Power Connectors and Tools

I am in heaven. Yes – I am surrounded by budding boxes of little LiPos as I nest upon my next battery array… ahhh! The calm before the storm.

I enjoy the opportunity to mix and match units depending on my need. However I am a bit frustrated with the Anderson Power Poles: Crimp or solder? I have done both (A, B, A+B) using typical wire pliers. Although if the assembly is not absolutely perfect it is inevitable that I shall get partway down the path before the connection comes apart.

Anderson Crimping Tool for PP 75 Amp & SB 50 Amp Connectors:
I spotted this tool and I am sure it would fit the need, yet my thrift inhibits me from forking over $220 for a toothy set of pliers; to me it’s right up there with the $500 toilet seat if you catch my drift. The cool thing about the tool is that I can get away from soldering because I find that the time invested applying heat to copper in large gauges (read: heat sink) to melt solder is akin to mastering the art of Zen ~ O(h)m

MFJ 7602 Anderson PowerPole Connector Crimping Tool:
I have no experience with this vastly cheaper tool (< $15 on eBay). At first blush it looks like it can handle a typical crimp job of 12- and higher gauges. But what I really want is an 8- and 10-gauge crimp tool that don’t cramp my hand.

Wire Ring Terminal Gold 8 AWG Gauge 3/8" Connectors:
This is definitely a permanent way to retain a connection. Yet I fear becoming besmirched by the evil KF3 (Kentucky Fried Finger Fairy) during make/break of assembly without the defense of a convenient dielectric. And here we are back to the same crimping problem.

AC Power Plug Connector:
Yes, the old heavy standard lug screw-type fastener could do the trick, and yet <yawn> how very unsophisticated. Perhaps if I had the luxury of space – such as in the trunk of a car… No, this won’t do.

SQT (Stupid Question Time):
And so it comes. My fellow geniuses, watt have you applied to your current-handling cables. I beg thee, watt connections and tools do you use? Have you used any of the above?

“A horse, a horse, my kingdom for a horse!” ...or maybe a Scotsman on a horse.

Are you limited to the larger connections? Really pulling that many amps?

you can go up to 45A with these, that I'm sure you know about:


http://www.powerwerx.com/tools-meters/tricrimp-crimping-powerpole-contacts.html

I use them without solder to great effect. Good strong compact crimp that allows the connector to fit in the housing correctly.

Edit to add link

If you have the time you try to wade through this windy debate:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1135591

I love that $40 TRIcrimp crimper... sometimes I remove the positioning block on it and use it for other barrel type/size connectors with great results!

Thanks Scoot for sharing: The TRIcrimp looks like the tool to have for the < 10-gauge stuff. And the How-To thread-within-a-thread was very interesting reading 8)
http://www.flyrc.com/articles/using_powerpole_2.html

If I stuck with just 10-gauge the TRIcrimp would do me well. To answer TPA:
The reason I want to use 8-gauge is purely from an engineering point of view: Always size-up from the maximum that you think you will ever need. Therefore 10-gauge is the max that I think I will need, however – I also know “me” quite well enough to realize that what I have in place today will not suffice for tomorrow. This is my thinking:

Upsizing gauge has several benefits:

• Reduction of internal resistance/further suppression of waste heat – particularly with short- to long-term high-current in-rush (dead-start and long steep high-climb).
• Reduction of voltage sag due to above wire losses (hence higher current).
• Enhanced mechanical strength.

Continuing...

• My latest FlightMax LiPos from HK arrived with 4mm Bullet connectors with 12-gauge wire.
• I will run no less that 2 battery-arrays of 5s in series, and quite possibly up to 4 (20s) – though my real target is 3 (15s).
• I will have no less than 2 battery-arrays in parallel ever; I will always have at a minimum a 2x3 or 3x2 arrangement. The maximum total array (regardless of 10s/15s/20s) will not exceed 48 batteries; I am targeting one very specific event for my eBike and I need to have a particular range/weight to complete it.
• For the main power wiring harness, 12-gauge just ain’t gonna do it for me – period. I think having 10-gauge collectors might be suitable; if I’m just doing a city-style configuration it would be just fine. However what if I’m on one of my cross-country treks? What if I need to pull a trailer? (OK – I am using LiPos so I could probably fit them all onto the bike frame). In that case I think 10-gauge is structurally too light duty. From a mechanical view, 8-gauge is rugged enough to use as a stout cable bus, whilst my resistances will be negligible over length. I anticipate that I’ll need to beef up the controller(s) to handle the mounting.
• My 9C wheels use 12-gauge into the hubs. That will also get rewired to 10-gauge so as to minimize resistance, and add mechanical strength on my full-suspension bike.

Gents, I’m sold on the TRIcrimp. But what about the 8-gauge (or 8-to-12)?

Actually, I have zero experIence with most every type of connector other than andersons. they are really easy for me to use cuz I'm such novice at this stuff.

I currently use the 75 amp Andersons for my discharge connections (50 - 100 amps)... super beefy and they hold together extremely well. I have been using these Paladin crimpers with swapable jaws... many jaw types available. But honestly I think my future technique will be to solder the wires into the 75 amp pieces... even though i am a solder phobe (not good at it). My reasoning though is that the 75 amp pieces are quite a bit more expensive and i may want to re-use them and soldering them won't destroy them.
View attachment IMG_1043.JPG

Ohh, nice one Scoot! We must be from the same pod 8)

I found this crimp tool which can accept other crimper dies:
http://www.dcpwr.com/shop/index.php...id=129&zenid=b06b5c38544368f8820c4978e6405d54
http://www.dcpwr.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=127

And if you’re really into crimping, there’s this place:
http://crimpsupply.com/tools/crimping-tools?gclid=CKfNmcDm7Z8CFRwUawodehbGfQ&cat=99
They have one tool for crimping 8-to-22 gauges here:
http://crimpsupply.com/tools/crimping-tools/ratchet-crimper-non-insulated-connectors.html

Now if I can just find my stripper; I think my Ex stole it from me... <grrr>

I use 10 gauge ring terminals on my thundersky lifepo4s. No crimping tool, I just used a really big pair of pliers where I could get a lot of leverage and squeezed extremely hard. Only one connection has come off so far and that was because of my wiggling it around too much.

I found a trick though. I have these regular pair of pliers like these



Well, when you open them up very wide, there is a spot that usually made for cutting wire on some pliers but don't use those kinds of pliers...use the ones that don't cut but put the connector in that part and squeeze hard and it will create an indentation that is good enough so it won't come apart. Worked for me. It will bend it in a 90 degree shape. Don't squeeze all the way or you might cut it in half, though.

Thanks to will_newton I found this link: http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=2767

But it seems a bit incomplete without these: HXT 4mm Gold Connector w/ Protector
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=9283

Anyone use these over APP? Just curious since they seem to handle a lot of momentary current and appear well suited to stay connected during all types of dynamic forces. Anyone, anyone…

BTW - I received the WestLake Mountain Radio crimpers earlier today. <sigh> It was a bargain at the time that I ordered, but then I found cheaper ones locally. Gaawd they weigh about as much as my hub! I'm ready for bear!

Is it late, or is is early? I can never tell.
~KF

i use the powerwerx crimper. it's fine for everything. the amperage ratings of the anderson is very conservative and it is not a peak. I have run 100amps through mine- no prob. the 45A connectors are the same as the 35A, they just just hold a larger gauge wire.

your other equipment will fail before the anderson's do.

here's a pic of my old packs http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=10817&p=194768&hilit=airport#p194768

your other equipment will fail before the anderson's do.

Click to expand...

My APPs already have to some degree. They are a big pain in zee rump’ola! The thing that I don’t like about APPs is that the inserted connector can get pushed out from excessive use (or vibration), leading to a hateful dead-in-the-road chill which seems to appear right after starting on the return leg when you’re out 12 miles from home. I do not have the retention clips though and I’d wager this would help them from getting disconnected – even when the connectors are pulling away. To be completely fair, let’s just say that I am not entirely happy about my setup. In a perfect world, I would have these connections set, hidden/protected in an enclosure, and without the need to fuss with them on a daily basis. I do not have an on/off key switch on my current ebike.

The Bullets are what they are; they can’t push-out in the same way that the APPs can. But then I don’t have weeks and months of wisdom gained either, which leads me to think that I read a post where someone had batteries from PRC that had RED marked as NEG (-) and BLK as POS (+), followed by a pic of the resulting connection… quite frightening.

Still, I’m on the fence. In the meantime, more of my orders came in from Amazon. In my thrifty rush to find cheap large gauge wire, I sourced these two items:



On the left, my cheap source for 8 AWG wire. I wanted to use this as my main battery bus for all my lil’ lipos. It’s nice and flexy – very close to noodleness. And it has the added artifact of being two completely separate wires! Yes, I’ve never seen a “pair” of jumper cables that weren’t connected as a cable-pair. I think the clamps on these are about good enough to jumpstart a lawn mower…

Let’s see hmm – I was thinking about mounting this wire to my controller board here… wot do you think? Maybe an 8-gauge PCB post right here, yes?



My second cheap wire source is a 3-paired 10 AWG Welding Extension (RV) cable (in the top picture as the black coil on the right): Yeah – now we’re cooking! I wanted to use this stuff to run 3-phase from my Controller to my rear 9C motor. Look at the size of this fracken cable: It’s bigger ‘round than the aluminum frame!



I can see it now:
“Yes Officer, it’s only a 750 watt system. So, tell me – as long as I’m here… do you need any welding done?”

The journey continues… (read: more wire on the way)

Come on! Show us your connectors! Who’s using a bus-bar?
~KF

Come on! Show us your connectors! Who’s using a bus-bar?
~KF

Click to expand...

I'll accept that challenge

LiPo users would already be aware of GGoodrum's LVC boards, which also make a great way to connect up packs.

While waiting for his next batch to be available, I am going to make use of this copper busbar, which is normally used to connect DIN style circuit breakers in industrial switchboards. It is 16mm2, which is pretty close to 5g cable I think.
View attachment IMG_0655s.jpg

With the Hobbycity 4mm bullets, and another busbar set up as a mirror image with the opposite gender connectors, some heatshrink to protect from shorts, it just may work. Soldering the connectors may be challenging - do I need an oxy torch? (this is just a mock-up)

Kingfish said:

My APPs already have to some degree. They are a big pain in zee rump’ola! The thing that I don’t like about APPs is that the inserted connector can get pushed out from excessive use (or vibration), leading to a hateful dead-in-the-road chill which seems to appear right after starting on the return leg when you’re out 12 miles from home. I do not have the retention clips though and I’d wager this would help them from getting disconnected – even when the connectors are pulling away.

Click to expand...

gotta be careful crimping, even with crimpers or on a difficult insertion, the tab on the end can bend and prevent it from slipping over the little retainer thingy inside the connector tightly. Also, the retention clips will hold the plug together, but will not hold the wiring in.

gotta be careful crimping...

Click to expand...

Gotcha. I did those mods before I bought the crimpers

WN, I got to thinking about your comments with the APPs vs Barrels, and I went ahead and placed an order with PowerWerks for a gob of 45A APPs, Retention Clips, and an Insertion & Removal Tool. The last item I'll probably carry in an onboard bike toolkit... just in case :wink:

I still haven't sorted what I am doing for the bus yet. Though the 8-AWG wire looks pretty fun, I think I'll need to pass; I'm not trying to build a 100V/100A system. Thank gawd it only cost $15. I didn't spend much on the RV cable either; $35 on Amazon; I must have been high on Starbucks when I placed that order... cracked me up when I opened the box <frack ~ look at that!>

New cable should be here soon. 10 AWG, mil-spec. Looking forward to upgrading those current-limiting 14 AWG phase wires.

Cheers, KF

When 10g don't cut it.. i double up the 10g ! :wink: and use 45 amp PP's.

Seriously tho, the max your controller will draw is all you need to build for, excessively thick wire is just gets in the way on an ebike imo.

...double up...

Click to expand...

Yeah, I thought that would be a good plan if it comes to that, which spawns a corollary thought:

• When doubling, tripling, or splicing more than one power feed into a single-point connection, is there a ratio or formulae that one could use to figure out the correct sized connection?
  
  In other words, I have batteries in groups of 2, 3P, or more and I want to join them to a common lead or bus: Each has a 12 AWG attached with connectors are 4mm Bullets.
  
• We can use a bus ala the example in IMG_0653s kindly provided by Grinhill (or variations thereof…)
• We can cut off the connectors and replace with 15/30/45 APP and use something like this or this:
  
  
  
• We can cut off the connectors and replace a simple ring, that way we can gather any multitude of parallel connections and bind them with a bolt.
  
  
• We could make X or Y connections using these…
  
  
  
• Or we could splice one-to-many wires into a single wire (ala Western Union et al)
• Lastly, we could splice one-to-many wires into a single crimp connection as Scoot has displayed in IMG_0507 above. In doing so I repeat my question: Is there a formula for determining how many wires of a particular gauge can fit into a single crimped terminal?
  Example: Two 12-AWG wires fit into a 10 AWG terminal (I don’t know if this is accurate). Or can we use three 12-AWG and use 8-AWG termination instead? How many 10 AWG wires fit into an 8? Why does Swiss Cheese have holes? (I have many questions about the Universe)

And now my coffee cup is empty. <sigh> Time for a new pot of joe…
Curiously, KF