Hyperion EOS 1420i NET3 14s Balance Charger...

[LI-ghtcycle]

I have one of these chargers, and I have looked over this post, but I still can't see why I am having such long charging times when balancing.

I haven't built custom balance plugs yet, so I have just been using the two ports to charge 2 4S batteries at a time, but this is the crazy part!

Ever since I changed the TVC function to charge up to just approximately 4.18 (would have it at 4.15, but that is low as I can see to adjust it so far, just using the charger's menu, haven't been able to use it with my PC yet), it wants to take like 5 years to balance!!

I'm really pulling my hair out, I had one set of batteries today, that had been wired up with 4 more 4S packs that are 2p 3S for a total of 12S 12AH (Turnigy Nano Tech 4S 6000mah packs) with them parallel first, series second, but I kid you not, I only drained 2 AH's out of the pack on a quick trip yesterday blasting around at full speed, and it took no less than 4 hours to get them reasonably balanced!!

I have also noticed, even though I am charging up each of the three sets of 2 batteries (so 3 different sets) I always have a reading for the "#8" cell being about .04V higher than the rest of the pack, so for example, cells 1-4 on the first port will read:

1) 4.144
2) 4.156
3) 4.135
4) 4.148

(then the nest set of 4 starts with #8)

8 ) 4.185
9) 4.143
10) 4.164
11) 4.152

And in one case, it took no less than 7 hours to balance!

None of my cells have been below 3.5V, I have only once done a 75% DOD of this pack, and never saw more than 9AH's drained from this 12AH pack, so far as I can tell, nothing has gone low enough to get things out of balance, but for some reason, even though I can do a standard charge in just 20 min, if I plug in the balance plugs, it takes 3+ hours?!

I'm guessing I must have changed one of the values in the user programing that I shouldn't have, I hope there is a way to "restore to factory settings" I have the other 19 memory slots to use if this is the case, but I'm thinking once I get this problem resolved, I will set it for 4.18V and to stop at 90% and see what I get.

The other thing I have noticed is that it doesn't truly end at 4.18, that often it will have most all of the cells at 4.15 and one or two above that.

Am I just looking too close?

I am wanting to charge my batteries to no more than 4.15 as I cannot afford much, and I want these batteries to last as long as possible.

[neptronix]

Actually, what is happening makes complete sense.

The chargers were designed to work with a single pack, and the balance wires themselves are quite thin, thus their balancing current is very low. For example on the iCharger 1010b, it is "<300mA".. so 0.3a.

In order to balance, the charger basically drains off the current of an overcharged cell, then fills up the whole pack with energy, drains the ones that are over, fills up the pack with energy, again and again. At least that's how i understand it.

Now this small ability to 'discharge' power from the balance leads means the balance charge will take forreevver because you have 4x the mAH it was designed for.. so the balancing takes 4x as long.. as one pack!

Maybe you can increase the balancing discharge rate. This would be okay if you had 22 or 20gauge wires at the end of the balance connector that plugs into the charger.

Or even better, don't balance charge every time.. it is not always necessary.

[LI-ghtcycle]

Actually, what is happening makes complete sense.

The chargers were designed to work with a single pack, and the balance wires themselves are quite thin, thus their balancing current is very low. For example on the iCharger 1010b, it is "<300mA".. so 0.3a.

In order to balance, the charger basically drains off the current of an overcharged cell, then fills up the whole pack with energy, drains the ones that are over, fills up the pack with energy, again and again. At least that's how i understand it.

Now this small ability to 'discharge' power from the balance leads means the balance charge will take forreevver because you have 4x the mAH it was designed for.. so the balancing takes 4x as long.. as one pack!

Maybe you can increase the balancing discharge rate. This would be okay if you had 22 or 20gauge wires at the end of the balance connector that plugs into the charger.

Or even better, don't balance charge every time.. it is not always necessary.

I understand, but you must know that my previous charger did the same thing, not as accurate, but it didn't take a fraction of the time!

I would understand if I had discharged my pack to near depletion, but I haven't, and it's literally taking 3-4X as long as my last "less powerful" charger.

I am using a 12V 15A PS, but, if I understand correctly, the balancing is going to happen at any higher amperage just because I use a mean well with higher voltage, and I don't need a RC charger to simply charge up the pack, a regular power supply can do that, I need it for the balancing.

I'm going to try just modifying the second saved settings slot for TVC, and leave everything else at defaults, and hopefully this will solve the problem.

Before I went into the user settings and messed with it, it balanced in about the same amount of time as my last charger IIRC, so I am pretty sure it is my own doing ....

[LI-ghtcycle]

Well, here's something else I found frustrating, apparently if you tell it to go for just 95% capacity, AND you happen to have the battery over, in my case, 97%, it won't balance!

Since it was reading 97% apparently this keeps it from even taking the high cells down, so in order to get it to balance this after a regular charge (no balance plugs, it senses automatically) you have to allow it to go for 100% capacity!?

Well, anyhow, here is what it was reading when I had told it to go 95% charge, hoping it would just balance, and it gave me the little "I'm done!" ditty just as I started the charge cycle since it was already on 97%:

Port:
1) 4.149
2) 4.149
3) 4.150
4) 4.149

4.190
9) 4.178
10 ) 4.171
11) 4.169

I just now started the balance cycle, really all it needs to do is take down the 8-11 down to at least 4.18 (I hear that I should be able to make finer adjustments once I plug into my PC?) so hopefully this would allow me to get everything even.

The frustrating part for me is that I will see what would appear to be an artificially high reading on port 8 (the first cell in the second pack, I am charging the two 4S packs in series, so it's like I am charging one big pack that is 8S 6000 mah, but with two balance plugs, shouldn't make a difference right?) because I have seen it look really high, even in the 4.205V range, and then the next day I start again because I didn't want to be up another 4 hours charging, and now it's reading just 4.17 or 4.18?!

I'm really scratching my head on that one, and the weird thing is I charge all the packs in the same order, but each pair individually, so it's not like I am charging the same pack every time and the first cell in the second pack is always high, it's showing that for all three pair, so this would seem to indicate a extra high charging voltage on this particular "port".

Also, these packs aren't starting with that one cell higher than the others, they start on the charger all around about the same voltage.

Maybe I need to get another charger? This wouldn't be in the margin of error for this charger would it?

I mean, if I am charging a fresh charge from lower voltages, and everything is more or less balanced, and then after the charge it's not, that can't be right?

[snowranger]

The longest time to balance has been around 50 minutes for a pretty out of balance 6s 5 ah pack. 30 mV maximum gap. 7 hours seems too long.

[LI-ghtcycle]

Ok, here is something that makes NO sense.

I just checked the balance for #8, and it started at 4.190, it is now only down to 4.184 in 34 minutes??!

Please tell me this is not normal performance for this charger!?

I seem to have gotten two lemon chargers in a row now!

[LI-ghtcycle]

Ok, here is something that makes NO sense.

I just checked the balance for #8, and it started at 4.190, it is now only down to 4.184 in 34 minutes??!

Please tell me this is not normal performance for this charger!?

I seem to have gotten two lemon chargers in a row now!

Now at 48 min. it's only down to 4.183 ......... I'm going to try starting over, and see if it comes up with a different reading on #8.

This is my first Hyperion, and I don't think this is really the charger, but maybe some user setting that I screwed up, hopefully I can figure it out looking at the Hyperion site.

My last charger was a different one altogether, don't want to give the wrong impression that I'm on a second Hyperion with problems, just really frustrated!

****EDIT**** Sorry for the Hi-Jack, I can start another thread if you like, I just realized that I have taken your thread in a different direction than I should have.

[MitchJi]

Hi,

Ever since I changed the TVC function to charge up to just approximately 4.18 (would have it at 4.15, but that is low as I can see to adjust it so far, just using the charger's menu, haven't been able to use it with my PC yet), it wants to take like 5 years to balance!!

I am wanting to charge my batteries to no more than 4.15 as I cannot afford much, and I want these batteries to last as long as possible.

I'm pretty sure the problem is setting it to 4.18. Someone did some testing with A123 cells and lowering the max voltage still gave almost the same capacity but took a lot longer to get there.

I think you can accomplish what you want (longer cell life) by setting to charge to 90% or 95% and leaving the voltage at the default.

[johnrobholmes]

I agree with changing the TCS capacity and not changing the termination voltage. Give that a shot and see what happens.

Otherwise you may have a stubborn cell that is giving the charger a hard time. That is the only time I have had the charger give me grief from long balancing times.

[LI-ghtcycle]

Thanks, I will try that.

Here is the problem however, I wanted to confirm that it wasn't a particular cell in a particular pack, so I traded sides with the packs (I am charging two 4S in series) and then I got some really bogus readings!

Previously I had nothing lower than 4.15, and nothing higher than 4.17, then it had the cells that were all nicely balanced at 4.15, and it was showing one at 4.07 and another at 4.27!?!

I think I will try like you're saying and telling it go charge just up to 85% first and see where I am with the full voltage on the TVC, and see what happens.

If I continue to get bogus readings, I will talk to my hobby shop and see about getting another one. I have looked on Hyperion's site and haven't seen anywhere I can contact them, anyone know if there is a way to email them even?

[johnrobholmes]

Hyperion really doesn't offer support directly.

Are all your balance wires the same length?

[rscamp]

Thanks, I will try that.

Here is the problem however, I wanted to confirm that it wasn't a particular cell in a particular pack, so I traded sides with the packs (I am charging two 4S in series) and then I got some really bogus readings!

Previously I had nothing lower than 4.15, and nothing higher than 4.17, then it had the cells that were all nicely balanced at 4.15, and it was showing one at 4.07 and another at 4.27!?!

I think I will try like you're saying and telling it go charge just up to 85% first and see where I am with the full voltage on the TVC, and see what happens.

If I continue to get bogus readings, I will talk to my hobby shop and see about getting another one. I have looked on Hyperion's site and haven't seen anywhere I can contact them, anyone know if there is a way to email them even?

Hmmm. I've had inconsistent readings from balancers before and I eventually traced them to bad connections. The main culprit in my case was high-resistance crimped connections in the connectors for battery balance leads. In my case, the problem occurred after months of use. You could try different balance cables if possible and/or stressing the connections in one way or another and look for changes in the parallel group voltages. If this does something, you are probably on the right track and can replace the connections or try soldering or whatever...

[LI-ghtcycle]

Hyperion really doesn't offer support directly.

Are all your balance wires the same length?

Yes they are, but I believe they are the balance connectors from my first charger, I will try the ones that came with the Hyperion and see if I get different results.

[LI-ghtcycle]

Hmmm. I've had inconsistent readings from balancers before and I eventually traced them to bad connections. The main culprit in my case was high-resistance crimped connections in the connectors for battery balance leads. In my case, the problem occurred after months of use. You could try different balance cables if possible and/or stressing the connections in one way or another and look for changes in the parallel group voltages. If this does something, you are probably on the right track and can replace the connections or try soldering or whatever...

Thanks for the idea!

I will try the new balance plugs that came with the Hyperion, this is a good point, I never thought of this!

I have been using the old balance plugs from my last charger (might be a bit warn from use, and lower quality) that would explain the inconsistent readings that have always been on the second set of balance plugs regardless of what battery was being charged!

[MitchJi]

Hi,

I have one of these chargers, and I have looked over this post, but I still can't see why I am having such long charging times when balancing.

I haven't built custom balance plugs yet, so I have just been using the two ports to charge 2 4S batteries at a time, but this is the crazy part!

Ever since I changed the TVC function to charge up to just approximately 4.18 (would have it at 4.15, but that is low as I can see to adjust it so far, just using the charger's menu, haven't been able to use it with my PC yet), it wants to take like 5 years to balance!!

Hmmm. I've had inconsistent readings from balancers before and I eventually traced them to bad connections. The main culprit in my case was high-resistance crimped connections in the connectors for battery balance leads. In my case, the problem occurred after months of use. You could try different balance cables if possible and/or stressing the connections in one way or another and look for changes in the parallel group voltages. If this does something, you are probably on the right track and can replace the connections or try soldering or whatever...

Thanks for the idea!

I will try the new balance plugs that came with the Hyperion, this is a good point, I never thought of this!

I have been using the old balance plugs from my last charger (might be a bit warn from use, and lower quality) that would explain the inconsistent readings that have always been on the second set of balance plugs regardless of what battery was being charged!

That would explain the inconsistent readings but I don't see how it explains why reducing the voltage increased the charge times.

[LI-ghtcycle]

Hi,

I have one of these chargers, and I have looked over this post, but I still can't see why I am having such long charging times when balancing.

I haven't built custom balance plugs yet, so I have just been using the two ports to charge 2 4S batteries at a time, but this is the crazy part!

Ever since I changed the TVC function to charge up to just approximately 4.18 (would have it at 4.15, but that is low as I can see to adjust it so far, just using the charger's menu, haven't been able to use it with my PC yet), it wants to take like 5 years to balance!!

Hmmm. I've had inconsistent readings from balancers before and I eventually traced them to bad connections. The main culprit in my case was high-resistance crimped connections in the connectors for battery balance leads. In my case, the problem occurred after months of use. You could try different balance cables if possible and/or stressing the connections in one way or another and look for changes in the parallel group voltages. If this does something, you are probably on the right track and can replace the connections or try soldering or whatever...

Thanks for the idea!

I will try the new balance plugs that came with the Hyperion, this is a good point, I never thought of this!

I have been using the old balance plugs from my last charger (might be a bit warn from use, and lower quality) that would explain the inconsistent readings that have always been on the second set of balance plugs regardless of what battery was being charged!

That would explain the inconsistent readings but I don't see how it explains why reducing the voltage increased the charge times.

Well, upon further inspection, I have not found fault with the balance plugs, I still have the "ghost" readings for #8 cell, always higher than the rest, but it does seem to balance things, if I switch things around, everything will be with in .02 V of each other, I guess that is ok. I'm going to call the Hobby Shop and see if they can contact Hyperion and give me some more information.

I know it doesn't make any sense, but after putting the TVC back to factory, it balances much faster?! Doesn't make sense, but it is charging at normal speed now.

One nice thing, maybe this is normal, but even when I have things set at 100% capacity, and factory setting for voltage (4.2V) it seems to get everything to 4.177 - 4.182 and calls it good.

[neptronix]

Sounds like a badly calibrated unit.. maybe there is a way to calibrate it?

[MitchJi]

Hi,

I'm pretty sure the problem is setting it to 4.18. Someone did some testing with A123 cells and lowering the max voltage still gave almost the same capacity but took a lot longer to get there.

I think you can accomplish what you want (longer cell life) by setting to charge to 90% or 95% and leaving the voltage at the default.

I have been using the old balance plugs from my last charger (might be a bit warn from use, and lower quality) that would explain the inconsistent readings that have always been on the second set of balance plugs regardless of what battery was being charged!

That would explain the inconsistent readings but I don't see how it explains why reducing the voltage increased the charge times.

I know it doesn't make any sense, but after putting the TVC back to factory, it balances much faster?! Doesn't make sense, but it is charging at normal speed now.

I think, as stated in my earlier post, it does make sense. Set it to charge to 90% or 95% and if it charges and balances at the normal speed you have solved your problems (increased cell life and normal charge/balance times).

[LI-ghtcycle]

Hi,

I'm pretty sure the problem is setting it to 4.18. Someone did some testing with A123 cells and lowering the max voltage still gave almost the same capacity but took a lot longer to get there.

I think you can accomplish what you want (longer cell life) by setting to charge to 90% or 95% and leaving the voltage at the default.

I have been using the old balance plugs from my last charger (might be a bit warn from use, and lower quality) that would explain the inconsistent readings that have always been on the second set of balance plugs regardless of what battery was being charged!

That would explain the inconsistent readings but I don't see how it explains why reducing the voltage increased the charge times.

I know it doesn't make any sense, but after putting the TVC back to factory, it balances much faster?! Doesn't make sense, but it is charging at normal speed now.

I think, as stated in my earlier post, it does make sense. Set it to charge to 90% or 95% and if it charges and balances at the normal speed you have solved your problems (increased cell life and normal charge/balance times).

Yeah, hopefully, however, it's still taking a lot longer to balance than my old charger, if I could trust the seemingly inflated #8 cell readings (which I don't) I'll see what the hobby shop has to say tomorrow. Hopefully it will be a simple fix or maybe they will send a replacement.

[GGoodrum]

It really does sound like connection issues to me, especially if it is the first or last cells in a pack. Constantly plugging and unplugging these cheap JST-HX balance connectors takes a toll on them, and increases the resistance of the connection points. This is why I always use something other than these for connection to the charger.The JST-XH pigtails, from each pack, get plugged in once, to the LVC/parallel adapter board, and only once.

-- Gary

[wineboyrider]

Ok I got my Hyperion 1420i yesterday. For now I am only using it like my old 6s chargers, but I was noticing this charger has temperature probes or whatever they are. I am only using a 12v 15amp power supply right now, but I was wondering when I get the harness to do this 12s will I need the temperature probes or whatever?? I really only need to charge at say 5amps or so for my 12s pack to make me happy , but the temperature probes are new for me??? Are these only for higher watt charges as I had no problem charging my lipo @ 6s without them yesterday???

[GGoodrum]

Ok I got my Hyperion 1420i yesterday. For now I am only using it like my old 6s chargers, but I was noticing this charger has temperature probes or whatever they are. I am only using a 12v 15amp power supply right now, but I was wondering when I get the harness to do this 12s will I need the temperature probes or whatever?? I really only need to charge at say 5amps or so for my 12s pack to make me happy , but the temperature probes are new for me??? Are these only for higher watt charges as I had no problem charging my lipo @ 6s without them yesterday???

They are not required, but are just an extra safety precaution, going back to the days when LiPos were a lot less reliable. If you had a bad cell, which was not uncommon in the early days, the pack could go into thermal runaway. I haven't seen this happen for years, and even the cheapest of the Turnigy/Zippy family of packs are quite robust.

I should have the 12s connection harness kits up on the site later today, or tomorrow, for sure. I just need to finish up the instructions, which I'm working on right now.

I'm also going to do some package deals with a combo of the connection kit, with the charger, and then another combo with the connection kit, the charger and the 12s LVC/parallel adapter kits.

-- Gary

[wineboyrider]

By the way thanks Gary!

[LI-ghtcycle]

Just wanted to pass along, I have since started charging to 90% only, and now I get the type of charging times I would have expected, however, it would seem that one bank of cells always charges more than the others, so I guess I should switch to the other set of connectors that came with it and see if things change.

Right now with it charging up batteries that were pretty well balanced to start with (at least according to the charger) they get further apart in balance as they charge, for example a typical spread for 90% charged set to 4.18 maximum is:

4.07
4.11
4.13
4.12

4.17
4.18
4.16
4.19

[GGoodrum]

This because of too much voltage drop, in the main wires. The first and last cells are seeing this voltage drop, so the readouts appear off. I think if you measured each cell with a volt meter, they might actually be closer.

-- Gary