Group Buy? Dr.Bass Steveo found 7s3p Module! Awesome Price!!

[peterperkins]

Xin has quoted me.

Price :42.8$ for 1s1p(FOB)

Price :283.3$ for 7S3P

Price :1600.0$ for 42s3p

Price :1052.3$ for 6S13P

Price :1066.6$ for 28s3p

Shipping to UK of 2 x 28S3P and 2x1S1P as $1050 Total price around £2000 about £11 per cell for UK not inc import duty and vat

They cannot /will not provide any module size information.
Nor will they supply voltage test details at the terminals so we could at least ascertain if the packs might be ok.
It's not that difficult to place a voltmeter on the terminals and take a pic

A gamble Hmm.

I have sent a further e-mail requesting a voltmeter be placed on a few packs and the pics posted.

[cwah]

Do they sell the module to individuals? So no need to buy 100 of them?

[Sutho]

Well.....I bit the bullet and bought 22 x 7s3p units.

I was about to order the individual cells and go through the arduous task of packaging them. This is much easier.

I have a pretty good idea where these come from too. The bulk of them would be the packs that include the potential "soft short" which could result in failure or capacity loss. But I have seen evidence that shows that some have been removed from Fisker packs.

I need 18 packs.....so I purchased 22. I reckon if a pack fails I will swap it out. If a cell group fails I will cut that group out of the pack and replace it with a group out of a spare pack. The busbar will need to be carefully re-welded.

So.....providing the packs don't fail in a dramatic or dangerous fashion, I reckon these are good value. I also think there's a gonna be heaps available......probably close to $55m worth.

[agniusm]

Looks like A123 is shaking off responsibility and pushing them without warranty through sorts of victpower, and i got dead cells of them. I wander just why, why not sell them to individuals without going through no warranty Chinese distributors? Is there something wrong with these modules/cells? There is no real life experience with them long term. Packs are nice, but tabs are welded to busbar with laser and replacing damaged/bad cell would be some job, and loosing whole module because of one or two cells would be costly. I think A123 going tits up and just salvaging what they can.

P.S. They cant give you even voltages on the module? WTF? I mean its not 5 dollar ice cream people are buying! Can in a bag.

Will be waiting for feedback from Sutho.

[Teh Stork]

Well holy shit that is cheap... Could easily build a motorcycle with 3 or 4 of these modules.

[o00scorpion00o]

There is also a guy in Ireland who uses the online name of "Jack Bauer"- and he has built an EV.

Coincidence? Possibly.

He didn't by any chance convert a green bmw ?

[drewjet]

I was a member of the failed SangesF group buy. I just sent a request for a price on 7 of these. WOW 2/3 the price and already made into a pack!

No group buy for me this time!

[spkpn]

sign me up for 3 of the 3p7s modules or alternatively for one of the 28s2p modules.

[Harold in CR]

Price quote I just received is, $426.60 for the 7S3P module shipped to Vero Beach, Fl. This, compared to $449.20 for 13 single cells shipped to the same address. Someone posted they will NOT do voltage readings on the modules before shipping ?? That concerns me, being they have a BMS inside the module ???

Drewjet, if you get a good shipping quote, would you be interested in adding one module for me ?? I could have my Son pick it up from you. Would pay you before you order, naturally.

[peterperkins]

Well.....I bit the bullet and bought 22 x 7s3p units.

Good effort. How much was shipping to where? Did you get a quantity discount?

Did you pay via paypal or transfer, any extra fees?

[cassschr1]

Does any body know how much tab would be left after removing cell from the 42s3p assembly?

[Karolis]

Hmm. Maybe these packs are from this replacement
http://www.a123systems.com/85bc41fe-036 ... detail.htm

[The Mighty Volt]

There is also a guy in Ireland who uses the online name of "Jack Bauer"- and he has built an EV.

Coincidence? Possibly.

He didn't by any chance convert a green bmw ?

No I think that was the Croatian factor, with Mirco {Cromotor} and those guys.


Jack Bauer converted a BMW but I think it was a 316 Coupe.

[frodus]

no weight or dimension info yet?

Here's the pricing I got:
Price :42.8$ for 1s1p
Price :283.3$ for 7S3P
Price :1600.0$ for 42s3p
Price :1052.3$ for 6S13P
Price :1066.6$ for 28s3p


one 7s3p and a 28s3p would be great for my motorcycle. That'd be 1349.90 for a 35s3p 112V 60Ah 6.7kwh pack (and compatible with my charger, controller and BMS). That's ~$200/kwh, wow.

Just need dimensional information, I won't order them if I can't put to use the modules in my motorcycle.

[deVries]

Well.....I bit the bullet and bought 22 x 7s3p units.

Thank you! for taking "the risk" to buy this many in quantity. 22 units (462 cells) is enough to at least get some idea about DOA or obvious defective units. I suggest sending a spare unit to Doctorbass, if possible, because he will be very happy to evaluate a unit. He is an expert that can give ideas about how to salvage, harvest, & use the cells. (Of course, you might want to open a unit first to see how easy it is to do, but if you have problems Doctorbass is The Battman! )

I would urge no one buy the larger sized modules until Sutho has tested these 7s3p. Why?

1) Because we really don't know yet what the percentage of "bad cells" will be in X number of modules or cells/per module. These modules have 21 cells, so buying a larger module will dramatically increase your odds of getting bad cells.

2) Starting with the smallest size module will at least be easier disassemble to take apart & see what's inside vs larger units.

3) No one knows if the BMS can be hacked & used.

4) No one knows if the cells can be "harvested" & used in some other combination. But if we can harvest the cells, then I have some cheap ideas how to charge & balance these not using a BMS. (This involves more effort & less "safety" than just using a BMS. Doable for bicycle to, perhaps, motorcycle.)

Yes, the news report states FIVE A123 customers were affected by the defect & it will cost 55 million to undo the damage. Of course, a recall is much more expensive than the actual production run, but we can probably guess there is a huge surplus of these modules that will be available for several months to come, imo, IMO.

Good Luck Sutho AND Thank You! again for taking the 1st plunge for ES on these modules. I can't buy any of these modules until May, so I look forward to yours & others results until then.

[flathill]

Someone posted they will NOT do voltage readings on the modules before shipping ?? That concerns me, being they have a BMS inside the module ???

That is pretty ridiculous. How hard is it to stick a multimeter on there? Unless there is a contactor built into the pack so the terminals read open. I would try to find this out.

Also are all the packs water cooled versions? If so the pack might be too heavy/big for ebikes. Perfect for a high power motorbike

Bypassing the BMS shouldn't be too hard but if the BMS is always on the packs could be low after a long boat trip, storage, and the boat trip to your doorstep

How ridiculous we have to buy the packs from China that might now be bricked. Could not A123 just auction them off in the USA with no warranty. F'ing lawyers I'm guessing they were sold to "recyclers"

China ships us finished goods on full ships and we ship them scrap metal, cardboard, and A123 packs on half empty ships

Try to find out the exact weight and dimensions

[Harold in CR]

Here is exactly what I copied from my email.

We dont have detail documents specifications for these A123 modules

Coz these modules were produced by A123 original factory . no 1 processes them..

Now In mainland of china,we no need use the modules,so bargain price to handle

[deVries]

Someone posted they will NOT do voltage readings on the modules before shipping ?? That concerns me, being they have a BMS inside the module ???

That is pretty ridiculous. How hard is it to stick a multimeter on there? Unless there is a contactor built into the pack so the terminals read open. I would try to find this out.

There is such a huge surplus of these modules that the majority should be in good condition vs bricks, IMO. This is a RECENT defect, so it is unlikely these units will be bricks. No one can recycle such expensive bricks, and the cells Doctorbass got were ALL good & meet ALL factory specifications that are advertised. The same company is selling these modules, so it is *LIKELY* these are in good condition in the sense no BMS killed these cells, imo, *IMO*. (IMO )

I have a pretty good idea where these come from too. The bulk of them would be the packs that include the potential "soft short" which could result in failure or capacity loss. But I have seen evidence that shows that some have been removed from Fisker packs.

Can you share a little more info about removing the cells from Fisker packs? That would be interesting to know, as it certainly lends credibility that we can harvest the cells if need be. Thanks!

[circuit]

If anyone gets their hands on these, I would really like to see how they are assembled inside, i.e. how are the cells held in place, how cooled, BMS close-ups, etc.

[The Mighty Volt]

If anyone gets their hands on these, I would really like to see how they are assembled inside, i.e. how are the cells held in place, how cooled, BMS close-ups, etc.

Good idea. Then we can copy it.

[docnjoj]

Um........you guys feel that these are water cooled? I just ordered 14 individual cells from Victpower and will use agniusm's kit to assemble them. It really might pay to hold off until we see the assembly process and if they are welded. That could be a deal breaker, IMHO! Cutting apart spot welds is no fun, especially with those whimpy tabs!
otherDoc

[lukehutch]

I'm a n00b to e-converting motorbikes, but I don't want to miss out on the chance to capitalize on A123's misfortunes. Can somebody please answer a few ultra-basic questions about these?

-- What is the XsYp notation for batteries?
-- If I want to e-convert a Sachs MadAss (small, light scooter-like motorcycle) to have good pickup and a top speed of say 65 MPH while operating well at 35 MPH, roughly what size electric motor will I need (in terms of power output and voltage), and how many of these A123 cells will I need?
-- Can anybody guess how long these batteries will be available at low prices? Will this take the bottom out of the market for the foreseeable future, or should I rush to purchase batteries right now?

Thanks!

[deVries]

I'm a n00b to e-converting motorbikes, but I don't want to miss out on the chance to capitalize on A123's misfortunes. Can somebody please answer a few ultra-basic questions about these?

-- What is the XsYp notation for batteries?

X is the number of cells in S=Series P=Parallel. So, 7s3p is 7 cells x 3.6v per cell gets the voltage of the module in series 7s about 25v. And, 3p is 3 cells in parallel, so 3 x 20Ah/cell rating = 60Ah total capacity. ...the gas tank size so to speak.

-- If I want to e-convert a Sachs MadAss (small, light scooter-like motorcycle) to have good pickup and a top speed of say 65 MPH while operating well at 35 MPH, roughly what size electric motor will I need (in terms of power output and voltage), and how many of these A123 cells will I need?

Sorry, this is Off-Topic for this thread, and I don't know the answer. You'll need to post elsewhere about this.

-- Can anybody guess how long these batteries will be available at low prices? Will this take the bottom out of the market for the foreseeable future, or should I rush to purchase batteries right now?

Since these are being sold as surplus in small quantities, IMO, I think these will be available for a few months to maybe early next year, IMO. These modules will go faster if there are few defects & are easy to use or harvest the individual cells, so be alert about reports of testing these modules in the near future in May next month.

[agniusm]

If anyone gets their hands on these, I would really like to see how they are assembled inside, i.e. how are the cells held in place, how cooled, BMS close-ups, etc.

I would certainly want that info myself Main interest is about BMS on these packs. How one would go about connecting these modules S and P configuration, bulk charge them. Would be pretty good for automotive use, lighter and cheaper than CALB or TS +tons of current. 3P of these 1.2k amps on 60AH battery, not bad at all

[davec]

looking forward to seeing sutho's review
the loose cells from vict are trash
but cells coming in a pack in a legitimate a123 modules could be interesting....maybe their ripping them out of used sources but at least your getting a legitimate product...i dont think anyone will take the time and effort to assemble large modules with poor cells..unless these mods are dumps from that bad batch.. deveries hit the nail on the head... we need to waite out the review and see pics and voltages...