Noob Lipo Dummy (need a Lot of help)

[TopCat]

Have I buggered up 2 of my lipos?

Iv'e been riding around with 6 batts in my box but only 2 are hooked up at any one time. When they run out I swap them out for another 2. Lastnight I had 2 batts in my box while I was charging the others. The 2 batts in my box were hooked up to my Turnigy watt meter and I forgot about them, this morning I went to try charging them up but no joy? Any type of charge I try comes up with LOW VOLTAGE on my ICharger 1010B+. Have I buggered up 2 of my batts by leaving them hooked up all night? .... or is there any way to rescue them? There new batts and have only been charged up 3 times.

Regards
Tom

[AussieJester]

Have I buggered up 2 of my lipos?

We don't know have you?

I certainly hope after 3 pages of instruction on how to connect and charge your LiPOs
you didn't get it wrong ..... my initial post might have been better advice after all :-S

KiM

[TopCat]

Ha ha Kim, I pressed the wrong button --- Submit instead of Preview once i'd done the post header

Regards
Tom

[AussieJester]

Ha ha Kim, I pressed the wrong button --- Submit instead of Preview once i'd done the post header

Regards
Tom

So whats the story ToPCaT whats up with the LiPO? Over charge them over discharge them make fire come from them? LoL

KiM

[TopCat]

So whats the story ToPCaT whats up with the LiPO? Over charge them over discharge them make fire come from them? LoL
KiM

Iv'e probably over discharge them by leaving them hooked up to my watt meter all night

Regards
Tom

[RallySTX]

That's a big no no Tom, time to slap ya up now. We warned ya about that. Put em on the charger alone in a fireproof bag, and try to trickle charge them in short bursts, checking the voltage after each charge. If no progress shows, they are toast. Be extremely careful watching for puffing or smoke, as this is the warning sign of impending doom. You're lucky they didn't reverse polarize and fry the bike. I think that's the solution, check with Liveforphysics or Ypedal or someone with more experience, but I believe that's the solution. Neglecting your lipo's already, shame on you!
Brian L.

[RallySTX]

I'm gonna drag this out a bit for safety's sake. After studying a bit I found that Devrees who is an established member had this to say about discharged cells.

Absolutely NEVER Exceed 4.3v/cell, never Discharge below 2.7v/cell, never puncture the cells.

With other cells, they often give warnings similar to that, and you can break the rules as much as you want, and suffer nothing, or maybe a little drop in cell capacity. LiPo is NOT like other batteries in this regard, when you break the golden rule, often even just one time, you are effectively telling the battery to fail into a ball of fire.

If you wish to use LiPo, you MUST follow that rule. No exceptions here. No room for error. No Oops, my charger reset, no excuses.

The most simple way to follow that rule is to use the wide range of awesome microprocessor controlled chargers made for LiPo batteries. They will never let the first part of the rule be broken.

For the second part of the rule, you need to watch your pack voltage while riding, or setup a LVC if you are the forgetful type. If you do ever deep discharge a cell, you are in no immediate danger. As long as the cell doesn't reverse polarity it wont explode just from excessive discharge. However, when you go to re-charge that cell, this is when you will see the fireworks. If you want to attempt to re-charge a deep discharged cell, do it in an area that you wouldn't mind making a bonfire. Maybe invite buddies over to watch. You can always stab it to make it go off if it doesn't go by itself. A deep discharged cell should never be trusted again in a string with good cells.

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=22949

Read from the link above for more data.
Brian L.

[AussieJester]

If you have read all the info on lipo in the battery section and are still struggling to come to terms with basics, it worries me a little you buying lithium polymer, perhaps lifepo4 would be more suited in this case, a Lifp04 Ping pack would suit yur setup and be alot easier to manage. lithium polymer can be dangerous if you don't have at least some basic knowledge and understanding of their requirements.
KiM

^^I stand by my first post in this thread i had a bad feeling about recommend LiPO from the start ^^

Your packs are likely damaged and thus unusable
if you wish to try charging them you could try
charging each cell individually with a
something like a mobile phone charger for example..

KiM

EDiT: I just gotta ask to, why are you only using 2 packs in your bike at a time? Why dont you parallel or parallel and series all the packs, charge them all at once and use all of them on the bike?

[BikeFanatic]

"LOW VOLTAGE on my ICharger 10"

I get that error message when I have even slightly overdischarged the batteries. I think you can charge them up slowly on the lower setting supervised.

Do you know what the individual cell voltages are? you only left it hooked to the watt meter so it slowly discharged the batts, I think there is hope.

One way to recharge the pack is to charge it at 5 series setting ( if you are using six series batteries)
and charge at low current say 0.5 AMPS, for a few minutes. watch your pack bump up to 3.75 volts per cell and then switch over to 6 series charging. charge the pack where you can keep an eye on it
feeling for heat. outside would be best.

When I was new to lipo I over discharged on pack to death, the others all came back with this method.

[dogman]

Yeah you wrecked em. Never trust em again, if they went below or above the stated numbers previously said. Check the voltage though, and if none of the cells got below 3v, then charge it up and keep going. Mark em so you know which ones it was. Bet they don't last as long as the others.

You might need to do something awkward to get em charged, like the post above says.

And paralell them to ride, duuuuh.

[TopCat]

If you have read all the info on lipo in the battery section and are still struggling to come to terms with basics, it worries me a little you buying lithium polymer, perhaps lifepo4 would be more suited in this case, a Lifp04 Ping pack would suit yur setup and be alot easier to manage. lithium polymer can be dangerous if you don't have at least some basic knowledge and understanding of their requirements.
KiM

^^I stand by my first post in this thread i had a bad feeling about recommend LiPO from the start ^^

Your packs are likely damaged and thus unusable
if you wish to try charging them you could try
charging each cell individually with a
something like a mobile phone charger for example..

KiM

EDiT: I just gotta ask to, why are you only using 2 packs in your bike at a time? Why dont you parallel or parallel and series all the packs, charge them all at once and use all of them on the bike?

Kim, Your probably right in your first statement. I should have just stuck to heavy SLA batts. Also see page 3 of this thread -- about hooking up in parallel etc. I just haven't gotten around to it yet. As to charging them all at once, I think your tempting fate there but as it happens I was thinking of getting one of these Paraboard thingys (a new version is due out in the next few weeks with 4mm bullet connectors). ...but ive been told that my charger aint powerful enough to charger all my 6 batts at once?

http://epbuddy.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=15&products_id=110


For running all 6 batts at once on my bike I may just buy one of these to save me trying to make up some kinda lead(s) and blowing myself up.

4mm Bullet Conector Parallel Charge Cable X6

http://epbuddy.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=26_14&products_id=165

Yeah you wrecked em. Never trust em again, if they went below or above the stated numbers previously said. Check the voltage though, and if none of the cells got below 3v, then charge it up and keep going. Mark em so you know which ones it was. Bet they don't last as long as the others.

You might need to do something awkward to get em charged, like the post above says.

And paralell them to ride, duuuuh.

Now dont everyone go shouting at me all at once for probably doing something stupid and or risky, but as it turns out I managed to fix them?

After hours of fiddling around with the ICharger 1010B+ settings and not having any joy I sat thinking that there must be some way to jump-start the batts so that they would be recognised by the charger in the lipo seting?. I put the charger onto NIHM setting and 1.0amp. I then set the charger running. I let it charge fora bit then stopped the charger and let eveything settle for a while. I kept doing this until the batt read 16V. I then returned the charger to the Lipo settings and 5.0amp and balance charged up the batt. All went well, so I repeated the same process for the second batt. No Smoke, No Explosions. House still in one piece.....Job done.

Regards
Tom

[RallySTX]

Hot damb, if those batts aren't puffy or swollen at all and still function properly, they can still be used for stuff. We have had several posters here who blew a controller or motor as well as the batteries leaving it sit on over night. I'd say you got lucky mate. If that had been me, there would have been six dead batteries. I would use a felt pen and mark those two as bad and never use them in a pack. Just run them out by themselves like you have been doing on the small bike. If they are added to a larger pack, they might fail, and bring down all the rest. That parallel harness for chargeing, will not series the batteries by itself. It just turns one set of connectors, into manny, so you can charge lots of batteries. If you want to series up a pack for a bike, you need to find a harness that does what the harness on the blue bike does, or make one like we discussed. Unless of course you are planning to double up the batteries directly between each set of connectors. That might bite you in the arse, as the main problem is that harness wasn't built to take the voltage or amps it will be seeing. Don't be surprised if it gets a bit warm while rideing. Best of luck mate.
Brian L.

[dogman]

So how low did those batteries get discharged? Better charge em in the fireplace, or outside. And don't forget how a guy who overdischarged and saved some lipo had em burst into flames while he was riding.

AJ is right, you got no buisness messing with this stuff if you don't pay attention to the rules. There is a huge difference between being a lipo dummy, (igorant and willing to learn) and being an ignoramus. ( was told but decided the rules don't apply to me)

[el_walto]

What voltage was the pack at when you charged it? If it was at above 13.5V you might not end up burning your house down.

[TopCat]

So how low did those batteries get discharged? Better charge em in the fireplace, or outside. And don't forget how a guy who overdischarged and saved some lipo had em burst into flames while he was riding.

See earlier post.

So whats the story ToPCaT whats up with the LiPO? Over charge them over discharge them make fire come from them? LoL
KiM

Iv'e probably over discharge them by leaving them hooked up to my watt meter all night

Regards
Tom

AJ is right, you got no buisness messing with this stuff if you don't pay attention to the rules. There is a huge difference between being a lipo dummy, (igorant and willing to learn) and being an ignoramus. ( was told but decided the rules don't apply to me)

I must be psychic, as I knew this was the type of responce I would get when posting of this problem. I simply forgot about the 2 batts still being hooked up in my box to my watt meter. Sadly im not nor ever will be one of the elite supermen of ES who never forgets anything and are infallible.

What voltage was the pack at when you charged it? If it was at above 13.5V you might not end up burning your house down.

I didnt take any reading of the batts at the time so I have no idea what state of discharge they were in. I was so pissed off at forgetting about them in my box and thinking i'd buggered them up.

I have marked the 2 batts so I know which they are for future refrence when charging.

Note to self.
For christs sake DONT forget about your batts again or you'll get a severe ticking of from ES members

Regards
Tom

[RallySTX]

I wouldn't worry about anyone trying to tick you off, just motivated folks looking out for your well being. All the horror stories about LIPO batteries cause over reaction sometimes. But if they didn't care, no one would bother responding.
Brian L.

[TopCat]

Whats the maximum amps you can charge 2 Turnigy 5000mAh 6S 25C batteries using an iCharger 1010B+ 300W 10s Balance/Charger and a EP Buddy Paraboard?

Regards
Tom

[psycholist]

300w/25v = 12amps. However max current on this charger is 10amps. So for 6s, max is 10amps.