"Zephyr" - Finally, the "v4" Fechter/Goodrum/Hecker BMS...

Batteries, Chargers, and Battery Management Systems.

Re: "Zephyr" - Finally, the "v4" Fechter/Goodrum/Hecker BMS.

Postby fechter » Sun Mar 04, 2012 8:30 pm

I wouldn't mind learing a new software, especially if it can generate industry standard files for making boards.
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Re: "Zephyr" - Finally, the "v4" Fechter/Goodrum/Hecker BMS.

Postby Alan B » Sun Mar 04, 2012 9:21 pm

Both Eagle and Diptrace generate industry standard files.
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Re: "Zephyr" - Finally, the "v4" Fechter/Goodrum/Hecker BMS.

Postby fechter » Sun Mar 04, 2012 10:24 pm

I see Diptrace has a free trial. For a paid version, I'm not sure what my pin count would be. For a large-ish panel, the pin count could be mighty high. I can probably estimate it.

I might be able to score an educational version of Eagle. I think it may be too limited though.

If I used a limited version of the software to make one board, the panel would be just copy/paste of the individual boards. Possibly I could get someone with a full version of the software to do the copy/paste part for me (with no pin count limitation). :idea:
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Re: "Zephyr" - Finally, the "v4" Fechter/Goodrum/Hecker BMS.

Postby Alan B » Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:51 am

I believe there is a free version of Eagle as well. Both products have a free trial, or a free version limited to pin count or board size, but enough to learn the package and decide whether to buy it or not.

Gold Phoenix will step and repeat for you, as I understand it, so you just have to do one board.

If you have friends that will help you with one program or the other that might be a good reason to start with that package first and see if you like it.
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Re: "Zephyr" - Finally, the "v4" Fechter/Goodrum/Hecker BMS.

Postby adrian_sm » Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:01 am

Free version of Eagle is limited to 100x80mm 2 sides. So probably too small for doing your actual boards.
http://www.cadsoftusa.com/downloads/freeware/

And if you are doing these for profit, you would have to get the Standard version. Pricing here:
http://www.cadsoftusa.com/shop/pricing/?language=en
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Re: "Zephyr" - Finally, the "v4" Fechter/Goodrum/Hecker BMS.

Postby Alan B » Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:09 am

I posted info on the pricing and links, but it was in another thread. :(

For commercial use Diptrace is cheaper than Eagle.
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Re: "Zephyr" - Finally, the "v4" Fechter/Goodrum/Hecker BMS.

Postby SlyCayer » Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:36 am

I can get that software full for free, I sent you a PM Fechter.
http://www.JCCayer.com Where you can find tools and Dewalt(A123) batteries.
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Re: "Zephyr" - Finally, the "v4" Fechter/Goodrum/Hecker BMS.

Postby scriewy » Wed Mar 14, 2012 3:16 am

what what, dramatic nooooooooooo........

i remember the version 2.x were performing ok, all through hole parts, and ver 4.x with through hole parts with extra features that gary tested turned out ok, but i never saw anywhere what's an actual price of 2.x or 4.x BMS's, or the BOM price for 2.x or 4.x, so what was the estimated tag you thought to put if the boards were in production manually assembled ? (as this was the main reason to try transferring to SMT, too much labor with through hole)

any 1 remember top of their head BOM price to assemble 2.x or 4.x ? i followed a lot this thread but i totally don't remember at what page the BOM's were mentioned.

any ways how many people are interested in this great boardy ? now is the time to practice the "power of many" or "the change starts with you", i can spare 10$ a month without expecting for a time frame or anything in return for next 6 month unless i die or kidnapped by aliens (i don't mean that after 6 months i expect for anything, it's just a period i can spare), i know it's not much and though my relative salary is pretty ok avg around 1300$ full time, problem is most of it covers rent and bills, and 10$ is something that wont take me to the grave.

my 10$ alone is didly squat, but 100 members and that's something to work with.
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Re: "Zephyr" - Finally, the "v4" Fechter/Goodrum/Hecker BMS.

Postby fechter » Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:50 pm

It's not dead, it's just sleeping.
(picture parrot)

I haven't had time lately to deal with this, but I'm sure there's a way to bring it alive again.
I DO have Eagle running. There's a learning curve. ExpressPCB is still an option.

Building a board with this many parts is a major pain and not many people want to do it. Fully built boards would have a much larger market but is a huge investment. Before that, more of a track record needs to be established with the hand built version.

Pricing will have to include a fairly large chunk for paying back development costs. Even at that, there is little to no economic incentive to the project. We'd have to sell hundreds of them just to break even.
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Re: "Zephyr" - Finally, the "v4" Fechter/Goodrum/Hecker BMS.

Postby SlyCayer » Mon Mar 19, 2012 10:54 am

fechter wrote:We'd have to sell hundreds of them just to break even.


I think it's doable \o/, don't you think?
http://www.JCCayer.com Where you can find tools and Dewalt(A123) batteries.
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Re: "Zephyr" - Finally, the "v4" Fechter/Goodrum/Hecker BMS.

Postby Alan B » Mon Mar 19, 2012 6:00 pm

I would tend to think more in terms of reasonable profit on present/future products than recovering previously sunk costs. That will come in due time, but it is depressing to think that way and it is not how customers perceive the product.
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Re: "Zephyr" - Finally, the "v4" Fechter/Goodrum/Hecker BMS.

Postby fechter » Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:43 pm

I've always held on to the belief that in order for a product to be useful, it has to be affordable (and work). Regardless of the development costs, be assured that the pricing will be somewhat reasonable.

I haven't given up on the idea of modifying a Ping board to work either. I have a simple mod that will bypass the active cutoff for the main controller load, but keep it in line for the controller logic, so the pack still can't drain below LVC. This will allow it to work for big amps on discharge. Still not sure about charging though.
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Re: "Zephyr" - Finally, the "v4" Fechter/Goodrum/Hecker BMS.

Postby chroot » Mon Mar 19, 2012 8:45 pm

@fechter - Is Gary (Goodrrum) alive? I have not see him activity lately.
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Re: "Zephyr" - Finally, the "v4" Fechter/Goodrum/Hecker BMS.

Postby fechter » Mon Mar 19, 2012 9:33 pm

Last I heard from him was about a month ago. Like posted earlier, he needs money to eat, pay mortgage, etc. so is working on things that make money, not BMS circuits. Both of us are dangerously close to losing our homes.
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Re: "Zephyr" - Finally, the "v4" Fechter/Goodrum/Hecker BMS.

Postby SamTexas » Mon Mar 19, 2012 10:13 pm

fechter wrote:Last I heard from him was about a month ago. Like posted earlier, he needs money to eat, pay mortgage, etc. so is working on things that make money, not BMS circuits. Both of us are dangerously close to losing our homes.

I'm sorry to hear that. I hope things will work out for both of you. I assume that this is mainly caused by the general declining home value in California, right?
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Re: "Zephyr" - Finally, the "v4" Fechter/Goodrum/Hecker BMS.

Postby fechter » Mon Mar 19, 2012 10:27 pm

SamTexas wrote:I'm sorry to hear that. I hope things will work out for both of you. I assume that this is mainly caused by the general declining home value in California, right?


Well, in my case, it's mainly due to having 3 kids in college at the same time combined with a very high cost of living in my area (Marin county, CA). If I survive working 3 jobs, I can probably get the kids through college.
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Re: "Zephyr" - Finally, the "v4" Fechter/Goodrum/Hecker BMS.

Postby 999zip999 » Mon Mar 19, 2012 10:28 pm

What you pay for gas in texas ? Bay area is the most expense for everything.
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Re: "Zephyr" - Finally, the "v4" Fechter/Goodrum/Hecker BMS.

Postby SamTexas » Mon Mar 19, 2012 10:54 pm

fechter wrote:
Well, in my case, it's mainly due to having 3 kids in college at the same time combined with a very high cost of living in my area (Marin county, CA). If I survive working 3 jobs, I can probably get the kids through college.

I understand what you're going through. My two kids just finished college, one in May 2011 and one in December 2011. Hang in there, things can only get better.
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Re: "Zephyr" - Finally, the "v4" Fechter/Goodrum/Hecker BMS.

Postby Alan B » Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:12 pm

Then they move back home and still need support. :(
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Re: "Zephyr" - Finally, the "v4" Fechter/Goodrum/Hecker BMS.

Postby Tom_D » Sun Mar 25, 2012 2:16 pm

fechter wrote:" both of our wives have prohibited us from working on the project anymore after wasting so much time and money with little hope of recovering it."

350 + pages on this BMS topic, then ANOTHER 350+ pages on the same topic, then ANOTHER 40+ pages of "Finally" pages,
enough already ?

here's where to order:
http://www.tppacks.com/products.asp?cat=26

enough already ?
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Re: "Zephyr" - Finally, the "v4" Fechter/Goodrum/Hecker BMS.

Postby Gregb » Sun Mar 25, 2012 7:48 pm

Nobody is forcing you to read them.............do you have a compulsion???????? :wink:
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Re: "Zephyr" - Finally, the "v4" Fechter/Goodrum/Hecker BMS.

Postby gge5 » Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:07 pm

Tom_D wrote:here's where to order:
http://www.tppacks.com/products.asp?cat=26


I was just going to place my order, but the TP Packs website is selling old printers, software, and movies from the mid 1990's?
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Re: "Zephyr" - Finally, the "v4" Fechter/Goodrum/Hecker BMS.

Postby ohzee » Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:46 pm

Yea from what I can tell this venture is not atm cost worthy and the guys are doing their real jobs.

Web page has not worked for some time.
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Re: "Zephyr" - Finally, the "v4" Fechter/Goodrum/Hecker BMS.

Postby iconoclast » Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:39 pm

@Fechter/Goodrum:

Are any of the latest Zephyr boards still available? If not, how much would it take to make a small production run worthwhile?

I understand they would be unsupported.
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Re: "Zephyr" - Finally, the "v4" Fechter/Goodrum/Hecker BMS.

Postby fechter » Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:34 am

I hope to get a run of boards done at some point. I need to revise and check the most recent version very carefully before submitting a run, as mistakes are too costly. Once the layout is 'validated' with a successful test, a larger batch could be done. Right now, time availability is more of a limiting factor than money.
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