Conversion Vectrix VX1 with tesla modules

Batteries, Chargers, and Battery Management Systems.
Post Reply
User avatar
jimwebo
10 W
10 W
Posts: 80
Joined: Mar 17, 2014 6:39 pm
Location: Asturias-North of Spain

Conversion Vectrix VX1 with tesla modules

Post by jimwebo » Jun 13, 2017 2:03 am

Hello
I bought a few months ago a VX1 with 1700km and a nickel battery that gave me an autonomy of about 50 / 60km.
Although not bad for a 2008 bike, I needed more.
So I decided to put three modified Tesla modules to 12S to get a 36S37P configuration.
I hope you enjoy the post.

These are the modules received from Netherlands.
Image

The modules arrive in 6S74P configuration.
So you have to change them to 12S37P.
I have to thank Comrade Boekel who helped me with the route of cutting the modules.
Image


Image


Image


Image


Image


Image







After the modification you have to make a bridge.
In my case I chose to weld a 0.30mm copper plate, because the hole is so fair that the screws would take away space.
Image

For soldering in aluminum I used a flux:
http://www.ebay.es/itm/282392947581?_tr ... EBIDX%3AIT
And a good 350w welder.
Image

The heat was not a problem for the battery, the welding is fast and the separation between the sheet and the cells is sufficient.

Once modified and with an insulation of 1mm of fiberglass epoxy are left at 75.5mm, that is 4mm of margin to enter the warehouse.
Image

Image

Image

Image


Image

At the moment I go without bms and with esd charger.
The stability of the cells is so great that I only need to monitor them with a cell log.
Http://neptronix.org/forumpics/evassemble2months.jpg

Soon I will install some power supplies to charge about 6kw

Now the autonomy is between 180 / 250km depending on the speed.
Worry about the amount of energy available to go missing and is more fun.
Also the battery weight is 15 kg less than the original nickel battery.
I hope you like it and I'll be happy to answer your questions.
A greeting.

Jim.
Electric life.

cwah
10 GW
10 GW
Posts: 4461
Joined: Jul 24, 2011 5:42 am
Location: Between paris and london

Re: Conversion Vectrix VX1 with tesla modules

Post by cwah » Jun 13, 2017 2:36 am

Amazing!!
Conversion cost?

No bms?
Help me find my stolen electric brompton: http://bit.ly/1a0vbBC and Bosch Sinus B3 http://bit.ly/1eV0WQz

User avatar
jonescg
1 GW
1 GW
Posts: 3335
Joined: Aug 07, 2009 9:22 pm
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Re: Conversion Vectrix VX1 with tesla modules

Post by jonescg » Jun 13, 2017 3:42 am

That wasn't aluminium you were soldering to, it's nickel. Aluminium won't take tin based solder. Very clever approach by the way!

cheapcookie
10 W
10 W
Posts: 75
Joined: Aug 02, 2014 10:34 pm
Location: france

Re: Conversion Vectrix VX1 with tesla modules

Post by cheapcookie » Jun 13, 2017 8:44 pm

damn those tesla packs, you said you got rid of tesla bms because of change in configuration ? 6s -> 12s

User avatar
jimwebo
10 W
10 W
Posts: 80
Joined: Mar 17, 2014 6:39 pm
Location: Asturias-North of Spain

Re: Conversion Vectrix VX1 with tesla modules

Post by jimwebo » Jun 16, 2017 4:18 pm

jonescg wrote:That wasn't aluminium you were soldering to, it's nickel. Aluminium won't take tin based solder. Very clever approach by the way!
Hi.
Do you mean that the blade of the module are made of nickel and not aluminum?
I assure you it's aluminum.
With flux and sufficient heat if it can be soldered with tin.
A greeting.
Electric life.

User avatar
jimwebo
10 W
10 W
Posts: 80
Joined: Mar 17, 2014 6:39 pm
Location: Asturias-North of Spain

Re: Conversion Vectrix VX1 with tesla modules

Post by jimwebo » Jun 16, 2017 4:19 pm

cheapcookie wrote:damn those tesla packs, you said you got rid of tesla bms because of change in configuration ? 6s -> 12s
That's right, I'm not using BMS.
Although I have the cells monitored.
A greeting.
Electric life.

User avatar
jimwebo
10 W
10 W
Posts: 80
Joined: Mar 17, 2014 6:39 pm
Location: Asturias-North of Spain

Re: Conversion Vectrix VX1 with tesla modules

Post by jimwebo » Jun 16, 2017 4:21 pm

cwah wrote:Amazing!!
Conversion cost?

No bms?
There are no bms.
The cells are so stable and the loading and unloading limits so conservative that there is no problem.
The cost of three modules about 3000 €.
Electric life.

User avatar
jonescg
1 GW
1 GW
Posts: 3335
Joined: Aug 07, 2009 9:22 pm
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Re: Conversion Vectrix VX1 with tesla modules

Post by jonescg » Jun 18, 2017 12:57 am

jimwebo wrote:
jonescg wrote:That wasn't aluminium you were soldering to, it's nickel. Aluminium won't take tin based solder. Very clever approach by the way!
Hi.
Do you mean that the blade of the module are made of nickel and not aluminum?
I assure you it's aluminum.
With flux and sufficient heat if it can be soldered with tin.
A greeting.
So you're saying this stuff is aluminium?
busplate.PNG
busplate.PNG (228.13 KiB) Viewed 877 times
If you can hold a magnet up to it (without a cell behind it) and it's attracted to it, it's nickel. If a magnet falls off, it could be aluminium or tinned copper. I will eat my straw hat if you managed to solder copper to aluminium with lead-tin solder with a large soldering iron.

User avatar
rojitor
100 kW
100 kW
Posts: 1020
Joined: Mar 23, 2011 6:39 pm
Location: vigo spain

Re: Conversion Vectrix VX1 with tesla modules

Post by rojitor » Jun 18, 2017 8:09 am

Yeah dude! Jim battery corporation always does a good job. :mrgreen:

User avatar
amberwolf
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 23928
Joined: Aug 17, 2009 6:43 am
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth, Sol, Local Bubble, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group
Contact:

Re: Conversion Vectrix VX1 with tesla modules

Post by amberwolf » Jun 18, 2017 6:28 pm

I know that *someone* has posted a tesla pack teardown showing what that material is, but I can't find it here on ES or anywhere else. :/ I found many posts and pages on the web in general about such teardowns, but almost all of them simply reference other places that reference other places that don't exist anymore, or don't have any actual information about construction (just about how heavy they are or how hard they are to tear apart, usually).


I had thought that it *was* aluminum, but according to this post:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... A#p1284898
they are "nickel-plated copper-core bus bars".

Anyway, whatever it is is thick and is the same stuff throughout it's thickness, per this image:
https://i58.servimg.com/u/f58/19/71/39/17/dsc_1216.jpg
from the OP's post showing the cutting of the material. (the upper layers are whatever tape or insulating material he put on there, presumably to protect it during the cutting process).

User avatar
jimwebo
10 W
10 W
Posts: 80
Joined: Mar 17, 2014 6:39 pm
Location: Asturias-North of Spain

Re: Conversion Vectrix VX1 with tesla modules

Post by jimwebo » Jun 22, 2017 11:21 pm

jonescg wrote:
jimwebo wrote:
jonescg wrote:That wasn't aluminium you were soldering to, it's nickel. Aluminium won't take tin based solder. Very clever approach by the way!
Hi.
Do you mean that the blade of the module are made of nickel and not aluminum?
I assure you it's aluminum.
With flux and sufficient heat if it can be soldered with tin.
A greeting.
So you're saying this stuff is aluminium?
busplate.PNG
If you can hold a magnet up to it (without a cell behind it) and it's attracted to it, it's nickel. If a magnet falls off, it could be aluminium or tinned copper. I will eat my straw hat if you managed to solder copper to aluminium with lead-tin solder with a large soldering iron.



Although I do not have a spectrometer, I'm sure it's aluminum.
If it were nickel-plated copper as they say, the chips and cut would look copper-colored and yet everything is aluminum color.
In addition, before I ventured to solder on the battery, I tested on aluminum plate.
Go cooking that hat. Hahahaha
A greeting.
Jim
Last edited by jimwebo on Jun 22, 2017 11:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Electric life.

User avatar
jimwebo
10 W
10 W
Posts: 80
Joined: Mar 17, 2014 6:39 pm
Location: Asturias-North of Spain

Re: Conversion Vectrix VX1 with tesla modules

Post by jimwebo » Jun 22, 2017 11:26 pm

Electric life.

User avatar
jimwebo
10 W
10 W
Posts: 80
Joined: Mar 17, 2014 6:39 pm
Location: Asturias-North of Spain

Re: Conversion Vectrix VX1 with tesla modules

Post by jimwebo » Jun 22, 2017 11:27 pm

rojitor wrote:Yeah dude! Jim battery corporation always does a good job. :mrgreen:
Gracias compañero.
Electric life.

User avatar
jonescg
1 GW
1 GW
Posts: 3335
Joined: Aug 07, 2009 9:22 pm
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Re: Conversion Vectrix VX1 with tesla modules

Post by jonescg » Jun 22, 2017 11:39 pm

Wow - I'll have it with tomato sauce then :)

Interesting flux - you used regular tin-lead solder for this too? There was a time when A123 pouch cells were all the rage, and people were going crazy trying to find a way of soldering them. Wonder why they never came across this stuff...

Did you clean the residue with acetone afterwards?

User avatar
jimwebo
10 W
10 W
Posts: 80
Joined: Mar 17, 2014 6:39 pm
Location: Asturias-North of Spain

Re: Conversion Vectrix VX1 with tesla modules

Post by jimwebo » Jun 22, 2017 11:53 pm

Cleaning with acetone, before and after soldering.
To be honest, I could not believe that it was possible to weld aluminum.
But I had to try, putting screws was not an option, because I only had a few millimeters of available space
Electric life.

Alfon
1 µW
1 µW
Posts: 1
Joined: Nov 11, 2017 9:02 am

Re: Conversion Vectrix VX1 with tesla modules

Post by Alfon » Nov 11, 2017 9:07 am

Hello.
Jimwebo, what is the range with this conversion of tesla battery ?
I has the same Vectrix VX1 and I thinking to convert my actual li-ion of 8kWh to 3x5,6kWh of Tesla.

Thanks.

Best regards
Alfonso Torres

User avatar
jimwebo
10 W
10 W
Posts: 80
Joined: Mar 17, 2014 6:39 pm
Location: Asturias-North of Spain

Re: Conversion Vectrix VX1 with tesla modules

Post by jimwebo » Nov 11, 2017 9:50 am

Hi.
Well about 200 km, but without throttle limit.
That distance can increase a lot if it stays at 70km / h.
Greetings and good luck with your conversion.
Jim
Electric life.

Boekel
1 µW
1 µW
Posts: 1
Joined: Nov 26, 2017 6:56 pm

Re: Conversion Vectrix VX1 with tesla modules

Post by Boekel » Nov 26, 2017 7:08 pm

Could it be nickel plated aluminium?

There is a different shine on part of the bus-bar plate...as you can see in the bottom left corner here, I think the plating is different there:

Image

http://boekel.nu/foto/17/2017-02-tesla/image84.htm

Bare aluminium also doesn't stay shiny...

User avatar
jonescg
1 GW
1 GW
Posts: 3335
Joined: Aug 07, 2009 9:22 pm
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Re: Conversion Vectrix VX1 with tesla modules

Post by jonescg » Nov 26, 2017 7:27 pm

Yes, the answer is nickel plated aluminium. My work ended up buying one of these modules so we had the chance to mess around with it.

So I ate my straw hat, but probably only needed to eat half of it. The solder anneals with the nickel plating quite nicely.

User avatar
jimwebo
10 W
10 W
Posts: 80
Joined: Mar 17, 2014 6:39 pm
Location: Asturias-North of Spain

Re: Conversion Vectrix VX1 with tesla modules

Post by jimwebo » Nov 27, 2017 7:05 am

Gentlemen, the discussion here is what material is the plate?
It really does not matter, aluminum, plated aluminum ..... what else?
Without flux it does not weld.
And of easy nothing, I worked years as a plumber and I have experience with tin welding in pipes and gutters.
I give you a welding method that works.
You're welcome.
I wish I could use screws, but there is not enough space on the bike.
By the way, to prove that it is not 100% aluminum I do not like half of that hat.
A greeting.
Jim
Electric life.

Post Reply