icharger failures, detail how your icharger failed

Batteries, Chargers, and Battery Management Systems.
dnmun
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icharger failures, detail how your icharger failed

Post by dnmun » Apr 28, 2013 12:20 pm

i had repaired greg's icharger by replacing the shunt that burned up. but it appears that the mosfets that connect the shunt to the battery are also shorted and the icharger is now like a dead short on the battery when plugged in.

i saw there were several utube videos and many comments from people who had similar problems so i wanted to form a thread that would document the failure modes for the icharger.

please don't use the thread to yak about how you don't use this or that, or how your hyperion or other type charger doesn't work.

this is for people who have an icharger, they used it and then it failed. i want to document the failure modes by opening them up to look for the components that have failed to see if we can find ways to repair them and prevent them from failing again.

hopefully, by the end of the thread there will enuff info that most can diagnose their icharger failure and know how to repair them.

critical info will include how long you used it, did you ever reverse the battery on the terminals, reversed the JXT plug?

what was the charger engaged in doing when it failed. did it fail immediately when the operation began, after a short time, or longer? smoke or no smoke?

display gone or menu dysfunctional?

did the icharger do anything unusual in the period before it failed, and what was that?

did you already attempt a repair and what did you do and why did you do that? did it work and for how long? did something else fail after that?

i already have some ideas, i also kinda understand the layout of the pcb and the parts so i can walk you through the analysis to help you explain what happened to your icharger.

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Re: icharger failures, detail how your icharger failed

Post by circuit » Apr 29, 2013 5:00 am

my iCharger 3010 failed while charging 36V Pb battery. Happened in the middle of charge. Fets failed and shorted the battery. Quite spectacular view. Good thing I was near it when it happened.
Note to self: use fuses.

However my iCharger 208B is working fine for 4 years now. It is a work horse, doing a lot of battery testing at maximum current.
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Re: icharger failures, detail how your icharger failed

Post by dnmun » Apr 29, 2013 10:02 am

so it had reached about 40V when the mosfets shorted? did your shunt burn up too?

i see irfb3205 as the main power mosfets on the one i have here. did you try to swap the mosfets out on the 3010?

were the mosfets spending time in transition on/off when they failed? did you have a scope to look at the voltage spikes on the charging lead coming from the boost converter?

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Re: icharger failures, detail how your icharger failed

Post by circuit » Apr 29, 2013 1:06 pm

Don't know, did not care actually. Packed it all back in original box and got a refund. Spent it elsewhere.
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Re: icharger failures, detail how your icharger failed

Post by GCinDC » Apr 29, 2013 2:03 pm

hey dennis,

i have NEVER been able to discharge or cycle a pack with an iCharger and have killed them every time I've tried.

here's a post I created a year ago when one went: iCharger on the Blink
Youtube channel, 2013 Highlights vid. Ebike Nerdcast.
Giant DH Comp: 20s lipo (11.6Ah), hs3540, Adaptto Mini-E, 900W BMSBattery charger.
GT I-Drive (sold), 20s lipo, 9C, 72V 45A 12FET.

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Re: icharger failures, detail how your icharger failed

Post by dnmun » Apr 29, 2013 6:07 pm

that one looks familiar. it is what i have open here to examine.

when you were discharging the battery was it connected to the power supply or not?

i did convince myself that the icharger i sent back is shorted in those mosfets. i have some 3205s and also some p75fn75 mosfets too.

there is not enuff voltage to break the 3205 so it must be from the channel being partially open while it is discharging. maybe the icharger discharges using pwm and the transition time is eating into the heat budget for the mosfet.

send this last one back and i will put some more mosfets in it. i bet it works then. but you need to use an external shunt to keep the heat out of there i think. just do the internal resistance calculation using two sets of resistors and measuring the voltage drop. that gives you the internal resistance.

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Re: icharger failures, detail how your icharger failed

Post by rojitor » Jul 01, 2013 4:11 am

My icharger 3010b failed this weekend, worked fine for a year, never shorted. It almost charged my 18s lipo pack, i was expecting to hear the alarm but never happened so i checked it out, the display was on but not working. I removed one of the balance leads and measured 4,17 almost done. Tried to start it again but it refuses to work. It makes the attempt but then resets and does not start the charge. The power supply seems to be ok(1080w hk).

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Re: icharger failures, detail how your icharger failed

Post by parabellum » May 15, 2014 10:25 pm

My 3010B went dark when I connected >40V on input (operators error :D ). Power supply is kaput. I do not know which chip it uses since all chips inscriptions are sanded away. I connected 5V directly on brain cap and everything works but no switching is happening if I start charge(so not charging). I suppose I need to supply power apart to fet drivers. If someone got version with readable chip inscriptions, please post pictures. I do not know where to connect external PS for drivers and how many volts. Any help appreciated.

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Re: icharger failures, detail how your icharger failed

Post by Willow » May 15, 2014 10:29 pm

Internal screw came loose inside one of my Hyperions, and shorted the board. Nothing spectacular.... just frocked it.

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Re: icharger failures, detail how your icharger failed

Post by dnmun » May 15, 2014 11:02 pm

parabellum wrote:My 3010B went dark when I connected >40V on input (operators error :D ). Power supply is kaput. I do not know which chip it uses since all chips inscriptions are sanded away. I connected 5V directly on brain cap and everything works but no switching is happening if I start charge(so not charging). I suppose I need to supply power apart to fet drivers. If someone got version with readable chip inscriptions, please post pictures. I do not know where to connect external PS for drivers and how many volts. Any help appreciated.
if you would post up a picture of the part of the pcb, in fact the entire board, then maybe we can help you. i have a ebay reference for the 8 pin regulator but have no idea of what you are talking about or if that is really the problem.

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Re: icharger failures, detail how your icharger failed

Post by parabellum » May 16, 2014 9:36 am

dnmun wrote:
parabellum wrote:My 3010B went dark when I connected >40V on input (operators error :D ). Power supply is kaput. I do not know which chip it uses since all chips inscriptions are sanded away. I connected 5V directly on brain cap and everything works but no switching is happening if I start charge(so not charging). I suppose I need to supply power apart to fet drivers. If someone got version with readable chip inscriptions, please post pictures. I do not know where to connect external PS for drivers and how many volts. Any help appreciated.
if you would post up a picture of the part of the pcb, in fact the entire board, then maybe we can help you. i have a ebay reference for the 8 pin regulator but have no idea of what you are talking about or if that is really the problem.
This picture is not my but from Doctorbass review here https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 38#p358703 and I suppose sanded part in the left is the regulator, I see 5 legs.
Image
If more pictures can be of use I will open up my icarger and make them.

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Re: icharger failures, detail how your icharger failed

Post by dnmun » May 16, 2014 10:04 am

that looks like the 2596 switch mode DC/DC converter but surface mount part. try looking at the data sheet and see if you can follow the traces to where they should be according to the circuit they show on the data sheet. there is a 40V limit on the part and they supposedly make a 60V part called 2596hv so yours could be the 40V part and burned up when it was overvolted.

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Re: icharger failures, detail how your icharger failed

Post by parabellum » May 16, 2014 11:06 am

dnmun wrote:that looks like the 2596 switch mode DC/DC converter but surface mount part. try looking at the data sheet and see if you can follow the traces to where they should be according to the circuit they show on the data sheet. there is a 40V limit on the part and they supposedly make a 60V part called 2596hv so yours could be the 40V part and burned up when it was overvolted.
Thanks dnmun
http://www.onsemi.com/pub_link/Collateral/LM2596-D.PDF datasheet
It is strange, it got only 1 output, regulated. It supplies drivers for sure because it is 3A. Maybe there is more then 5v on the pin 2 output and somewhere else it is regulated from xV to 5V for the brain? Will do follow the traces thing. :)

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Re: icharger failures, detail how your icharger failed

Post by dnmun » May 16, 2014 11:09 am

it could have 5V output but i expect that would be from a 5V three terminal regulator. like lm7805.

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Re: icharger failures, detail how your icharger failed

Post by parabellum » May 16, 2014 11:20 am

How it looks
Image
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Re: icharger failures, detail how your icharger failed

Post by edcastrovalley » May 16, 2014 11:40 am

Two years ago i had an icharger 1000b i think (it charged and balanced 10 cell packs) and i accidentally disconnected the battery pack from the charger and the charger put up a tremendous smoke screen. It took awhile to navigate the garage. It turned out that every mosfet burned up. If it happened today i would try my hand at replacing those mosfets but i sent it back to hobbyking and they gave me full credif toward a new one (a 3010!).

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Re: icharger failures, detail how your icharger failed

Post by parabellum » May 16, 2014 12:17 pm

Which other regulator can it be? Pin out looks not compatible with 2596.
2596 Pins:
1-Vin
2-Vout
3-GND
4-Fedback
5-ON/OFF
I have here:
1-? goes to -R2kOhm-SMD Cap-GND
2- goes over -SMD R 650Ohm to ground/other trace over R1kOhm to +6.3VCap for brain supply
3-GND
4- goes to 1 leg of HF transformer
5-Vin other leg same side of HF transformer

Looks pretty much same but mirrored schematic.

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Re: icharger failures, detail how your icharger failed

Post by parabellum » May 16, 2014 12:38 pm

other side of HF trafo:
1out ~0.7Ohm to ground goes to brain + over diode
2out ~1.3Ohm to ground goes over diode to tantalum 106pF 25Vcap+ i think it is for driver circuit , I suppose there will be ~12V if brain gets 5V

So I suppose now we know how to make it work with 2 external power supplies :D .
Anyway, would be nice to find suitable V regulator. :(

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Re: icharger failures, detail how your icharger failed

Post by dnmun » May 16, 2014 12:47 pm

the 2596 is not a regulator. it is a current controller for the DC/DC converter. there is no other part i know of that would go there but i don't have the pcb in front of me so i really cannot tell.

but if you put more than 40V on it i expect it is dead.

i realize the pictures are not of your charger but it looks like there is a 4700R surface mount on pin #1.

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Re: icharger failures, detail how your icharger failed

Post by parabellum » May 16, 2014 4:47 pm

dnmun wrote:i realize the pictures are not of your charger but it looks like there is a 4700R surface mount on pin #1.
Last picture is mine and yes there is 4720R, I posted resistance value across before (sorry if I created confusion here)

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Re: icharger failures, detail how your icharger failed

Post by dnmun » May 16, 2014 5:09 pm

have you looked for the surface mount part on ebay? i am sure mouser will have them. usually surface mount parts never go to ebay.

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Re: icharger failures, detail how your icharger failed

Post by parabellum » May 16, 2014 5:49 pm

dnmun wrote:have you looked for the surface mount part on ebay? i am sure mouser will have them. usually surface mount parts never go to ebay.
What part should I look for? Pin out is different to LM2596.

It works with 5V on brain and 12V on drivers from external source. :D
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It is PITA anyway
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Re: icharger failures, detail how your icharger failed

Post by dnmun » May 16, 2014 11:32 pm

no, it is a 2596 i am pretty sure from the location and your description of how you overvolted the input. i think you are wrong.

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Re: icharger failures, detail how your icharger failed

Post by parabellum » May 17, 2014 8:53 am

dnmun wrote:no, it is a 2596 i am pretty sure from the location and your description of how you overvolted the input. i think you are wrong.
I have an LM2596 in my hands.
Vin is on pin 1, on icarger chip Vin is on pin 5. It makes me think, those are 2 different chips.

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Re: icharger failures, detail how your icharger failed

Post by dnmun » May 17, 2014 9:56 am

if you have a 2596 then install it and see if the power comes back on.

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