A123 AMP20M1HD-A Battery pack kit

[totinen]

[docnjoj]

Sorry guys not coming back so often these days, wedding Saturday coming... Anyhow, got replay from manufacturer, at the moment all is good. Will be arranging materials to be delivered to manufacturer on Monday, and then is up to manufacturer regarding completion time. Will try to push them a little.
Cheers for support

Peace and love man! Weddings take precidence over all else!
otherDoc

[docnjoj]

Just another bump to keep this from rolling of the front page!
otherDoc

[agniusm]

Hi. Was missing there for some time. All is done with wedding, married and all, back on track. Ordered material for blocks. Tomorrow will confirm delivery times to manufacturer.
From the wedding

[docnjoj]

You really do make a handsome couple! Welcome back.
otherDoc

[The fingers]

Congratulations!

[davec]

Congrats!!!!
you need a tandem e-bike-- with a just married sign on the back

[totinen]

Lovely couple. You make me smile.

[megacycle]

Here is the 6kW tester for end terminals i knocked up today. Possible testing at 45A; 90A; 135A; 180A; 225A; 270A:

Any names yet, thinking instant tan equipment or make up mirror light for the seriously vision imparied, ecolighting.
For the James Bond theme, only really Moonraker and Goldmember, i can think, had like a death laser thingamy
and with a decent dish yep it would be visible from the moon :.

Congrats and also Congrats on your excellent battery system, well thought out.

Just some thoughts on the aluminium connection set ups, led to believe that NOX is really for ac connections as a dielectric grease, like a petrol jelly, zinc suspension. i've used a similar type at work on HV a.c. terminations called Alminox.
Some of the A123 cells, also believe have an Al tab for one and a nickel plated (copper ?) for the other and some cells have nickel coated copper for both, so galvanic issues could crop up with the dissimilars and dampness.
There is some research on the subject, but most of what i've found relates to a.c.
In saying that though, quite a bit of it is also relevant to dc connections also.

vol3-3.pdf

(315.8 KiB) Downloaded 24 times

Think a dry connection might work better even though the Al is oxidised.
The greases,might be better used as a moisture barrier which could be recommended if the batteries are out in humid/damp situations where you'd get those galvanic corrosion issues, lightly coating the outer of the whole plates.

[docnjoj]

Hey megacycle
This is the stuff I got. It looks like it should help.

NO-OX-ID "A-SPECIAL" is the electrical contact grease of choice in new electrical installations and maintenance because of its excellent performance in keeping metals free from corrosion. This rust preventitive has been used for over 50 years to preventing corrosion in electrical connectors from low micro-power electronics to high voltage switchgear. NO-OX-ID A-Special prevents the formation of oxides, sulfides and other corrosion deposits on copper and aluminum surfaces and conductors can be prevented with its use. ------------>>>

otherDoc

[999zip999]

We are tailking about a coated aliu & copper connections. This zinc and or tin aolly coating my be made just for the connection so as drilling holes my help the corrision process exposing the copper and alium contact ? Or just the heat of a laser or spot welder? ect. What the best connection as for corrision ? I think we all like to be able to swap out cells. Thinker's yes you. I think it all started when you open up that first flashlight and looked in of course the batteries came out, then you unscrewed the bulb. If it worked again after that you were on your way.Agaiusm she has that LOOK in her eye's. Good Luck.

[agniusm]

Hi. thanx for the info. I am using 6082 T6 alloy which has good corosion resistivity properties yet is strong. Manufacturer got aluminium today, will let you know when they will be ready. I have developed few other toys as an option to help build the pack but this is just a glimpse and will reveal when i will have some viable info from mfr. I want to work on a tripple hole punch so it would be easy to do large amounts of cells in fraction of time, maybe sample for my self at first

[megacycle]

Hey megacycle
This is the stuff I got. It looks like it should help.

NO-OX-ID "A-SPECIAL" is the electrical contact grease of choice in new electrical installations and maintenance because of its excellent performance in keeping metals free from corrosion. This rust preventitive has been used for over 50 years to preventing corrosion in electrical connectors from low micro-power electronics to high voltage switchgear. NO-OX-ID A-Special prevents the formation of oxides, sulfides and other corrosion deposits on copper and aluminum surfaces and conductors can be prevented with its use. ------------>>>

otherDoc

It's not been proved to improve electrical conductivity with dc, only worsen it even though it has metal in suspension,
i'll try and find that paper.
with a.c. i've done we coat the item and scrub the crap out of it before we say crimp a lug on, we test for microhms and sometimes they fail the standard.
There are bimetal connecting plates for this type of connection but it's getting beyond, though there are A123 packs using these.
I suppose what i am saying is it's a good idea to research the connection methods so there's no problems later,
as a pendantic electrician the reliability of connections is bread and butter.

[JRP3]

NO-OX-ID Special A does not have any metal in suspension that I'm aware of, it's not NOALOX. NO-OX-ID is supposed to be rubbed onto the contact surfaces as a very thin film, not glopped on. I used it to lubricate my terminal bolt threads on my CALB prismatic pack as well as on the copper connecting straps. Three years so far and no issues.

[whatever]

I'm also puting together an a123 20ahr 48v nom pack, I've got copper and aluminium tabs ( korean cells ),
should I use 16 or 17 cells?
I was thinking of just folding the aluminium tab over a copper wire and trying to find some sort of plastic clip to hold it tightly together, there are some strong plastic clips that might suit are used to keep opened chip packets sealed available from supermarkets.
this is the type of clip I was thinking of but not sure if it will work

clip.jpg (16.79 KiB) Viewed 1041 times

plastic hair clip perhaps

hair clip.jpg (14.68 KiB) Viewed 1041 times

[megacycle]

NO-OX-ID Special A does not have any metal in suspension that I'm aware of, it's not NOALOX. NO-OX-ID is supposed to be rubbed onto the contact surfaces as a very thin film, not glopped on. I used it to lubricate my terminal bolt threads on my CALB prismatic pack as well as on the copper connecting straps. Three years so far and no issues.

I'm wondering what's the chemical action it has on the aluminium surface to help dc conductivity.
Be interesting to look at the msds, can't be petrol jelly then .

[whatever]

question for drbass, came across your video on victpower a123 discharge test at 100amp, you got about 18ahr for one cell,
do you know how much time it took to reach low voltage, or point where volts dropped off? ( sorry if this wrong thread)

[megacycle]

It looks to be just a step up from good old petrol jelly, aka vaseline, had a pot as an apprentice for cleaning switch contacts, according to the pdf, i posted earlier on, it's a higher temp product.
It appears it is just diplaced, somewhat, at the connection face under pressure, so even compression under a block would be good.
I'm really skeptical when i see that good old fashioned marketing full of praise and no criticism or real msds
smells of snake oil, sorry doc, no evidence to the contrary.
I'd try vaseline $2 a pot and see if you get a similar result.
Aluminium oxidises immediatley, so without chemical action how does it really improve conductivity
Sorry for raining on doc and agniusm hijacking somewhat, reckon Aluminium is still an ok choice as the blocks have a large contact area, just have to treat the contact faces accordingly and should be good.

[JRP3]

I don't think it improves conductivity directly, it just prevents corrosion and oxidation, which of course degrade conductivity. Some boating mag did a test with it and a bunch of other goop and it did the best at preserving the connection and conductivity.

[agniusm]

First, aluminum is used to clamp two tabs together and therefore oxidation is irrelevant. Second, i would keep my motor and controller dry, batteries even more so as they are most expensive part in this business. I know, you can use Teflon or Kevlar etc. materials, spec. coating and go down this road till you cant dig any deeper, but ask yourself who's gonna pay cosmic price for battery assembly kit for bike??? Rocket maybe...
As i stated many times, this is DIY kit for the price given, and everybody is welcome to do any modifications they like.
I do like criticism, but when it goes beyond whats considered reasonable in given situations, starts to annoy.
Sorry about that.

[JRP3]

Isn't aluminum to aluminum oxidation still resistive? And isn't one of the tabs not aluminum?

[megacycle]

First, aluminum is used to clamp two tabs together and therefore oxidation is irrelevant. Second, i would keep my motor and controller dry, batteries even more so as they are most expensive part in this business. I know, you can use Teflon or Kevlar etc. materials, spec. coating and go down this road till you cant dig any deeper, but ask yourself who's gonna pay cosmic price for battery assembly kit for bike??? Rocket maybe...
As i stated many times, this is DIY kit for the price given, and everybody is welcome to do any modifications they like.
I do like criticism, but when it goes beyond whats considered reasonable in given situations, starts to annoy.
Sorry about that.

Sorry just assumed they were current carrying because you specified copper and then aluminium.
What they are just clamps why are you specifiying metal at all, could just use phenolic resin board.

[agniusm]

Hi, have done a sketch for a hole punch. This could be manufactured of a block of aluminum, for pins one could use 3.5mm drill bit. Slide the tab in and punch it with a hammer. What do you think?

[docnjoj]

I guess you had better make it narrower that the distance between the 2 tabs? I would hate to have them contact through it side to side on 1 cell. Maybe make the body plastic or nylon?
otherDoc

[999zip999]

More on this plastic clamping method. I have been looking at different opions. Maybe the clip on a pants hanger ect. Whatever you would build a 16s for 48v and most all packs are set for 8s- 12s-16s -24s some 18s- 20s. But not as much out there for support.