Do people even try reading or searching anymore?

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Re: Do people even try reading or searching anymore?

Post by 999zip999 » Oct 02, 2012 7:28 pm

I do a lot of searches and find it hard to find topic's that relate. Common sense ? My PHD lawyer brother brought a used water heater and payed 350.00 to have to installed. It leaks and he needs to sale this empty house.
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Re: Do people even try reading or searching anymore?

Post by amberwolf » Oct 02, 2012 7:37 pm

There is something "broken" in PHPBB search, where even though it's set to index 3 character stuff, it doesn't. So four letters and up should work, but sometimes it doesn't find certain instances of even those, for reasons I don't understand.

EDIT: apparently even four doesn't work right now. :roll:

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Re: Do people even try reading or searching anymore?

Post by Punx0r » Oct 03, 2012 3:35 pm

We have this issue on another forum. I can't recall if it's a restriction in the phpbb software, or the settings on the host server, but the upshot is a minimum search string of four characters.

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Re: Do people even try reading or searching anymore?

Post by arkmundi » Oct 03, 2012 5:05 pm

HAROX wrote: :arrow: :?: :oops: :arrow: :roll:
:arrow: :twisted: :lol:

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Re: Do people even try reading or searching anymore?

Post by Spacey » Oct 03, 2012 5:49 pm

Paragraphs Icecube for the love of ebikes ....paragraphs :wink:

Those of us with Dyslexia/dyspraxia have real issues trying to read without them. Don't take offence though...:) And yes people should use the search function.
icecube57 wrote:Again I'm seeing a surge of simple questions being asked on the whole forum in General. Some of them are common sense question. Some are questions that really deserve no response...But we feed the newbs. This forum is repository of info. At my job we were only led so far until our floor support said find it in the knowledge database. I had to make it work lose my job trying.Very basic electronics and common sense goes a long way... Reading simple cues like...Input on the charger... +.....- should tell you where to plug in a PSU. I still find myself going to my manual to figure out how to use my charger. If you are asking questions and are into e bikes in any way period and don't own even the cheapest volt meter you should reconsider where you are at in your e bike walk of life. That should have been tool #1 in you. There are so many people deserving of the Darwin Award its unreal. I'm for the e bike movement but people are pour their hearts out every day asking the same things over and over again. This maybe a pet peeve of me personally but day in and day out I have to play/dumb things down for people on my jobs as a CSR for Comcast. It never ceases to amaze me the lack of basic comprehension some people exhibit. My personality makes me gifted in certain areas but when it comes to passing this information on to others its very difficult. We have gurus on the forum that can speak jargon beyond my understanding. If i want to know what it means i educate myself. Very rare that I ask for something to be spoon fed to me. I still look up old info that is 3-4 years old. Wiring combos and phase combinations. I can read and figure out how to test my own mosfets or know the symptoms of a blown hall or shorted phase. I can find posts on how to check halls and perform input resistor mods. The info is here but people are just lazy. I totally understand second opinions and getting constructive input on your build. That's not what im talking about. Its the blandest most generic questions. My motor doesn't turn. Obviously there was no real minimum troubleshooting effort done.Person probably doesnt own a volt meter. People like this end up being part swappers and keep swapping stuff until something changes indirectly. Then they ask another question and start another thread to continue on with the problem sometimes you have to grasp the overall picture and how things interact on you bike. The easiest well thought out designs in ebike connectivity are great but sometimes basic TS and common sense goes a long way in narrowing the scope of your problem I often find myself copy and pasting previously scripted info just to avoid explaining myself to people again. I know Amberwolf takes the time and uses search and cross post information. Dog man day in and day out explains the facts of ebike life to the virgins out here. We have a wiki would go a long way in explaining some of the basics. I know the search on this forum really does suck but Google does wonders searching through the forum and the net in general. I just find it hard to believe that with the information that's on the forum now that people cant TS, make informed decisions , form their own opinions by reading other users experiences, etc etc. This maybe just venting but I need people to READ PLEASE. Diversify the knowledge in your mind instead of diluting it with the narrow-mindedness of your questions.
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Re: Do people even try reading or searching anymore?

Post by Tommy L » Oct 03, 2012 6:37 pm

leffex wrote:One said google search works better. Sure ill start using it to this site since i sometime not get the information I need.
I use google search most of the time as well as forum search. Sometimes neither yields what you need :(


"Known to Work Brushless Motor/Controller Wiring Diagrams"

Like trying to find this great thread above. :roll:
Not one mention of the word Phase or Hall wires or combinations.

Not to blame anyone on how Subjects should or might be wrote, but dang! This great thread was a tough one to find! lol :)

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Re: Do people even try reading or searching anymore?

Post by amberwolf » Oct 03, 2012 11:13 pm

One thing that could be done for that sort of issue is for a moderator or the original poster of such a thread to edit it with "invisible keywords" in the first post, using the smallest print possible since you don't need to read them just for the PHPBB search to find them in the first post.

(since typically too many threads come up if you use the "Post subjects and message text" or "Message text only" options, and not enough stuff comes up with "Topic titles only", so often "First post of topics only" works best to find certain kinds of terms.)

I just did this to that thread.

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Re: Do people even try reading or searching anymore?

Post by neptronix » Oct 04, 2012 12:41 am

Actually i have been on this board a while and even i have an extremely hard time finding things from time to time.

I did recently ask one question ( after searching a few times ) and i think amberwolf basically found all the same threads i did but none of them had what i needed.

We have some informational threads here but they are often long and rambling, incomplete, or outdated.
We have a wiki, but it is far from complete, does not have any images or formatting to make it a nice read. Also, being written by multiple people often makes a wiki's text very disjointed. That happens with many things that are written by many authors simultaneously & don't work together closely.

There are plugins to phpbb to add a google search box but nobody has implemented that. If you are new, you have to find out that you need to search via google and not the awful default phpbb search.

Too many cooks in the kitchen here on this forum. The search and information organization has been broken for many years. It's sort of like our government, half people want wiki, half people want good stickied threads, but we end up with a compromise that doesn't work for anyone.

Hey, all i know is that i go on other boards and they always have good information stickied. I rarely have to ask questions or even sign up. Now when i came here, it took me about 3 months of asking questions and reading every day to get the info i needed. That sucked.

I think we have a bit too much democracy and free association here. This forum needs someone to take the reigns and make decisions and get shit done.

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Re: Do people even try reading or searching anymore?

Post by Samd » Oct 04, 2012 12:47 am

ES is a database. There's several ways to structure a database.
It's format is arranged first by main topic heading, then time, then detail topic.

It's the perfect format for discussing one topic at one point in time.

But it's not the ideal database structure for an all encompassing knowledgebase on ebikes. Imagine if wikipedia was structured the same.

I'm not saying we should change btw, just that for anyone taking an undergrad IT database design course, they would read this topic's title and go "well, duh". It's not set up to do so.

I love trolling around thru the history of the thing when I have five mins, and look at the countless hours of research logged within. I've only been at it 2 years, you guys did some hard yards with amazing results.
Like trolling thru an old bookstore. But for the noobs, I'm sure they'd love a structured version by drilldown topic. Or an editable version by main topic, like wikipedia.
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Re: Do people even try reading or searching anymore?

Post by amberwolf » Oct 04, 2012 1:34 am

neptronix wrote:I think we have a bit too much democracy and free association here. This forum needs someone to take the reigns and make decisions and get shit done.
I keep trying to do what I can...but I don't have the power to actually make the changes (and I'm not sure they're the right ones, even jsut for spam control which is all I'm really good at forum-maintenance-wise); the best i can do at the moment is to sticky specific threads, add keywords to posts/threads, edit titles of threads if they are misspelled to help searches, and promote getting people to add to the wiki, as well as adding stuff myself. (and trying to get better instructions on how to add to the wiki written up; I did some but I'm not sure how useful they are; they're in the wiki help).

I'd guess that most days I spend a couple of hours minimum on ES, while I am laying down or resting anyway (sometimes several hours if I can't stay asleep, which isn't uncommon) not counting spam control, which might be another 10 minutes to well over an hour depending on how bad the day's crop of "new members" is). Some of that time is spent fixing stuff, some of it reading or replying to threads, or posting new stuff.

So if poeple have lists of threads that are specifically good stickiable threads full of easily usable info, I can sticky those. If they just have a little info in them here and there, even really good info, then it is better if people collect that info and post it (even just as it is with a link to it's thread source) as a wiki article. It'd also be a good idea to post to that thread the link to the wiki article.

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Re: Do people even try reading or searching anymore?

Post by neptronix » Oct 04, 2012 1:58 am

You've always pulled the majority of the weight here amberwolf. I remember you even helping me out as a total dumb newbie.
If there were only two of you :)

I wish you had more control here. I think the thing is that the upper management has always been 95% absent.
I write PHP and design databases for a living. I have even started a forum in the past. I just got done writing a search engine for a mid size company. A lot of what i focus on in my web development job is information organization and presentation.

So yeah, i have always loved the community at ES but the user experience part has always made my blood boil :lol:

What can i do - other than tell you to keep up the good work AW :mrgreen:
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Re: Do people even try reading or searching anymore?

Post by amberwolf » Oct 04, 2012 2:55 am

neptronix wrote:You've always pulled the majority of the weight here amberwolf.
I doubt that. There's lots of others doing it, too. Just to name two off the top of my head, Dogman answers so many questions I wonder how he finds the time, and Miles so often has instant answers and references and links that some of us have had the thought he might actually be an AI search engine. ;) Jeremy Harris and Bigmoose do some serious technical support, you and Dnmun and a host of others keep helping with the troubleshooting threads, etc.

I just want to make it take less time for all of the helpers to do their help, so they have mroe time for other things (themselves, helping more poeple, etc), or even jsut to reduce burnout.

I remember you even helping me out as a total dumb newbie.
If there were only two of you :)
THAT would be scary, you know. :lol: But I often wish I had two or three times the amount of time that I do, especially the last two or three years, which have left me more and more tired and less able to get up and do things, instead of just talking about them, which is often all I manage to do some days after work.

I wish you had more control here. I think the thing is that the upper management has always been 95% absent.
I don't think me having more control would be a good idea...even if I did I trust myself little enough that I would have to make polls and whatnot on just about everything regarding changes...and nothing would get done then, either, probably.

Anyhow, AFAICT "upper management" is pretty much mostly absent from most places I have been to, either physical or virtual; some of them do fine and some don't. I think the key is not having upper management be around, but rather having the tech support or tech admin around--and *that* we definitely don't have. MRVass is, AFAIK, the main person that we need around to implement and fix/change things, but unfortunately he seems to have extremely limited availability for whatever reason.

Various people have already found solutions to assorted issues, but none of them can be implemented without access to the server and/or backend of the administration stuff. Until he is available to do that, we're stuck with what we have.


So, for now, the best we can do is what I mentioned above--keyword/sticky the various threads/posts that have the info so it can be found in searches, and/or copy it to the wiki (especially the latter!).





I write PHP and design databases for a living. I have even started a forum in the past. I just got done writing a search engine for a mid size company. A lot of what i focus on in my web development job is information organization and presentation.
Well, if you've got any code that would help fix the search engine and/or indexer in PHPBB, or a replacement, then if we can ever get someone with access to the backend to install it, that would be really helpful. :)

I know others like Kingfish have also volunteered to write fixes, such as a translation bit to autofix the conversion failures in various posts from when the board was moved from place to place, where PHPBB has mistranslated characters repeatedly into things like A*a~*#%@(*AA or whatever (you know what I mean ;)). But we still have to have someone with access to actually install/run these things, and to backup the databases first in case soemthing goes wrong.

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Re: Do people even try reading or searching anymore?

Post by knighty » Oct 04, 2012 5:45 am

I searched as much as I could... but still ended up having to ask stupid questions....

what I really think the forum needs are some how-to threads, nice clean and simple with step by step explanations of everything there is to know about ebikes :-)

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Re: Do people even try reading or searching anymore?

Post by dogman dan » Oct 04, 2012 6:26 am

I try to maintain a favorites list of threads I want to refer people to. But then I have a hard drive die on me, and lose em all.

At that point, I can have a hard time finding my own old review threads. Search torque arm for example, and try to dig through the results for my ebikes ca torque arm thread. :lol:

Would be easier to search my own posts if I didn't spew so many. :oops:

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Re: Do people even try reading or searching anymore?

Post by TylerDurden » Oct 04, 2012 7:13 am

Tommy L wrote:I use google search most of the time as well as forum search. Sometimes neither yields what you need :(
"Known to Work Brushless Motor/Controller Wiring Diagrams"

Like trying to find this great thread above. :roll:
Not one mention of the word Phase or Hall wires or combinations.
Operator error?
The above topic has many many many instances of "hall", "phase", "combinations".

Search method:
  • ANY instances of "hall", "phase", "combinations"
    select: first post of topics only
Topic is in the first or second page of results.

The topic is also the first on listed in the top sticky "***Controller Information Links****"
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Re: Do people even try reading or searching anymore?

Post by Arlo1 » Oct 04, 2012 1:18 pm

The search function needs work for eg. Search PWM. Or other short words and acrnyms. We also could use stickies so people can find colon info for every section. For example how to place hall sensors if you go to the motor tech section and find a good thread on how to figure out where halls belong it can be made a sticky at the start of the section.
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Re: Do people even try reading or searching anymore?

Post by amberwolf » Oct 04, 2012 3:11 pm

TylerDurden wrote:Search method:
  • ANY instances of "hall", "phase", "combinations"
    select: first post of topics only
Topic is in the first or second page of results.
Note that I added those and others as keywords to the first post last night, in size 1 print.

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Re: Do people even try reading or searching anymore?

Post by aitutaki1 » Oct 04, 2012 7:05 pm

Hi.
First post to endless-sphere.
Huge thanks to everyone on the forum.
When I discovered forum ~six months ago, as a complete newbie, was a 'kid at Christmas' moment.
I had a specific cycling want: help take the sweat out of daily bike commute. I dove into E-S for info.
My first build was based on Adrian's Commuter Booster system, which is brilliant. (Every friend who rides that bike is an instant convert.)
But, reality is, that system is not precisely, exactly right for a couple of the steeeeep hills on my commute, so naturally I'm researching "next build"... an inevitable side effect of E-S.
Anyway -- the intent of this post: regular posters -- please don't get discouraged re all newbies! You are providing amazing info, and we are drinking from fire hose.
So far, a rough breakdown on my e-biking activity over past 6 months:
-- combing through E-S threads, figuring out what I don't know, trying to dope out answers from existing posts, boning up on electrical, mechanical, physics theory: 60%
-- mentally designing the "perfect next bike" based on info gleaned: 20%
-- drooling over member builds: 10%
-- actually building: 5%
-- actually riding: 4%
-- explaining obsession to significant other: 1%

(Next build... very probably GNG-based motive power, with Nexus 8-spd hub... but who can say for certain till it's done?)

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Re: Do people even try reading or searching anymore?

Post by cal3thousand » Oct 04, 2012 7:16 pm

aitutaki1 wrote:Hi.
First post to endless-sphere.
Huge thanks to everyone on the forum.
When I discovered forum ~six months ago, as a complete newbie, was a 'kid at Christmas' moment.
I had a specific cycling want: help take the sweat out of daily bike commute. I dove into E-S for info.
My first build was based on Adrian's Commuter Booster system, which is brilliant. (Every friend who rides that bike is an instant convert.)
But, reality is, that system is not precisely, exactly right for a couple of the steeeeep hills on my commute, so naturally I'm researching "next build"... an inevitable side effect of E-S.
Anyway -- the intent of this post: regular posters -- please don't get discouraged re all newbies! You are providing amazing info, and we are drinking from fire hose.
So far, a rough breakdown on my e-biking activity over past 6 months:
-- combing through E-S threads, figuring out what I don't know, trying to dope out answers from existing posts, boning up on electrical, mechanical, physics theory: 60%
-- mentally designing the "perfect next bike" based on info gleaned: 20%
-- drooling over member builds: 10%
-- actually building: 5%
-- actually riding: 4%
-- explaining obsession to significant other: 1%

(Next build... very probably GNG-based motive power, with Nexus 8-spd hub... but who can say for certain till it's done?)
Excellent first post!
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Re: Do people even try reading or searching anymore?

Post by melodious » Oct 04, 2012 7:30 pm

My problem is the reverse of this thread. I probably read too much of the threads related to my future ideas & builds, and, unfortunately, not enough action to put them to effect. :oops:
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Re: Do people even try reading or searching anymore?

Post by Sancho's Horse » Oct 04, 2012 9:19 pm

There is some serious gold buried. How to get at it...currently patience and hit and miss searching.

Structural changes way too unwieldy, but I like what dogman said about favorite threads.

What if gurus could maintain a favorite thread inventory?

You guys know where the gold is both in terms of technical reliability, and chronological location. You say bearings, ah, AW came across this, this and this. Often there are gems buried in places you wouldn't expect, and may not relate to the thread title, but you guys could bring them together without rewriting the wheel. Or is this a wiki? If you don't know something, it is sometimes hard to know that you don't know it.

Thanks though.

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Re: Do people even try reading or searching anymore?

Post by Kingfish » Oct 06, 2012 12:47 pm

Sancho's Horse wrote:What if gurus could maintain a favorite thread inventory?
:idea: New subforum: The Best of ES! :wink:

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Re: Do people even try reading or searching anymore?

Post by icecube57 » Oct 14, 2012 12:46 pm

AW best quote for newbs..." What did the manual say?"

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Re: Do people even try reading or searching anymore?

Post by 999zip999 » Oct 14, 2012 1:02 pm

Still waiting for my manuals they must be in the mail.

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Re: Do people even try reading or searching anymore?

Post by Dauntless » Oct 14, 2012 9:44 pm

melodious wrote:My problem is the reverse of this thread. I probably read too much of the threads related to my future ideas & builds, and, unfortunately, not enough action to put them to effect. :oops:
I could add:

1) maybe I should do that instead. (Stop and rethink.)

2) Maybe I should get a few of those while I can. (Parts inventory I'm not ready for sits and waits while I save money for what I should have bought at the moment.)

3) Maybe I should tinker with that now while i'm . . . . (Need I explain or even finish?)

4) (Or this one?) Gee, it looked so EASY when he did it, I guess I'm not as good as I though I was at (Insert microsoldering, metal fab, etc. As needed.). . . .
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