Water bottle battery

mud2005

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Hi all, I saw this thread http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=19872 and it really got me thinkin... whats possible within the size of a water bottle.
It seems like lipos might be difficult to fit because of their squareness, but I wonder how many of those round a123 cells or similar you could fit in one.
has anyone here been down this path?
whats a good source for lg. bottles with large cap? it looks like Nader is using a Laken 1.5 liter bottle.
is there a source for cylindrical a123 cells? would that be the best option for a bottle?
cheers :)
 
Not much. Here is a sample;
 

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Did you see Nader's build log from german pedelec forums? He has a thread on building his water bottle battery from LiMn Konions 36V5Ah in 10S3P.

http://translate.google.com/transla...t=neuer+flaschenakku&sl=de&tl=en&hl=&ie=UTF-8

4296.png

4299.png

4300.png


Images are all Naders.

I'd use the most energy dense chemistry available. Probably not LiFePO4.
 
Hi dodjob,

I have seen these from a couple of different sources now and i must agree that they do look really nice and neat, the ones i have seen however are perhaps twice the size of a normal bike bottle. The shops tend to not show it installed on a bike because then you would realise that its not a normal bike bottle sized battery :wink:

Still a really nice product though.

Edit: Found a pic of a 36v 10AH one here http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/388654388/E_Bike_battery_water_bottle_battery.html Obviously the 36v 12AH one will be about 15-20% bigger.
 
never could locate one of those Laken bottles, but I found this bottle at the store today.
holds a 6s 6AH lipo pack no problem and it fits in a water bottle cage :mrgreen:

bottle1.JPG
bottle2.JPG
bottle3.JPG
 
What you will probably find in those water bottle batteries is these, or something much like them:

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=29504

Or also some high density li-mn / li-NMC type stuff in 18650 format. I've seen up to 2700mAH in newer 18650's with 2C-5C discharge rates. Very impressive.
 
If you're in UK you can get one from Kudoscycles.com for £278. You'll find it in the "Spare Parts" section for the King Carbon. I believe that they do two. Something like 9aH and 11.5aH, but that doesn't show in their listings, so if you want the bigger one, you should send them an e-mail or give them a call. If you want the whole kit with motor etc., you can get them from 8funbikes 01213 110492 or, if you ask them nicely, I'm sure they can get you just the battery.
 
Has anyone purchased and tested this? Any good?.....for a newbie?
 
Seen those from a couple companies.
Ampedbikes sells a few too ( and seems to pretend that they designed theirs, hehe.. )
 
I installed the 36v 10ah at my wifes bike, indeed it is much bigger then I thought it would be.
xYwSxgTE7+zrUGKszqnpFQ==.jpg
 
Awesome! Thanks for loading the pic, but we'll need more info than that.

- Is it a LiFePo4 battery?
- Where'd you get it? I did some extensive research but wasn't able to find that exact spec. Most were 24v and the ones that were 36 weren't 10ah.
- How much did it cost? w/shipping?
- Performance so far? Any regrets? Complaints? Loving it....other than the size?
 
36 v 10 Ah Li-ion no regrets, nice thing to have, although a little bit too big. from a chinese supplier, not sure which one, also forgot the price I can look it up later.
 
Suitable for the lower powered small gearmotors. It's LiMn I think, which is about as small and light as lipo. But only 1 c discharge rate.

I wouldn't want one for a 20 amp controller.
 
999zip999 said:
10a discharge.
I see various C rates. Attached are screens from Alibaba, one of the Made-In-China sellers, and A123RC. Just search for "battery bottle pack".
 

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I didn't know A123 Systems had started building LiMn Water Bottle Battery packs for A123RC and with about 3 or 4 times the normal cycle life of that cell type. Those guys must be real tight with A123 to get the exclusive rights... lol ...f***ing clowns
 
I've not heard of water bottle batteries with real A123's inside.
 
dogman said:
I've not heard of water bottle batteries with real A123's inside.

Me neither, but it can be done Dogman, I've had a look, you can get 7pcs of 26650 cells in each row. So you could do say a 12S 3P pack, it would be 5 cells long, lets call it 350mm, plus another cell on it's side at the end, so about 380mm long, plus the end caps. For a relatively small capacity pack, it's a bit big IMO, connecting the cells would also be a bit of a PITA. I have some really small 12S BMS rated 30A continuous discharge, but it would still be a bit of a squeeze to get that into such a pack. Those cases are designed for 18650 cells, you can even get the ready made plastic inserts for the cells, but only for 18650s, they also have special 10S BMS in the correct shape, but they are weak as, with about 10A continuous discharge.

I've got some long thin cases on order 110 * 75 mm cross section (outer dimensions), these are a much better shape for a pack made from 26650 cells. For a case that will probably be a bit shorter if anything than a bottle pack of 12S 3P, you can fit a 12S 4P (39V 9.2Ah) pack along with a 30A continuous BMS. I've been to the factory where they make most of these cases and will start offering aluminium case packs soon, with some nice little touches that you haven't seen elsewhere, along with discharge rates you definitely don't see anywhere else :)
 
cell_man said:
I didn't know A123 Systems had started building LiMn Water Bottle Battery packs for A123RC and with about 3 or 4 times the normal cycle life of that cell type. Those guys must be real tight with A123 to get the exclusive rights... lol ...f***ing clowns

You see it is 'circle life' - so it could be any number.
 
This is what the BMS bottle battery installed looks like. It is clean and works OK for a small "assist" type motor. Here it is shown with the Cute100F motor that lasted all of two months before burning out. Steven Deng made a few suggestions, like change the controller (which I did), but when it was apparent he had sold me a dud, he stopped replying. Another reason to buy from Cell Man, Paul. In viewing the bottle battery on the bike, it looks more like a Thermos bottle than a water bottle, but it does not scream "battery". The kit has some nice features... it has a keylock to keep it from being stolen, or in bad neighbourhoods to unlock it and take it inside. It has a cutoff switch on the bottom that disconnects the whole system. It also does not rattle at all.

However, I will be very interested to see what cell man puts together. As can be seen, there is more room to make it longer in the upwards direction. Key is to keep the design simple so it can be wrapped with leather to match grips and seat.
 

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