LiFeBatt Battery Woes II

[mindenas]

Hello,
first of all sorry for my poor English. I live in Europe and decided to buy the batteries from the way I seemed to be a reliable American company Lifebatt.
I want to share with you my experience of Lifebatt batteries and communication with them.
On 2011 March I bought from Lifbatt the battery 24V 20AH LIFEPO. Because my e-bike was under construction for several months, I have started to use the battery just at the end of season and used also charged this Battery only 8-9 times. On the winter months the battery was always charged (measured every 2-3 weeks the voltage) and kept dry and warm. Before the first drive on 2012 April, I have measured the voltage and the current from Battery kit was only 4V. Week ago it was ok, battery showed 24V and now the battery does not want to be loaded. I opened the battery case and measured the voltage of each cell. All cells showed approximately 3.3 V. Two cells were dead. According to the exterior appearance of this two cells differed from the others. They were white and over with stickers with numbers (see pictures). I do not want to believe, but I think that these two cells were removed from the old Battery packages, and added to my order. So now I have a problem and I can not use the Battery 20AH. I checked BMS, its ok. I checked the charger, its ok. Two cells were old and their lifecycle was ended. I tried to charge these not working cells separate, but cells shows no reaction to the charger. These two cells are completely not functioning.
I make proposal to Lifebatt “If you feel your responsibility, would you change me these two cells. In this case, I would buy an additional one of your 3.3 10Ah cell.” The answer from Michelle Robinson was “If you have 3.65V charger, you can charge the cells individually and bring them back, you must have left battery without charge for more then 6 mouth, the correct way with any battery, you have to charge battery every month, same reason you start the car every month even when not driving.”… wtf?... I know very well about how to keep battery when they are not in use for longer time (for ex. winter), dry and always charged. These two cells show no reaction to the charger. Repeatedly I connected to Michelle Robinson and the answer was “ok, will do.”… What, when???
So, I have changed the connection scheme from 8S-2P to 8S-1P and now I’m running on 24V 10AH battery but I have paid for 20AH. 6 cells are useless, 2 are dead.
So be careful or don't do business with LiFeBatt because they don't have any service and product quality.

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[lester12483]

Sorry to hear that.

[Jeremy Harris]

I regret to say that I'm not surprised. The cells are usually very good, but LifeBatt as a company seems to be a bit variable, in particular the chap that owns it/set it up, Don Harmon, has gained a reputation here for being somewhat of a nuisance (in fact I think he was, at one time, banned from here).

Michelle Robinson also has a bit of a hard reputation, I gather, so I doubt that they will provide you with the new cells you need. It seems very likely, looking at your photos, that they fitted two cells from a different batch, perhaps even of a different standard, to your pack and it is those cells that have failed. It would seem to me that the problem was almost certainly faulty cells, and these are now causing the BMS in the pack to trip out.

Jozzer may know where you can get two new cells in Europe, as he used LifeBatt cells and I believe knows more about the company and their products. LifeBatt also had a UK agent, a chap called Ian someone, who might be able to help, assuming he's still selling LifeBatt.

Jeremy

[Ypedal]

http://www.lifebatt.com/P-20Ah%20Specs.pdf
11. Storage for a long time
1.If the battery will be stored for a long time (longer than 1 months), it is better to preserve the battery at the environment of low humidity and low temperature.
2.Use within 3 months ( 90days ) after shipping

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in fact I think he was, at one time, banned from here).

correct, and it will remain that way.
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Basicallyl, if fully charged, with BMS connected, the pack should be able to remain idle for 6+ months EASILY, if it drains 20ah cells within 6 months the BMS is in serious need of re-design.

claim to fame was the multi year warranty, if you got this in 2011.... well.. nuff said.

[dnmun]

what is the voltage on the dead cells? if you have a cell phone charger then try to push charge into those cells and see if you can at least charge them up. then watch to see how fast the voltage drops if you can get it back up to 3.6V.

if they won't charge, then see if you can use the other 6 cells that are now unused and create a 14S pack, or a 12S pack with 12 of them and save 2 for spares. then use a 12S BMS from another source like li ping and get a 36V charger so you would have a 36V10Ah pack. but jozzer or ian may have some of those cells left in stock. ask miro how to talk sweetly to michelle so she helps out. you can buy essentially identical cells from china off alibaba too.

[Jeremy Harris]

what is the voltage on the dead cells? if you have a cell phone charger then try to push charge into those cells and see if you can at least charge them up. then watch to see how fast the voltage drops if you can get it back up to 3.6V.

if they won't charge, then see if you can use the other 6 cells that are now unused and create a 14S pack, or a 12S pack with 12 of them and save 2 for spares. then use a 12S BMS from another source like li ping and get a 36V charger so you would have a 36V10Ah pack. but jozzer or ian may have some of those cells left in stock. ask miro how to talk sweetly to michelle so she helps out. you can buy essentially identical cells from china off alibaba too.

In the original post he says: "I tried to charge these not working cells separate, but cells shows no reaction to the charger. These two cells are completely not functioning." so it sounds like they are dead. Apparently Michelle advised him to do this, as the OP also says: "The answer from Michelle Robinson was “If you have 3.65V charger, you can charge the cells individually and bring them back".

Having tried this I'd suggest the two cells really are dead.

[peterperkins]

Ian Goodman is the UK Lifebatt rep.

ian@lifebatt.co.uk

When the cells are at zero volts they are dead trust me. I have a few here.

[dnmun]

i did not read where he said they were zero volts, i thought he said dead. but at least it is good to know someone is always reading whatever i write and willing to take the time to correct me.

[Lessss]

Why make it 36V? Just make it 24V10 ah and you can use the same bms if it still works.

[mindenas]

Thanks you all for your answers and suggestions. Yes, i have measured with multimeter these two cells, it shows 0.00V.

[999zip999]

Sorry I hope you can find two cells easily and fix it to 20ah. Good luck.

[JRP3]

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Basicallyl, if fully charged, with BMS connected, the pack should be able to remain idle for 6+ months EASILY, if it drains 20ah cells within 6 months the BMS is in serious need of re-design.

I pointed that out to Don on another forum when he said his batteries would be drained in a month if not kept charged. Since a BMS is supposed to protect cells one that kills them in a month is not a BMS I'd want.