kudos
10 kW
I wonder if you could fit some HK lipo in there ?........ 
Kudos
Kudos
Anyone tried EM3EV new bottle mount batteries?
- Thread starter kudos
- Start date
migueralliart
10 kW
kudos said:I wonder if you could fit some HK lipo in there ?........
Kudos
Dimensions gotta be somewhere online. But if the packs are sitting sideways I bet you have about 2.6-3" width. I'm not sure about the length and height thou.
kudos
10 kW
voicecoils said:
Voicecoils, any chance you could measure the internal space cavity?
Kudos
friendly1uk
1 MW
migueralliart said:If anyone else is interested in the shell only, a seller on aliexpress is selling them ;
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/white-color-packing-18650-cells-new-bottle-battery-case-electric-bike-battery-case-ebike-battery-case/1682864183.html
THey might start surfacing here and there. I wouldn't buy them with the packs in it from aliexpress as I don't trust battery packs from there.
Now one of those filled with 25R cells ...killer commuter pack.
Nice.
The black one is $10 cheaper http://www.aliexpress.com/item/new-bottle-battery-case-electric-bike-battery-case-ebike-battery-case-ebike-battery-carry/1600570969.html
I bet I could kick one of these off the frame in one. It's why I keep thinking along these lines, but custom for my bike, to pick up on the seat post mounting points too.
Looking at the pic, The smart bms would fit. Giving 30A and 5A charge. Just what the high power pack quotes.
Does anyone recognise the cell holders? I know it is 11 cells long at 18mm each, but don't know the spacing.
Scaling from the drawing, it looks like 2cm per cell. Giving 22x8x7cm which is quite small. Not a good form factor for the cells I have been looking at personally.
Off topic a little, but them seat post boxes look like they could work in this location. That is as far as I have got with that idea though. I like the number of sizes available though.
As it fits in a triangle, I expected it might be a bit... triangular.
nukezero
10 kW
Okay, let me stop beating around the bush. Someone just tell me what kind of cylindrical 18650 cells out there right now that I can buy(sourceable) that can give me 1000watt+ on the bafang BB 48v 750w sustainable for 30mph? That is ONLY in the configuration of 13s4p ?
So we scratched off Panasonoic NCR18650-PF
What about Samsung INR18650-25R or the Sony VT5 ?
So we scratched off Panasonoic NCR18650-PF
What about Samsung INR18650-25R or the Sony VT5 ?
friendly1uk
1 MW
This box is not designed for that many cells.
migueralliart
10 kW
It seems that the max amount of cells you can fit in this case is 50 according to the layout I saw. That gives you;
10S5P
12S4P
14S3P
Note that there might be bigger enclosures as it is the case with the frog battery.
For small capacity and high discharge I would go with sony or samsungs.
10S5P
12S4P
14S3P
Note that there might be bigger enclosures as it is the case with the frog battery.
For small capacity and high discharge I would go with sony or samsungs.
nukezero
10 kW
migueralliart said:
Interesting....
I talked to nme-bikes on aliexpress and he assured me it can fit 52 max. The pictures he had showed 50 but there seems to be a couple extra spaces more that can squeeze 2 or 3 more in? The sales on ebay also say that the configuration is 52p. I wonder what Paul has his configured for?
Anyhow, what can I get away with using 14s3p? The LG HE2's ??
teslanv
1 MW
Paul shows a 13S4P option on his page, in addition to a 10S5P set-up. - so it must be possible.
I would have to assume Paul spot welds the packs, so if you are building your own with the bare case, you'll have to plan on having the battery welding equipment or find someone who does.
Seems like it's way easier just to buy from Paul, unless you want a cell that he doesn't offer.
Here is the data sheet on the 29E cells Paul specs.
http://1drv.ms/1gwL4Tl
According to the Manufacturer (Samsung) these cells are rated at 2850 mAh. In a 4P Configuration, you would be discharging them at a 2.2C rate on a 25A Controller like the 750W BBS02. - Their rated continuous discharge is 1C or 11.4 Amps continuous. They also note that a 2C discharge will result in a 95% capacity, and a 3C discharge will result in a 92% capacity, relative to a 1C discharge.
I can tell you that with the PAS set to level 3 of 9 on my BBS02, I am limited to 11 amps and this works well for me, so this battery would suffice, if used in this manner. - If you plan on riding at WOT, full-time, you need LiPo.
I would have to assume Paul spot welds the packs, so if you are building your own with the bare case, you'll have to plan on having the battery welding equipment or find someone who does.
Seems like it's way easier just to buy from Paul, unless you want a cell that he doesn't offer.
Here is the data sheet on the 29E cells Paul specs.
http://1drv.ms/1gwL4Tl
According to the Manufacturer (Samsung) these cells are rated at 2850 mAh. In a 4P Configuration, you would be discharging them at a 2.2C rate on a 25A Controller like the 750W BBS02. - Their rated continuous discharge is 1C or 11.4 Amps continuous. They also note that a 2C discharge will result in a 95% capacity, and a 3C discharge will result in a 92% capacity, relative to a 1C discharge.
I can tell you that with the PAS set to level 3 of 9 on my BBS02, I am limited to 11 amps and this works well for me, so this battery would suffice, if used in this manner. - If you plan on riding at WOT, full-time, you need LiPo.
nukezero
10 kW
teslanv said:
can you briefly explain what/why spot welding is and why it is needed to squeeze more cells? I thought I can just buy metal plates and solder it together within the packs and call it a day no?
teslanv
1 MW
perhaps you could manually solder the cells together with plate or copper wire, although does anyone know what the clearances are for the cells? It may be too tight to have any significant build-up on the cell ends???nukezero said:
nukezero
10 kW
teslanv
1 MW
Looks like there is a bit of clearance at the cell ends. It's hard to tell if it's soldered or spot welded though, with the shield cover in the way. The red wires on the top seem to go to each parallel groug, though. - Maybe not a difficult task to solder manually...
Anyone have a battery they want to tear apart and show us how it's done???
Anyone have a battery they want to tear apart and show us how it's done???
nukezero
10 kW
teslanv said:
what if I order the batteries with tabs already spot welded? Then I just solder the other side to the bare flat top of the battery?
But then I wouldn't know how many batteries need to be tabbed and which aren't.
teslanv
1 MW
That might be a good solution. The key is to figure out how Paul Assembles his, and build yours the same.nukezero said:
nukezero
10 kW
teslanv said:
I sent voicecoil a pm about his pack and seeing if he can open it up and just take a picture.
Now, I need to go place an order for the case.
Funny, i think i'm the first person to put together the electronic components first, before actually having a bike to put onto... i don't even have a bike yet!
nukezero
10 kW
based on the outer dimensions and some pictures above, the width of the pack is 3.12" or 8cm.
However, a 18650 cell is ~ 65mm. So that is 8-6.5 = 1.5cm of clearance. Plus the thickness of the walls, I'd say we got a good 0.5" of space so 0.25" space on both ends of the battery. I think that is ample room for solder and plate, no??
However, a 18650 cell is ~ 65mm. So that is 8-6.5 = 1.5cm of clearance. Plus the thickness of the walls, I'd say we got a good 0.5" of space so 0.25" space on both ends of the battery. I think that is ample room for solder and plate, no??
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teslanv
1 MW
It's tempting to get something like this:
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/180p...sonic-NCR18650PD-18650-2900mAh/759290109.html
PLUS a few of these:
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/pro...se-ebike-battery-carry/637802_1600570969.html
That would net at about $400 per 11.6Ah 13S pack, and be THE best option for a Clean Bottle-Mount style battery...
Except I'd probably spend a day building each one, so once the value of my time is added, maybe more like $600 each.
lectriccycles.com sells a virtually identical set-up for $750. - His uses Panasonic NCR18650PF cells. http://lectriccycles.com/products/48v-downtube-mounted-battery
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/180p...sonic-NCR18650PD-18650-2900mAh/759290109.html
PLUS a few of these:
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/pro...se-ebike-battery-carry/637802_1600570969.html
That would net at about $400 per 11.6Ah 13S pack, and be THE best option for a Clean Bottle-Mount style battery...
Except I'd probably spend a day building each one, so once the value of my time is added, maybe more like $600 each.
lectriccycles.com sells a virtually identical set-up for $750. - His uses Panasonic NCR18650PF cells. http://lectriccycles.com/products/48v-downtube-mounted-battery
nukezero
10 kW
teslanv said:
yes but some of you guys (i think it was neptronix or someone else) said the Panasonic 18650PF cells were horrible under anything greater than 2C load??
tomjasz
1 GW
Shipped on the 14th, this past Monday, from Heiei CN to SE Minnesota, received today 4/17/2013. WOW!
tomjasz
1 GW
I'm confused on mounting the battery. Before I start taking things apart...
Perhaps the rest of the mount is in my second package still in transit. Anyone have a picture of the mounting hardware, PLEASE!
Perhaps the rest of the mount is in my second package still in transit. Anyone have a picture of the mounting hardware, PLEASE!
tomjasz
1 GW
The manufacturer site is http://www.ksreention.com
It lists the capacitites the unit is designed for. But a dead end again on how it mounts.
DC2.1 charging Port (optional 5Pin high current charging Plug)
Four levers LED capacity indicator
Standard USB Port
30Amps high performance blade type discharge fuse
Power switch with LED light
2-5Pins discharging plug
Integrated with F.O.C controller
Waterproof grade: IP65
52PCS 18650 Cylinder cells, capacity 36V10Ah-17Ah or 48V8AH-13.6AH
It lists the capacitites the unit is designed for. But a dead end again on how it mounts.
DC2.1 charging Port (optional 5Pin high current charging Plug)
Four levers LED capacity indicator
Standard USB Port
30Amps high performance blade type discharge fuse
Power switch with LED light
2-5Pins discharging plug
Integrated with F.O.C controller
Waterproof grade: IP65
52PCS 18650 Cylinder cells, capacity 36V10Ah-17Ah or 48V8AH-13.6AH
tomjasz
1 GW
Someone responded with information and linked me to pictures. I somehow, exhausted and brain dead, managed to delete the post without responding and thanking the poster. If it was you please accept my grateful thanks. I now see what need to separate to mount the battery. I just can't seem to get it to work. Grrrrrr. Old stroke brains suck. Thanks all for the patience!
voicecoils
1 MW
I'm back with more photos:
I don't have precise internal dimensions, but my pack has 52 cells and there's space for perhaps 6-10 more 18650 cells if you were silly enough to sacrifice both BMS and the DC-DC converter for USB output. Each cell as the name implies is 18mm in diameter and 65mm in length.
The render posted earlier gives a good indication of space but with the cell-holders it shows there's less packing density. The EM3EV construction has no cell-holders and is more compact as a result.
View attachment 1
View attachment 4
View attachment 3
View attachment 2
I don't have precise internal dimensions, but my pack has 52 cells and there's space for perhaps 6-10 more 18650 cells if you were silly enough to sacrifice both BMS and the DC-DC converter for USB output. Each cell as the name implies is 18mm in diameter and 65mm in length.
The render posted earlier gives a good indication of space but with the cell-holders it shows there's less packing density. The EM3EV construction has no cell-holders and is more compact as a result.
View attachment 1
View attachment 4
View attachment 3
View attachment 2
Attachments
voicecoils
1 MW
dogman said:
It actually hit capacity at over 1C since my first discharge curve was at 10A constant current (so ~1.2C) on the 8.4Ah pack.
I can't easily do a 2C test, but I can do a ~20A test instead. Hopefully sometime next week.
I wouldn't trust the connectors between the pack and it's slide-in holder to handle much more than 20A, particularly continuously but in my view the appeal of the pack as a whole is the nice compact shape, easy to use mounting system, USB accessory charging, lock etc.
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