Group Buy? Dr.Bass Steveo found 7s3p Module! Awesome Price!!

[deVries]

P.s. Length measurement on the 7s3p is apparently 230mm. So I was out by 10mm on my guesstimation.

Thanks. Very good estimate & you only overshot 10mm, not bad.

Since this defect is caused by a torch misalignment, then the root of the defect had to be isolated in that area of the welds at the top of the tabs. The defect can then apparently only occur once the cell stack is in compression inside the modules. So, maybe there is some tensional forces being exerted on the underneath side of the flimsy tabs that are welded to the bus bar above & this is causing some flex, tension, or torsion forces downward into the pouches where the defect can be created or maybe its located back up near the tab area from underneath the welds. I really think just relieving tension on the cell stack may be the trick & treat for a truly magical solution. (I keep repeating myself on this idea in case you haven't read that several times by now. )

While waiting for modules we could further speculate & bet cells about this too...

What could the torch misalignment do to these tabs, because that is the starting point of the problem? This assumes that's the only welding that is done on the cells, right? If so, let the speculation betting begin. Let's deal this hand of 5 card draw with deuces & one eyed jacks wild at least.

Everyone throw one cell into the pot & see who can win this hand. Cheaters will be shocked but A123 inside straights are most welcome!

[John in CR]

My personal opinion is that A123 have known about the cell alignment problem for a while. As they can't track exactly which cell come from which machine, they don't know which of the cells produced in Livonia are going to exhibit problems. So....best option is to dump the lot and only use known good cells.

If you were A123 and were going to dump the cells, why not get some return in the process and sell them to the Chinese (who have no real morals or recourse when it comes to quality of product) and let them sell them off without A123 even acknowledging that they exist. A123 make some money, the Chinese trading company makes some money....and we get access to product that we had no chance of being able to obtain had their not been a problem with their production.

So.....along with the possibility that the non-US manufacturers of these cells need to maintain production and backdoor cells to keep workers gainfully employed....there are a whole bunch of US manufactured cells and modules that contain up to 25% "dud" cells that have hit the grey market.

I thought that it was a really bad scenario that A123 could:

a) work themselves into a business scenario where they have contracted more production than sales....thus grey market cells

b) produce faulty cells and modules on a super-modern state of the art manufacturing facility built on up to $240M of US Government funding

But.....if this didn't happen, we would not have had the opportunity to purchase these fantastic cells and modules.....albeit with a risk of some failure and loss capacity which can hopefully be repaired without dangerous incident.

So.....some good comes from some bad.

P.s. Length measurement on the 7s3p is apparently 230mm. So I was out by 10mm on my guesstimation.

Sutho,

I agree 100%, though I think our odds are better than 75%, since not all cells coming off that machine are bad. Hopefully packs made with only or a majority of cells coming off the bad machine I can't wait for your evaluation of how easy these packs are to disassemble.

The sad part in the A123 saga is that even with the taxpayer money A123 is nowhere close to producing, much less selling, good production run batteries at these prices. Their cells are already old tech, though I haven't seen a match for their power density in a safe form with comparable cycle life. More than anything else, our revolution needs good safe batteries for $200/kwh or less, but then our relatively empty spaces left by cars will quickly evaporate.

John

[docnjoj]

I'll tell you John, even at $200/kw car batteries are still gonna cost about 8 grand to replace. That still makes electric cars expensive, unless these newer cells last 20 years. Anyhoo I just got 14 of the 20ah ones from Xin and they have no obvious defects and all were 3.27-3.28 volts. No lumps or bumps that I can feel either and absolutely straight tabs. Lucky? We will see. I did look carefully at the those new modules and it looks to me like it will be easier to assemble what I want from the individual cells. They don't look that easy to get apart. I could be wrong.
otherDoc

[SlyCayer]

Hey,

By the way, I am in for 8 X 7S3P packs if you decide to do a group buy... from what I had read it's $283.30 USD each?

[deVries]

By the way, I am in for 8 X 7S3P packs if you decide to do a group buy... from what I had read it's $283.30 USD each?

We should know a lot more in the next week or two from now. Yes, that price is correct.

[MN Driver]

no weight or dimension info yet?

Here's the pricing I got:
Price :42.8$ for 1s1p
Price :283.3$ for 7S3P
Price :1600.0$ for 42s3p
Price :1052.3$ for 6S13P
Price :1066.6$ for 28s3p


one 7s3p and a 28s3p would be great for my motorcycle. That'd be 1349.90 for a 35s3p 112V 60Ah 6.7kwh pack (and compatible with my charger, controller and BMS). That's ~$200/kwh, wow.

Just need dimensional information, I won't order them if I can't put to use the modules in my motorcycle.

I'm taking guesses that i might not be able to fit a 42s pack where I need and getting 28s packs leaves me out 28 cells if there is an issue leaving me with a workable pack when I jumper around it, I'll buy a spare as a 'just in case'. Looking for close to 100 cells in series.

So 4 of the 28s3p packs would be $4266.44 plus 2 of the 7s3p is $566.60. $4833.04 grand total That would be 98 cells in series with a 28s pack sitting off to the side in the garage. Considering the guys getting these are getting between 18Ah and sometimes a little over 19Ah, I'd have to figure 18Ah when figuring capacity so 98s of 3.2v 54Ah = 17kwh probably. Not bad.
How much could we figure shipping would be?

[deVries]

no weight or dimension info yet?

Here's the pricing I got:
Price :42.8$ for 1s1p
Price :283.3$ for 7S3P
Price :1600.0$ for 42s3p
Price :1052.3$ for 6S13P
Price :1066.6$ for 28s3p

one 7s3p and a 28s3p would be great for my motorcycle. That'd be 1349.90 for a 35s3p 112V 60Ah 6.7kwh pack (and compatible with my charger, controller and BMS). That's ~$200/kwh, wow.

Just need dimensional information, I won't order them if I can't put to use the modules in my motorcycle.

I'm taking guesses that i might not be able to fit a 42s pack where I need and getting 28s packs leaves me out 28 cells if there is an issue leaving me with a workable pack when I jumper around it, I'll buy a spare as a 'just in case'. Looking for close to 100 cells in series.

So 4 of the 28s3p packs would be $4266.44 plus 2 of the 7s3p is $566.60. $4833.04 grand total That would be 98 cells in series with a 28s pack sitting off to the side in the garage. Considering the guys getting these are getting between 18Ah and sometimes a little over 19Ah, I'd have to figure 18Ah when figuring capacity so 98s of 3.2v 54Ah = 17kwh probably. Not bad.
How much could we figure shipping would be?

You can email their contact directly about shipping. The EVTV guy said he got the 28s3p pack for $10 per cell, so there might be some wiggle room already on pricing. (Though he has already bought over 1,000 loose cells.)

No one has started the "group buy" yet, because we are waiting for more info about these packs before attempting a group buy. Need feedback here about modules 1st, IMO.

[manywelps]

You can email their contact directly about shipping. The EVTV guy said he got the 28s3p pack for $10 per cell, so there might be some wiggle room already on pricing. (Though he has already bought over 1,000 loose cells.)

Would you happen to have a link?

[deVries]

You can email their contact directly about shipping. The EVTV guy said he got the 28s3p pack for $10 per cell, so there might be some wiggle room already on pricing. (Though he has already bought over 1,000 loose cells.)

Would you happen to have a link?

http://www.victpower.cn/product/552771685-210447990/A123_Scalable_Prismatic_Module_7s3p_.html

email address is somewhere in this thread...

[Sutho]

Based on my experience....don't send any money to Victpower at this point. They don't have modules to ship. I paid my money, they asked me to pay an additional $900 for freight cos' they got the freight cost wrong......then they told me that they want to ship me part of my order and then more when they have more bits.

Will let you know how this pans outs.....

[SlyCayer]

DeVries, I just ordered myself 1 sample module 7S3P, when I get it, I will be taking detailed pictures, and looking deeper on how the pack was built and etc, and ofc the quality of it.

[deVries]

DeVries, I just ordered myself 1 sample module 7S3P, when I get it, I will be taking detailed pictures, and looking deeper on how the pack was built and etc, and ofc the quality of it.

Hey, good news! Look forward to your pictures & review. Thank you!!!

Based on my experience....don't send any money to Victpower at this point. They don't have modules to ship. I paid my money, they asked me to pay an additional $900 for freight cos' they got the freight cost wrong......then they told me that they want to ship me part of my order and then more when they have more bits.

Will let you know how this pans outs.....

Hmmm... Not a good sign for sure...

[valerun]

subscribed

[EVPowers]

I'll be watching this thread closely. I'm looking at this for hybrid car or small EV applications.
It would be helpful to know some of the dimensions, especially the 42s3p.
To provide more flexibility of configuration, it might be easier to be easier to do six of the 7s3p instead. (But would cost a bit more.)

[oatnet]

Based on my experience....don't send any money to Victpower at this point. They don't have modules to ship. I paid my money, they asked me to pay an additional $900 for freight cos' they got the freight cost wrong......then they told me that they want to ship me part of my order and then more when they have more bits.

Will let you know how this pans outs.....

I hope that is only with the 7s3p, I ordered a 42s3p, and was hoping to get the tracking # soon.

-JD

[Sutho]

Xin from Victpower is trying to sort my order. Will now ship in 2 consignments which should leave today and tomorrow. Although it seemed like they were making various excuses for not dispatching the modules, it now seems like they are trying to do the right thing.

[deVries]

... then they told me that they want to ship me part of my order and then more when they have more bits.

I hope that is only with the 7s3p, I ordered a 42s3p, and was hoping to get the tracking # soon.

-JD

Look forward to your review and/or analysis JD.

Sutho, did they tell you how many they would ship now? Just curious if that number was close to 22 or not?

Xin from Victpower is trying to sort my order. Will now ship in 2 consignments which should leave today and tomorrow.

Ooops, I see we posted about the same time... so, let us know how many are shipped per "consignment" ?

[parabellum]

Although it seemed like they were making various excuses for not dispatching the modules, it now seems like they are trying to do the right thing.

I am sure they are following this tread and every complain here is not overseen.

[SlyCayer]

They haven't replied to my message yet.

Edit: Just got one.

[deVries]

I am sure they are following this tread and every complain here is not overseen.

That would be very good, if true...

At least the contact person seems to follow-up & sort things out ... so far...

[Sutho]

I am sure they are following this tread and every complain here is not overseen.

Yes they are. Xin emailed me about my post last night.

They are dispatching 12 units today and 10 tomorrow.

[deVries]

I am sure they are following this tread and every complain here is not overseen.

Yes they are. Xin emailed me about my post last night.

They are dispatching 12 units today and 10 tomorrow.

Wow. That's very good customer service to be following this thread & contact you too! (IMO.)

I ordered a 42s3p, and was hoping to get the tracking # soon.

-JD

JD, let us know how much shipping is too. Thanks.

[oatnet]

JD, let us know how much shipping is too. Thanks.

A123 (42s3p) Scalable Prismatic Module price 1600.0$
A123 (7s3p) Scalable Prismatic Module Price 283.3.$
Goods price :1883.3$
Shipping cost :780.9$
If via paypal to pay ,will has a bit transfer fee 104.2$
So in total: 2768.4$.

(hmm $300 kwh)

-JD

[deVries]

JD, let us know how much shipping is too. Thanks.

A123 (42s3p) Scalable Prismatic Module price 1600.0$
A123 (7s3p) Scalable Prismatic Module Price 283.3.$
Goods price :1883.3$
Shipping cost :780.9$
If via paypal to pay ,will has a bit transfer fee 104.2$
So in total: 2768.4$.

(hmm $300 kwh)

-JD

Thanks!

Does Paypal offer any protection when paying into an overseas account?

Otherwise, I would think wire transfer would be less $

(Btw, thanks JD for the detailed reply in your Vectrix thread. Are these A123 possibly destined for this same build? )

[heathyoung]

If only the 42S3P would fit, alas it is 100mm to long (at least)!

The 7S3P modules have a better chance of fitting methinks. I wonder how A123's go in parallel with 40AH thundersags....