more than coughing up the HTML to render.

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Re: Offensive Post? Flame Post?

Post by EMF » Jun 03, 2008 3:05 pm

CGameProgrammer wrote:PHP programmers are "deadly expensive"? Hard to believe; PHP is a very simple language, and all web scripts are ultimately just string formatters, since what you're doing is nothing more than coughing up the HTML to render.
Well, they are and it isn't simple either. I used to feel the same as you, then I had to get off my ass one day and try to get something fixed, and I found out differently. If you think it is easy for you, this would be a good way for you to make some money. I can tell you that for sure! :)

I worked on a very popular tech site as a volunteer with ~400,000 members. We had some glitches here and there with our code. For example, one was for a situation where the script ate numbers up if you used a dollar sign when writing news articles. When you got to looking on PHP boards, other people were having issues and they were looking too. We spent years trying to overcome this annoyance, until one day one of our admins, who is pretty handy, discovered the solution on a message board somewhere and installed the new code that someone wrote that was good enough to share. At least we didn't have to write it, none of us could.

The owners searched for a long time too, at the same time, to find a GOOD PHP programmer. They said when they would find someone, they were deadly expensive (this is where I got that comment) and they could not afford them. And these guys were straight shooters, they didn't ever lie to me. After all, they wanted this stuff fixed as it pissed them off too!

They finally hired an outfit that did the webpage for a major imported beer. (who I can't mention the name of but you know the brand - I would say this beer is in the top ten of all imported beers) The owners hired them to do a re-vamp of the entire website, they said "no problemo". They were expensive, but the owners said to hell with it, they wanted a new site. Then the programming team got their asses kicked as they discovered they could not handle the complexity of the project and were subjected to fines of 350 dollars a day as they went past the deadline. So, you can see if they agreed to such a contract, they were getting well paid up front and they thought they were good - they were confident. In the meantime, other customers projects got behind and everything got ugly.

Finally, they were let off the hook, since they agreed to let the owners keep what was done at a reduced cost (free) . With the pages incomplete, an in-house programmer was hired full time to complete the job and is still there to this day.

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Re: Offensive Post? Flame Post?

Post by safe » Jun 03, 2008 3:43 pm

When I suggested a software change I was fully aware that it might be impossible.

It can't hurt to ask... :|

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Re: Offensive Post? Flame Post?

Post by CGameProgrammer » Jun 03, 2008 6:01 pm

Hah, dollar signs being interpreted as variables. I don't even know how you can do that in a non-constant string unless you for some reason put an exec() function around it (or whatever the function is called; I can't remember). I've written a couple of websites for fun in PHP:

http://devimg.net
http://pixplot.com

But it's probably different if you have to work with other people. C is a simple language but damn have I seen ridiculously imcomprehensible and labyrinthine C code written by others.

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Re: Offensive Post? Flame Post?

Post by EMF » Jun 03, 2008 7:04 pm

Well it drove us nuts! LOL I think we had to put a space betweeen the dollar sign and the amount for freakin years! :) When the corrective code was added, we all thought it was the greatest thing since sliced bread.

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Re: Offensive Post? Flame Post?

Post by Lock » Jun 03, 2008 7:25 pm

vanilla ice wrote:Hrmms a technical solution for a social problem. :D The way I try to look at the threads I start- once its posted it belongs to the forum, not me. May or may not lead where I wanted or intended but so what.. threads take on a life of their own.
Sorry safe, but... "what he said"... ya gotta roll w/the punches. All others will act or ignore thread abuse from one/two ppl.
Make like a duck (water off feathers) and push on
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Re: Offensive Post? Flame Post?

Post by safe » Jun 03, 2008 8:05 pm

The Terrorism Analogy

One can make the analogy that the intentional "trash posters" whose goal is to destroy a thread are functionally operating along the same principles as a terrorist. Their goal is simply to defeat the spirit of those trying to create life. (or in our case inspire ideas) If you took an overly authoritarian reaction to the web terrorist problem and started making blanket rules to restrict everyone then everyone will be made to feel worse. The trick is having people "on the ground" so to speak who are able to isolate the terrorist and have some limited tool to defeat his terror tactics. The people who are closest to the problem are the people who are themselves intimate with their own thread creation, so they are best suited to deal with the situation.

The goal of the software upgrade was to give that "surgical tool" to identify the web terrorist and be able to eliminate them as a threat.

...as it is now the web terrorist is unrestrained and can essentially bomb/trash anything he wants with absolute glee. :shock:

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