Headway Group Purchase

julesa

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Joined
Jun 23, 2008
Messages
950
Just curious... the last I heard, the Headway 48v20ah packs from the evsolutions.com group purchase were supposed to be delivered a few weeks ago.

Did anyone buy one? Are you happy with it? Can you post pictures/reports/anything?

I want to buy a couple of these direct from Victoria, but I have been waiting for:

A) my pocketbook to shape up a little bit
B) reports from people who participated in the group purchase.
 
you mean evsolutions.net?

evsolutions.com goes to a generic search page



julesa said:
Just curious... the last I heard, the Headway 48v20ah packs from the evsolutions.com group purchase were supposed to be delivered a few weeks ago.

Did anyone buy one? Are you happy with it? Can you post pictures/reports/anything?

I want to buy a couple of these direct from Victoria, but I have been waiting for:

A) my pocketbook to shape up a little bit
B) reports from people who participated in the group purchase.
 
I guess they are in Florida, I have paypaled the usps shipping to get mine but I haven't gotten it yet. Sounds like they had some difficulties with people that ordered cases for their packs that didnt fit. which i could care less about. The group purchase was getting the batterys, thats all that matters.
Anyway, hopefully we will get them in the next couple weeks.
 
ejonesss said:
you mean evsolutions.net?

evsolutions.com goes to a generic search page

Yes, evsolutions.net, though maybe it would be better to just say Joshua Goldberg since I don't think he was using his business' name for the transaction.

velias said:
I guess they are in Florida, I have paypaled the usps shipping to get mine but I haven't gotten it yet. Sounds like they had some difficulties with people that ordered cases for their packs that didnt fit. which i could care less about. The group purchase was getting the batterys, thats all that matters. Anyway, hopefully we will get them in the next couple weeks.

Wow, you still don't have them? Sorry to hear that. Around New Year's I heard the shipment was finally due to arrive on January 16th so I just figured you guys would all have them by now.
 
I've been waiting to hear how the new blue Headways fare in use. Started following their forum back in Oct when they were looking at a Holloween delivery! Some of those guys must be pissed.
 
Victoria, western customers expect western levels of customer service not excuses and lack of support. Chinese suppliers have a poor reputation of customer service for a reason.

Exactly which dimensions did Headway use for the pack sizes?

If the group buy ordered 45 batteries and 45 cases what did Headway expect? I read that Headway shipped cases that fit the tab welded cells but the order was for the threaded top cell packs! Someone at Headway should be responsible and clarified the situation, and shipped them as complete packs.


Don't just log in here and say it's not Headways fault, because it sounds like part of it is.
I wasn't part of the group purchase but if Headway doesn't act responsibly I feel a lot of future customers will look else where for batteries, including myself.
 
it's not fair to attack victoria over this. she is being totally straight with you about how the deal went down. the problem with it being slow is just because it got stalled getting into port, and now the cases are different from what people expected and rob is trying to get everything reboxed and shipped outa florida. you can go follow it on the lifepo4-grouppurchase yahoo group. most everybody is not happy it took so long, and in the end the shipping costs were not so much less that it made anyone think it was worhwhile. the problem with cases was unexpected, but may end up not being a problem, just a little more expense, but shit happens.
when you do stuff different, you gonna always have problems, imo.
 
Well

When I ordered the battery packs with cases I assumed Headway would have installed the batteries into the cases. Seemed like a reasonable expectation but apparently not since 45 Cases arrived missing the battery packs.

So you figure well no problem we'll just install the battery packs into the 45 cases but then we discovered the battery packs do not fit the 45 cases which then makes you wonder why would Headway send 45 Cases that do not fit the battery packs?

Have no idea what Headway was thinking to send the 45 empty cases unless they thought we wanted to use them as Lunch Boxes.

The sea freight shipping would have likely been lower if the 45 Cases remained in China.

Still have to order the packs for the Canadian side but would really like to see how well the Lifepo4 work for the Americans b4 doing that order. Hoping that the boo boos that happened with the American order are not repeated for the Canadian order.

As Don Harmon pointed out we should expect at least one good Boo Boo on the first order and if that Boo Boo is limited to just the plastic Cases I'll be happy, well not happy in the Whoopee sense but I'd rather it is 45 unusable cases over 45 fried BMS boards or 45 Chargers that burst into flames anyday.

As for the Delays getting the Boat to Florida. Well it took 6 months and it was liking Herding 45 Cats re: trying to get 45 people to submit a payment to Paypal and then no less than 26 order changes over 6 weeks and another 15 order changes for the 2nd payment. A lot of people had never used Paypal and had to be walked through that sandbox. Also had a few people drop out, quite a few people did not have their payment ready and so I delayed sending in the payment to Victoria so those people would not be excluded.

Victoria was quite professional through most of this but I think I was driving her up the wall with all the order changes.
 
Joshua Goldberg said:
Well

well not happy in the Whoopee sense but I'd rather it is 45 unusable cases over 45 fried BMS boards or 45 Chargers that burst into flames anyday.

+1

I've watched group purchases before but this was the first one I've partaken in. It hasn't been easy but I can only imagine the frustration that Joshua has felt. I wouldn't want to exchange places with him. All I've had was hearsay to go on but the case issue is a strange one. If Headway was expecting case dimensions and didn't receive any why not bring up the subject and ask? For any business to arbitrarily send whatever they feel, is negligent in my opinion. I remain optimistic on the quality and service life of the batteries and BMS. Given a little time we'll all know whether Headway is a viable option for our needs.
 
Hey Bill

Ponder this.

Why would Headway need to know the dimensions of the Cases when it was the dimensions of their own battery packs that would dictate the Case dimensions----Duh
 
Joshua Goldberg said:
Hey Bill

Ponder this.

Why would Headway need to know the dimensions of the Cases when it was the dimensions of their own battery packs that would dictate the Case dimensions----Duh

I was thinking the same thing after I posted and had considered going back to do an edit. In the end I decided not to, as I felt saying to arbitrarily send whatever they feel covered it also. However I'm glad you emphasized the issue. I'm optimistic that in the end things will work out and that the Canadian order will go even smoother.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

Here are some random thoughts I have. Although posed as questions, they're just something to think about and ponder.

What will Headway's final position be, will the company be concerned enough to work together and overcome the error of case sizes? or will they continue to stand by with excuses and denying any culpability? If Headway is unwilling to make any concessions on an order of 45 battery packs and cases, how would they treat a customer who orders a single pack?

"What we've got here is a failure to communicate"
Cool Hand Luke - 1967

edited 2-22-09 for misquoting a quote. :D
 
I believe Rob is going to see Victoria about this and a few other issues. Guess it will come down to whether Headway wants to become a leader in the industry or fade into obscurity.

Rob and I were looking for a Lifepo4 manufacturer to back after our run at A123 last year went south and Headway looked pretty good.

We need a manufacturer capable of producing cells for use in cars and alternative energy storage on one side and cells that are good for e-bikes on the other side and that really narrows down the Herd.
 
i just felt it was unfair to attack her. it is more than puzzling that they would send the wrong cases, whether they were not meant for the screw tops or just wrong. i have no skin in this game so i should shut up, but if the screw tops are just a little longer because of the screw top, there may be a way to make them fit yet, but i agree they shoulda known what the cases were for and even installed the packs in the cases.
 
dnum, I made a point of blaming Headway the comapny as I was trying to not attack Victoria personally.

I'm also not in the group, so will leave it at "Good Luck" to the vendors and customers, here's hoping it all works out win-win.
 
One of the group purchaser, Eric has a web page with some photos. I haven't taken any of mine yet. His photos are better than what I 'd have right now as he has fully unwrapped a pack to look inside the paper and tape packaging. Since the photos aren't mine I'm going to just post the link to his sight.

http://www.alysion.org/lifepo4/
 
mi7d1 said:
One of the group purchaser, Eric has a web page with some photos. I haven't taken any of mine yet. His photos are better than what I 'd have right now as he has fully unwrapped a pack to look inside the paper and tape packaging. Since the photos aren't mine I'm going to just post the link to his sight.

http://www.alysion.org/lifepo4/


Thanks for that link. I must say, that I'm not at all impressed with the packaging of these packs. Construction paper, cellophane tape just haphazardly slapped on, random bits of what look like torn pieces of shoe-box cardboard, with the BMS either glued or sticky-taped onto one piece (could it actually be bubble-gum?): None of these is what I would want in any battery pack I was throwing money at.

Definitely NOT something that will build confidence in future buyers.........
 
michaelplogue said:
mi7d1 said:
One of the group purchaser, Eric has a web page with some photos. I haven't taken any of mine yet. His photos are better than what I 'd have right now as he has fully unwrapped a pack to look inside the paper and tape packaging. Since the photos aren't mine I'm going to just post the link to his sight.

http://www.alysion.org/lifepo4/


Thanks for that link. I must say, that I'm not at all impressed with the packaging of these packs. Construction paper, cellophane tape just haphazardly slapped on, random bits of what look like torn pieces of shoe-box cardboard, with the BMS either glued or sticky-taped onto one piece (could it actually be bubble-gum?): None of these is what I would want in any battery pack I was throwing money at.

Definitely NOT something that will build confidence in future buyers.........

I too am disappointed in the packaging but the cells were ordered with a case. As we know now there was a problem with the case sizes. From what I've read the packs don't fit inside the cases. Rather frustrating but I'm confidant that this problem will be solved. It would not reflect well on Headway if the company didn't work towards mutual satisfaction on an order of 45 battery packs. As for the paper and tape, well the packs had to be secured in some manor since they didn't fit the cases. At the moment I'm just happy to have received my two 36V 20Ah packs. I've read some good reports about the quality of the cells and am looking forward to using them.
 
I think this is the typical problem of.. "it's not my job" that many companies encounter.
When employees are badly paid or have no stake in the company then they work to their job descriptions and only their job descriptions.

If it isn't their job to ensure the finished product is 100% functional but just to insert battery cluster into the case, then that is all they do. If they notice that the wires of the battery cluster aren't connected to the charge port of the case they say to themselves "it's not my job" to hook that up and assume someone else is paid to do that.

I think this is what is happening here. Someone took the orders for batteries cases and chargers. The battery guys assembled the packs, the case people supplied the cases, the charger people assembled the chargers. Nobody however was making sure the batteries fit the cases and the chargers work.

For instance are these chargers reverse polarity protected? Will the chargers handle power spikes from your household power or do they have fragile fuses that will blow with even a minor power spike? I've seen some really bad SLA chargers with non replaceable 3.5A fuses, instead of accessible replaceable fuses and proper surge suppression.

Headway needs to realize that North Americans are used to fully tested, fully integrated products. If Headway can only provide battery packs of a certain dimension for the cases they handle they need to be up front with that. If they can provide customized packs but they will be without cases or charger conenctions they need to be up front with that.

North Americans pretty much assume that if they order a battery pack it will be ....
1)in a protective waterproof case
2) that has minimal impact protection and
3) that the chargers will be built for that pack to ensure it
3a) can't damage the pack in hook-up
3b) or overcharging.
Especially when that battery pack costs 2-3 times as much as a commonly available SLA pack.

In my mind every order needs to have a protective case, a usable charger, proper safety precautions for over discharge, over charge, reverse polarity connection detection/prevention, and ideally bad cell identification.
 
Lessss said:
North Americans pretty much assume that if they order a battery pack it will be ....
1)in a protective waterproof case
2) that has minimal impact protection and
3) that the chargers will be built for that pack to ensure it
3a) can't damage the pack in hook-up
3b) or overcharging.


4) doesn't use combustible materials such as paper and cardboard.....
5) at the very least, LOOKS like it was assembled by someone who knew what he/she was doing
6) the 'cpmpany' gave a rats-ass about what sort of image they would like to present itself as

I'm not an electrical engineer, nor a potential company looking to sub-contract an item that I'm working on putting out on the market. However, I am a consummate consumer. And I can tell you straight off, there there wouldn't be a snowball's chance in hell I would invest in a product that came out of the box looking like this.

Functionally, the pack may work perfectly fine. But it looks like you scrounged around late at night in the alleys behind sleazy restaurants searching for discarded boxes - complete with oil stains from yesterdays deep-fat-fried sea food menu.

When I see this pack, I don't think of a brightly-lit, 'clean room' filled with efficient and professional individuals wearing hair-nets and dressed in pristine lab coats with the company logo proudly embossed on the back. No, I see a smoke-filled room in the basement of an abandoned warehouse filled with decrepit old men wearing stained tank tops with unfiltered Camel cigarettes hanging from their mouths.

I don't now about you, Headway. But I would be completely mortified if a product that I was responsible for came out looking like this....


.
 
As Expected

People who were NOT involved in the Group Purchase are hard at work here slagging off Headway.

Why not identify yourself as a Non-Member of the Purchase Group or is that beyond your mental capabilities?

IF the best you can do is Slag off a product because it does not arrive in a pretty package you have issues that need to be dealt with (don't Breed).
 
That is correct Mr. Goldberg. I am slagging Headway. Because - Mr. Goldberg - I was a potential customer, and it was only due to a steak of unexpectedly good luck that I did not throw in on this 'deal.'

So, if you yourself are someone who is a "Member' of the purchase group, and are in fact pleased with being given a poorly assembled - if not dangerously unsafe - product, then all the power to you.

However, shluffing off potentially un-safe products on an unsuspecting consumer is criminal - figuratively and literally. So yes, I will 'slag' - as you so colorfully put it - this alleged 'company.' Because time-and-time again, piss-poor products on the market make the entire industry look bad.

.
 
You're an Idiot when you underline and use Bold lettering to suggest a Lifepo4 battery pack which you have never seen, have no experience with is unsafe. As for for you being Lucky to have missed a Wholesale Purchase---> well what can one say about that but you don't sound really Lucky to me.
 
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