Group Buy? Dr.Bass Steveo found 7s3p Module! Awesome Price!!

[oatnet]

Note how the A123 BMS pcb had been butchered on the pcb marked DEMO. Pins cut off from white socket and black interface socket removed.

Glad to see more 28s3p arriving in good shape, I also noticed how that the back side of that board is completely different from mine, which uses surface mount devices instead:
Mine


Yours


-JD

[cwah]

My three A123 28S3P modules have safely arrived at my address in the UK.

The packing is the fairly horrible but reasonably well fitted wooden crates with a few bits of foam.
Mine seemed to have survived the trip well. A few aluminium fins are dented but nothing structural or broken. Probably old damage.
Only slight bowing on one module, fixed by flipping onto it's side.
All showing around 93V and no sign of any dead groups.
Will capacity test in due course.

Also made it through customs unmolested

Total cost to me $4531 or £2822 or £940 each. ~£12 per cell. I paid via bank transfer.

Two in series will make a very nice 60ah pack for my original phev insight or a stiff test pack for my EV conversion.

So I have a spare pack for someones high powered recumbent project/rickshaw in the UK.
Buyer collects £1000 cash. Perhaps I should have bought 4

One pic FYI

Did you pay taxes when you shipped it to UK? if so, how much did you pay?

[MN Driver]

Note how the A123 BMS pcb had been butchered on the pcb marked DEMO. Pins cut off from white socket and black interface socket removed.

Glad to see more 28s3p arriving in good shape, I also noticed how that the back side of that board is completely different from mine, which uses surface mount devices instead:
Mine
Image removed

Yours
Image removed

-JD

The Yours picture is peterperkins BMS that he created(really good one with tons of features including a visual display and even a wireless transmitter to see charging process from inside the house), he isn't showing the one that the modules came with. If you look closely you can see his web address and other text printed on the top of his BMS. He was posting it for comparison and to indicate that it coincidentally fits the modules.

[oatnet]

The Yours picture is peterperkins BMS that he created...

I see that now, thanks!

-JD

[zaxxon]

As we understand now, Victpower knowingly shipped obviously defective modules and appear to be using the high return shipping cost as their protection. Before you buy a module, you should also understand, they require you to return the defective module at your cost, and also require you to pay cost to ship the replacement unit.

What you are suggesting has now changed. Someone posted an email in this thread recently stating they no longer provide any guarantee or returns for these modules.

In other words, 7s3p are now sold "As Is".

Sorry you are correct nothing new. I was so worked up over their final offer last night, I had forgotten they changed the terms from when I ordered.

In my case Xin wrote me before the sale that they would replace defective module if bad. When I said I wanted to return the bad module for replacement. Xin told me her Company did not want me to send back module because of concerns around shipping, custom, and clearance fees. So I said if I can’t return for replacement then only options where to return money or send a replacement. Xin agreed to send replacement unit if I paid full shipping costs. I agreed and she sent invoice, I sent money. Next day Xin, said she misunderstood her superior and now I must also send bad module back to get replacement. AND I would alsol have to pay shipment on return unit.

My cost to ship back in a reasonable time would be $885. The total costs for replacing module would be $2,804 ($1060 item + $450 original shipping + $885 shipping cost to return + $439 replacement shipping). Victpower would not work with me. Their final offer was to sell me another module at 10% off original price and I still pay shipment.

[deVries]

In my case Xin wrote me before the sale that they would replace defective module if bad. When I said I wanted to return the bad module for replacement. Xin told me her Company did not want me to send back module because of concerns around shipping, custom, and clearance fees. So I said if I can’t return for replacement then only options where to return money or send a replacement. Xin agreed to send replacement unit if I paid full shipping costs. I agreed and she sent invoice, I sent money. Next day Xin, said she misunderstood her superior and now I must also send bad module back to get replacement. AND I would alsol have to pay shipment on return unit.

My cost to ship back in a reasonable time would be $885. The total costs for replacing module would be $2,804 ($1060 item + $450 original shipping + $885 shipping cost to return + $439 replacement shipping). Victpower would not work with me. Their final offer was to sell me another module at 10% off original price and I still pay shipment.

I wish we had someone that had real connections with this company, or was on the ground where they are located, so we could maybe resolve this sheeit from ever happening. Until then, I hoping someone will invest the time with a defective module to do a cell repair & document it here in this thread. Please search on dremel in this thread if you want to read my ideas about how to do this.

Speaking of cell repairs, that reminds me, would you have any interest in doing a cell repair for us?

[Sutho]

Sorry you are correct nothing new. I was so worked up over their final offer last night, I had forgotten they changed the terms from when I ordered.

In my case Xin wrote me before the sale that they would replace defective module if bad. When I said I wanted to return the bad module for replacement. Xin told me her Company did not want me to send back module because of concerns around shipping, custom, and clearance fees. So I said if I can’t return for replacement then only options where to return money or send a replacement. Xin agreed to send replacement unit if I paid full shipping costs. I agreed and she sent invoice, I sent money. Next day Xin, said she misunderstood her superior and now I must also send bad module back to get replacement. AND I would alsol have to pay shipment on return unit.

My cost to ship back in a reasonable time would be $885. The total costs for replacing module would be $2,804 ($1060 item + $450 original shipping + $885 shipping cost to return + $439 replacement shipping). Victpower would not work with me. Their final offer was to sell me another module at 10% off original price and I still pay shipment.

Going through the same f'n sh!t with Xin and Co. I am now at the point where I am keeping the bad units and buying 10 replacement units at a slightly lower price than before. They won't do anything until I cancel the PayPal claim, blah, blah, blah....and on it goes.

I will use the bad units I retain for experimentation on methods to disassemble or repair these types of modules.

On the bright side.....I almost have the 12 module bank assembled ready for testing.

[bigmoose]

Have you guys thought about keeping the transactions separate, and going forward with the paypal claim. Then purchasing your make up modules through a friend/mate/relative as a separate transaction? That way this sketchy vendor bears some responsibility for it's actions.

[peterperkins]

The A123 pcb white BMS connector is

JST part number

S22B-AIT2G-2FS

https://www.jst.co.uk/productSeries.php?pid=15175

I have requested 6 samples which is enough to make six test BMS boards for my A123 packs.

Strangely the datasheet says it's only rated at 14V

[Ypedal]

I just went ahead and orderd 10 hobby king packs..

[deVries]

I just went ahead and orderd 10 hobby king packs..

Dude, why didn't you just buy the A123 cells & do a build thread. You know you want to.

Sutho, now that you decided to keep those defective modules we look forward to a cell repair & disassembling the 7s module, etc. Hey, take your time, though I'm sure some folks here just cringed in extreme patience.

[oatnet]

The A123 pcb white BMS connector is

JST part number

S22B-AIT2G-2FS

https://www.jst.co.uk/productSeries.php?pid=15175

I have requested 6 samples which is enough to make six test BMS boards for my A123 packs.

Strangely the datasheet says it's only rated at 14V

Thanks Peter, you helped me by finding these, I'm gonna get some. This are for the 28s packs, right?

I usually worry about amps going through the connectors, not volts... each pin should see 3.65v (or 7.3v if you are counting both cells using each pin) so wouldn't that be under the 14v rating?



-JD

[miro13car]

Zaxxon
Are they for real
Victpower accepted your money and changed rules right after that?
Disguisting I must say

[zaxxon]

In my case Xin wrote me before the sale that they would replace defective module if bad. When I said I wanted to return the bad module for replacement. Xin told me her Company did not want me to send back module because of concerns around shipping, custom, and clearance fees. So I said if I can’t return for replacement then only options where to return money or send a replacement. Xin agreed to send replacement unit if I paid full shipping costs. I agreed and she sent invoice, I sent money. Next day Xin, said she misunderstood her superior and now I must also send bad module back to get replacement. AND I would alsol have to pay shipment on return unit.

My cost to ship back in a reasonable time would be $885. The total costs for replacing module would be $2,804 ($1060 item + $450 original shipping + $885 shipping cost to return + $439 replacement shipping). Victpower would not work with me. Their final offer was to sell me another module at 10% off original price and I still pay shipment.

I wish we had someone that had real connections with this company, or was on the ground where they are located, so we could maybe resolve this sheeit from ever happening. Until then, I hoping someone will invest the time with a defective module to do a cell repair & document it here in this thread. Please search on dremel in this thread if you want to read my ideas about how to do this.

Speaking of cell repairs, that reminds me, would you have any interest in doing a cell repair for us?

If I can’t get the Mini to run reasonably well on two packs for trips to work (if other two packs are any good), I will likely try to salvage the bad pack if enough cells take and hold any charge. All the cells except the shorted one were down around 0.6 volts Right now I can only attempt to bypass bad banks rather than attempt a cell replacements because I don’t own any replacement cells. And now my EV battery fund allocation has been more than depleted.

[zaxxon]

Sorry you are correct nothing new. I was so worked up over their final offer last night, I had forgotten they changed the terms from when I ordered.

In my case Xin wrote me before the sale that they would replace defective module if bad. When I said I wanted to return the bad module for replacement. Xin told me her Company did not want me to send back module because of concerns around shipping, custom, and clearance fees. So I said if I can’t return for replacement then only options where to return money or send a replacement. Xin agreed to send replacement unit if I paid full shipping costs. I agreed and she sent invoice, I sent money. Next day Xin, said she misunderstood her superior and now I must also send bad module back to get replacement. AND I would alsol have to pay shipment on return unit.

My cost to ship back in a reasonable time would be $885. The total costs for replacing module would be $2,804 ($1060 item + $450 original shipping + $885 shipping cost to return + $439 replacement shipping). Victpower would not work with me. Their final offer was to sell me another module at 10% off original price and I still pay shipment.

Going through the same f'n sh!t with Xin and Co. I am now at the point where I am keeping the bad units and buying 10 replacement units at a slightly lower price than before. They won't do anything until I cancel the PayPal claim, blah, blah, blah....and on it goes.

I will use the bad units I retain for experimentation on methods to disassemble or repair these types of modules.

On the bright side.....I almost have the 12 module bank assembled ready for testing.

Based on prior experience on a Prius pack, Paypal will require you to send back the modules. If you are willing to send back on slow boat at a lower cost, and wait to get additional module or through other methods as was just suggested, I would NOT drop dispute and continue to keep Paypal on to help to get replacement modules or your material costs back. I wish now I had used Paypal instead of T/T payment. Without Paypal, once you drop the dispute Xin may come back and say, Sorry my superior says I can’t sell modules to you at that price now, or modules are no longer available (to you).

[zaxxon]

Zaxxon
Are they for real
Victpower accepted your money and changed rules right after that?
Disguisting I must say

Yes, I have the Proforma Invioce to prove it and the bank T/T payment.

[SlyCayer]

or modules are no longer available (to you).

Yep! Do not drop the dispute in my opinion...

[zaxxon]

My three A123 28S3P modules have safely arrived at my address in the UK.

The packing is the fairly horrible but reasonably well fitted wooden crates with a few bits of foam.
Mine seemed to have survived the trip well. A few aluminium fins are dented but nothing structural or broken. Probably old damage.
Only slight bowing on one module, fixed by flipping onto it's side.
All showing around 93V and no sign of any dead groups.
Will capacity test in due course.

Also made it through customs unmolested

Total cost to me $4531 or £2822 or £940 each. ~£12 per cell. I paid via bank transfer.

Two in series will make a very nice 60ah pack for my original phev insight or a stiff test pack for my EV conversion.

So I have a spare pack for someones high powered recumbent project/rickshaw in the UK.
Buyer collects £1000 cash. Perhaps I should have bought 4

One pic FYI

Given your modules look square and nice. Did yours come with wood feet added in middle and a thicker bottom board as I suggested to Xin they needed to do? If yes, I am glad someone benefited from my input.

Attached pictures shows the fine care and quality of packaging Victpower used on my modules that resulted in very warped module and bent fins.


The other pictures show what happens when one of the cell shorts. Shorted in this case, from some impact damage before item was shipped. Rusty screw indicates this was damaged some time ago. Damage had to be obvious to Victpower. Yet they shipped it to me. This is the bad module VictPower would not reasonably compensate me for.

You can see fins and bus discolorization and paint bubbling from the heat caused by others cells dumping into the shorted cell. This high heat and the possibility of ignition of adjacent materials is probably why A123 is replacing modules.

[peterperkins]

Thanks Peter, you helped me by finding these, I'm gonna get some. This are for the 28s packs, right?
-JD

They are fitted on my 28S packs. Note there is a BMS board at each end of the pack and each pcb serves 14 cells.
I suspect the connector is the same type on each different size (smaller) module but just uses less pins.
Or is a smaller number of pins connector from the same range.
The 42S pack may use three BMS boards 14 x 3?

As for the packing it was minimal and basically a close fitting wooden box with a few odd bits of foam.
It didn't have any feet on the wooden case so it didn't matter which way it was up, which was probably better as it least it laid flat in any orientation.

[Sutho]

First 12 modules assembled as a pack giving just under 280V 60Ah.

When I manage to obtain or salvage another 6 modules, they will connect in with these to provide 420V 60Ah.

[peterperkins]

A123 BMS Testing

I plugged one of my packs into my CC/CV 2A charger today and topped it up.

I have found the A123 BMS is active and it has started to bleed off current. I'll check the load switch on voltages etc as we go.
The pack must have been full when it arrived. It also means if your packs are very low you should probably disconnect the bms parasitic load.

The load for each channel is made up of 8 x 91R (910) marked smd resistors in parallel = 11.375R effective resistance.
At 3.65v that gives a balancing current of ~320ma at 1.1w which seems reasonable.

The BMS pcb has two active leds I can see. I will watch to see when they go on and off.
They are on at the moment but the cells had reached ~3.90v and the pcb is now quite hot as it is disipating ~15w from the 14 channels.
All the channels/cell groups seemed very well in balance in this first pack.

I'll try and identify the other black BMS connector as it may be possible is is now also active and sending data or warnings.

At a pinch it might be possible to use the led/s to drive an external circuit by connecting directly to the pcb or by hot gluing an opto transistor on top of it

Edit. The leds on the bms pcb have turned off and the bleeding of current has stopped now cell groups are below 3.85v.

[texaspyro]

When I manage to obtain or salvage another 6 modules, they will connect in with these to provide 420V 60Ah.

That should make for a SWEEEEET big red wire to black wire test... We eagerly await the video...

[oatnet]

Thanks Peter, you helped me by finding these, I'm gonna get some. This are for the 28s packs, right?
-JD

They are fitted on my 28S packs. Note there is a BMS board at each end of the pack and each pcb serves 14 cells.
It also means if your packs are very low you should probably disconnect the bms parasitic load.

You must have missed earlier in this thread, where I documented both of these features in text and pictures.
Did your 28s BMS not have the strong, terrible smell I noticed on mine?
Did you charge your cells all the way up to 3.90v by accident, or are you testing something I haven't thought about?

-JD

[oatnet]

First 12 modules assembled as a pack giving just under 280V 60Ah.

When I manage to obtain or salvage another 6 modules, they will connect in with these to provide 420V 60Ah.

Impressive pack Sutho. I'm suprised you are using the 7s format, instead of the 28s format, since the 28s module weighs 107lb, and 4x7s=28s modules weigh 120lb. Your 420v pack will weigh an extra 52lbs, be 24" longer, and you add the weight and points of failure from (11) additional module-to-module power connections. I'm guessing you had a need to distribute the modules?

-JD

[SlyCayer]

That should make for a SWEEEEET big red wire to black wire test... We eagerly await the video...

Addicted to fireworks?