gwsaltspring
100 W
Actually the more I read about Li batteries the less I'm inclined to got this route at the present time. I don't think I'm careful enough.
which batteries
- Thread starter gwsaltspring
- Start date
maytag
100 W
gwsaltspring said:
Yes it is very scary reading about how dangerous Li batteries can be which is the main reason I decided to go with Emoli lithiums. At the moment their are 3 safe lithium batteries to choose from A123 (found in Dewalt packs), Emoli (found in Milwaukee packs) and LifePo packs (just starting to hit the market). So far I am 100% satisfied with my Emoli setup, I charge my customized pack while the bike hangs in the garage without worries what so ever. Using the matching Milwaukee chargers is a no brainer, just plug and forget it (once forgot about the chargers being on for 2 days, the bms works great). I've found charging my Emoli setup no different than charging SLA batteries with the ever popular Soneil chargers (once forgot about a SLA/Soneil plugged in for over a week, always trusted my Soneils). The only minor quirk I have about the Milwaukee chargers is that if I deeply discharge the Emoli pack, the chargers will go into a standby mode about 80% into the charge. Either the chargers have a built-in safety timer or they are sensing a false peak charge. I would then have to unplug/replug the chargers and they would continue till full charge (normally another 30min or so). I'm guessing its a built-in timer, these chargers were designed to charge a single v28/3Ah pack in an hour. The way I have it all set up is each charger is charging 3 v28 packs in parallel (v28/9Ah). A deeply discharged pack normally will charge to about 80% in ~2.5hrs then another 0.5hrs to 100% after resetting the chargers. See my build thread for details on my custom Emoli pack. http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=541&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=45
Also, there are rumors that A123 is coming out with higher capacity cells for EV purposes but it may take a while before we consumers can have access to them. Hopefully Dewalt comes out with a cordless electric chainsaw or something then we could rip the larger A123 cells out of those packs. :lol:
gwsaltspring
100 W
Thanks for the response Maytag.
I've been looking at buying some new cordless tools lately so, at the very least, I might wind up with a bunch of chargers and some spare battery packs if I go this route.
Just pulled a tool flyer out of recycling and I see that Default (construction slang for DeWalt tools) has a 36V kit now. Milwaukee often gets very good tool reviews from the Fine Woodworking/Homebuilding annual tool guide.
Never thought I would find myself making a tool purchase choice based on whether I could use the batteries on my E-bike. Well stranger things have happened :wink:
Is it possible to leave the batteries in the housing that they come with and mount them on ones bike? That way I could ride my bike to a jobsite plug in the batteries for an hour them use them and do the same at the end of the day to go home. Fun idea eh?
Cheers Greg
I've been looking at buying some new cordless tools lately so, at the very least, I might wind up with a bunch of chargers and some spare battery packs if I go this route.
Just pulled a tool flyer out of recycling and I see that Default (construction slang for DeWalt tools) has a 36V kit now. Milwaukee often gets very good tool reviews from the Fine Woodworking/Homebuilding annual tool guide.
Never thought I would find myself making a tool purchase choice based on whether I could use the batteries on my E-bike. Well stranger things have happened :wink:
Is it possible to leave the batteries in the housing that they come with and mount them on ones bike? That way I could ride my bike to a jobsite plug in the batteries for an hour them use them and do the same at the end of the day to go home. Fun idea eh?
Cheers Greg
jerryt
100 W
Greg wrote
Check out video. I don't know if these are Li
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKKvP9wWrlY
Check out video. I don't know if these are Li
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKKvP9wWrlY
jerryt
100 W
Help me out here
1. How many of these 36V DEfault batteries on a Clyte 408 will get me 2 hours of ride time. I'm a Big guy
2. Is this a smarter, safer, better, cheaper way to get Li power or what
Edit: How does Li compare to NiCAD
3. Is it difficult to wire in-series like the guy in the video (total electrical nerd here)
Edit 2: I guess I shoulda asked (instead) why the guy in the video pulled out a dewalt battery packaged from the factory and said they're wired in series while Maytag has his all disassembled and reworked
Thanx
1. How many of these 36V DEfault batteries on a Clyte 408 will get me 2 hours of ride time. I'm a Big guy
2. Is this a smarter, safer, better, cheaper way to get Li power or what
Edit: How does Li compare to NiCAD
3. Is it difficult to wire in-series like the guy in the video (total electrical nerd here)
Edit 2: I guess I shoulda asked (instead) why the guy in the video pulled out a dewalt battery packaged from the factory and said they're wired in series while Maytag has his all disassembled and reworked
Thanx
xyster
10 MW
Check out Jondoh's Milwaukee-powered ride:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=233&highlight=milwaukee
maytag
100 W
jerryt said:
I guess I can answer a couple of your questions.
#2 - I like both the Milwaukee and Dewalt powertool Li batteries, yes both are safer Li's and cheaper in some ways (I purchased my 6 packs on Ebay@ roughly $95 ea shipped). Li Kicks a$$ on NiCADs in every category except price
#3 - If youre going to keep the batteries in their original powertool cases it would be easier to series connect the Milwaukee packs. Jondoh has successfully kept his V28 packs together in the same series/parallel config as my custom pack. Dewalt packs needs the bms' internally bypassed for series connections. Both Jondoh and I know for a fact that 2 V28s and can be series w/out bms bypassing but 3 in series will go up in smoke.-hehe ** I chose to rip apart my packs and custom build them into my bike frame for handling performance benefits. Try hopping off of a curve or hitting that unexpected pothole with batteries mounted on a rear rack. My bike rides and feels just like a regular mtn bike, seriously 8)
gwsaltspring
100 W
OK so this gets kind of interesting in a hurry.
Can someone point me towards where I can read more about how I can do a plug and play type of system.
I don't think I have the skills to do a major build of the cels but I would like to think I could do up something like the guy in the video or Jon did.
No mention of Ah with these battery packs I have to assume that it isn't very large. Simplest solution?
Greg
Can someone point me towards where I can read more about how I can do a plug and play type of system.
I don't think I have the skills to do a major build of the cels but I would like to think I could do up something like the guy in the video or Jon did.
No mention of Ah with these battery packs I have to assume that it isn't very large. Simplest solution?
Greg
xyster
10 MW
Dewalt packs are 2.2ah, 36 peak volts.
Milwaukee V28 packs are 3.0 ah, 29.4 peak volts.
Uhmmm...if you don't want to break into the packs even for taps, Milwaukee V28s (for the reasons Maytag mentioned) in a 2-series X-parallel configuration using the Milwaukee connector blocks and chargers - like Jondoh's.
gwsaltspring
100 W
Thanks X.
I guess MT and I were typing more or less at the same time and I have been posting on one of the tool groups asking about the DeWalt tools.
I may get up the nerve at some point to go down this path but I think I will stick with the technology that I know for the time being.
I've been researching this stuff all day instead of doing the house plans I had intended. LOL
Good thing I work for myself :wink: this way the boss can't get mad at my lack of productivity.
Greg
I guess MT and I were typing more or less at the same time and I have been posting on one of the tool groups asking about the DeWalt tools.
I may get up the nerve at some point to go down this path but I think I will stick with the technology that I know for the time being.
I've been researching this stuff all day instead of doing the house plans I had intended. LOL
Good thing I work for myself :wink: this way the boss can't get mad at my lack of productivity.
Greg
TylerDurden
100 GW
Hey Greg,
I'm using the Ridgid 24V emoli packs. They contain one cell less than the Milwaukee V28 series.
I currently use them at 24V, but Maytag's and Jondoh's testing have shown the FETs to be stable @ 48V (2S, xP).
more here:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=616
IMO, the price issue is really a Pay-It-Forward proposition... considering cycle-life etc., the emolis seem a better deal over time than other chemistries, with lighter weight and lower sag.
I'm using the Ridgid 24V emoli packs. They contain one cell less than the Milwaukee V28 series.
I currently use them at 24V, but Maytag's and Jondoh's testing have shown the FETs to be stable @ 48V (2S, xP).
more here:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=616
IMO, the price issue is really a Pay-It-Forward proposition... considering cycle-life etc., the emolis seem a better deal over time than other chemistries, with lighter weight and lower sag.
jerryt
100 W
I questioned Biodiversivist (who made the video using DeWalt Batts) and he replied
olharv (4 hours ago)
Thanx 4 the video. I'm interested in the battery hook-up. Do you only have 2 batts hooked up in series to run the motor and are the others only carried as spares?
(Reply)
biodiversivist (36 minutes ago)
Hook two in series for 72 volts and then hook those pairs in parallel. Two, four, or six batteries
I forgot to ask about the controller
olharv (4 hours ago)
Thanx 4 the video. I'm interested in the battery hook-up. Do you only have 2 batts hooked up in series to run the motor and are the others only carried as spares?
(Reply)
biodiversivist (36 minutes ago)
Hook two in series for 72 volts and then hook those pairs in parallel. Two, four, or six batteries
I forgot to ask about the controller
gwsaltspring
100 W
Thanks Tyler
I had the same idea as you with using the tools. I may ask you a few questions if I go down that path a bit further but as you can probably tell I am all over the map with the battery technology.
It seems the Rigid and Milwaukee batteries lend themselves the best to using on a bike and in a tool, but the Dewalt is what is readily available on island.
I will keep puzzling over this.
Cheers Greg
I had the same idea as you with using the tools. I may ask you a few questions if I go down that path a bit further but as you can probably tell I am all over the map with the battery technology.
It seems the Rigid and Milwaukee batteries lend themselves the best to using on a bike and in a tool, but the Dewalt is what is readily available on island.
I will keep puzzling over this.
Cheers Greg
xyster
10 MW
You can use the Dewalt packs if you open the case, tap into the main power leads just below the BMS, and extend those leads out through a small hole in the case. This way, the battery still works with the stock dewalt powertools and chargers, but won't fry the BMS. If you have better access to the Dewalts, I'd go this route, wiring up a 2s Xp 66 volt pack. The Dewalts should last such a long time (sounds like over 10 years probably) that the battery savings could easily justify the extra upfront cost...
Check out Magudaman's scooter:
http://visforvoltage.net/forum-topic/batteries-and-chargers/578-a123-developer-packs
He also posted a nice how-to at the old V forum. You might consider contacting him for more information.
gwsaltspring
100 W
Thanks X
That seems well within my range of skills.
BTW whats up with the Voltage forum? Is it just my small laptop screen or is that the corruption I've heard about. Very difficult to read.
Do you have a contact address for Magudaman?
Greg
That seems well within my range of skills.
BTW whats up with the Voltage forum? Is it just my small laptop screen or is that the corruption I've heard about. Very difficult to read.
Do you have a contact address for Magudaman?
Greg
maytag
100 W
jerryt said:
Curious to know if he bypassed the bms' for the 72v series connections. As Xyster points out, Magudaman needed to bypass to connect 2 of the Dewalt's pack in series. Reports have shown that Dewalt's 36v packs dont like to be 2s connected without bypassing the bms'
xyster
10 MW
The primary "corruption" over at the new V forum (a replacement for the virus-infected old V forum who's captain went AWOL) wasn't of the technical sort, unfortunately. The new V site was working fine for me when I checked just now for Magudaman's address.
As far as I saw, he didn't list an email. You could join visforvoltage.net and then P.M. him from there.
http://visforvoltage.net/user/magudaman
He was always a nice, helpful person.
Instant Karma
1 W
- Joined
- Apr 22, 2007
- Messages
- 64
gwsaltspring said:
I just looked at that place (V) and it makes Yahoo Power Assist seem almost professional in comparison, it's that poorly constructed.
marty
1 MW
Gwsaltspring,
I don't think you should build any electric bike batteries. Don't think you should build anything. Let me explain. Will use some other modes of transportation as examples. Do you walk, run? Do you build your own sneakers? Do you drive a car, truck? Did you build your car? There is nothing that you can build cheaper or better then you can buy. I am very happy with my sneakers and the car that I bought.
Take a look at what http://www.iloveebikes.com is selling. Don't think they building electric bikes? Think they buy them from China? Here is one picture from there web site:
$1074 for Electric Mountain Bike with 36v/10AH Li-ion HI POWER battery.
Just to contradict myself.... Due to this obsession I have developed with Electric Bicycles. I will keep trying to build the lightest and fastest electric bike on this planet.
I don't think you should build any electric bike batteries. Don't think you should build anything. Let me explain. Will use some other modes of transportation as examples. Do you walk, run? Do you build your own sneakers? Do you drive a car, truck? Did you build your car? There is nothing that you can build cheaper or better then you can buy. I am very happy with my sneakers and the car that I bought.
Take a look at what http://www.iloveebikes.com is selling. Don't think they building electric bikes? Think they buy them from China? Here is one picture from there web site:
$1074 for Electric Mountain Bike with 36v/10AH Li-ion HI POWER battery.
Just to contradict myself.... Due to this obsession I have developed with Electric Bicycles. I will keep trying to build the lightest and fastest electric bike on this planet.
xyster
10 MW
Do as I say, not as I do?
How else is a dude on a budget supposed to have a long-haul pack?
"Build it, and you will come!"
