BOSS LEVEL CUSTOM SPOT WELDER

Batteries, Chargers, and Battery Management Systems.
progrock
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Re: BOSS LEVEL CUSTOM SPOT WELDER

Post by progrock » Nov 25, 2017 4:44 am

Nice video.

I'm about to finish up my 20s pack, debating on how I want to the the battery charge/discharge cables. I think I might go with AMASS AS150 connectors.... They come in packs of 4 individual 1 wire connectors, 2 male, 2 female... with 1 male being anti spark. Because of this, I was just going to use a single Anti spark (male) connector on the battery's positive, and then as required, 1 for each of the charge and discharge negative connections on/from the BMS. Was originally gonna use XT150's since i have 3 colors of them... and only 2 of the AS150, but the AS150 not only has the anti spark functionality, but is also a little bit bigger, spec for slightly higher current.

Anyway, just trying to decide on what Gender to put on everything. The male Anti spark is the obvious one... in which case, if I wanted to have the same gender for both on the charger, I would have to go female. THO, having different gender on it would make it basically impossible to wire backwards... but it's also easy enough to differentiate red from black. And I suppose depending on whether I decide to go both the same gender on the charger or not, would lead to a decision on what to use on the negative discharge cable. And I already know the positive on both the charger and the controller at least have to be female if the common positive on the battery is the anti spark male. I suppose if both the charge and discharge negative connections are the same gender... it could lead to confusion, being the same color... BUT that's also easy enough to solve with a piece of colored electrical tape or something... and one thing to consider is... would it even matter if the negative cable form the charger was accidentally hooked up to negative discharge cable from the BMS/battery pack.

Anyone got a common technique on this one.. I suppose if you're used to using 2 pin connectors, like the XT90, it's a ltitle different than using single wire connectors and eliminating the need for 2 different wires being connected to the positive end of the battery.

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rojitor
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Re: BOSS LEVEL CUSTOM SPOT WELDER

Post by rojitor » Nov 25, 2017 4:57 am

I like idiotproof solutions. Those connectors..... you can't fail even being drunk.
Xt90 and andersons are my fav.

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Re: BOSS LEVEL CUSTOM SPOT WELDER

Post by progrock » Nov 25, 2017 5:55 pm

A good point and I do have a bunch of XT-90-S (anti spark)... But I'm gonna see if there's a setup with them and still be completely idiot proof. If not , I'll probably go with the XT-90-S, which was my original plan... till I got a good deal on 5 sets of AS150s. I'd prefer to use the AS150's tho, that way there will only be 1 wire to/from the positive side of the battery pack, won't need to split/splice a second wire in.

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Re: BOSS LEVEL CUSTOM SPOT WELDER

Post by zro-1 » Jan 15, 2018 8:53 pm

I finally got around to welding my pack. I was super impressed with this welder. Here's a close-up of the welds:
IMG_0123.jpg
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~01~

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Re: BOSS LEVEL CUSTOM SPOT WELDER

Post by mushymelon » Jan 16, 2018 6:06 pm

The welds look ok but you may want to rethink your design. Using insulators on the positive cells is much safer. My main concern is the extra tab between the cell ends. This is not good and could cause a dead short if you melted the thin plastic wrap. Double up on the tabs if necessary, but don't weld directly over the edge of the positive cell like that. I hope you understand my concerns.

All the best

Matt
IMG_0123.jpg
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Re: BOSS LEVEL CUSTOM SPOT WELDER

Post by izeman » Jan 17, 2018 10:37 am

or just use wider strips. there are 25mm wide strips available as well. they would be a perfect fit for 2 batteries side to side.

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Re: BOSS LEVEL CUSTOM SPOT WELDER

Post by zro-1 » Jan 17, 2018 5:57 pm

Now that I have a welder I want to make a pack same as this but with 20700's instead of 18650's. I would love to use some 25mm x .15mm pure nickel strip to make that pack. That would be a BOSS pack ;)
~01~

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Re: BOSS LEVEL CUSTOM SPOT WELDER

Post by izeman » Jan 26, 2018 11:42 am

i received the welder today, together with 0.15mm pure nickle.
it seems to work, but i can't make any welds that stick. i set it to 5ms, press the electrodes on the nickle and it welds. but the welds are that weak that the nickle falls off just by lifting it and the weight of the battery pulls it off.
what am i doing wrong? if i turn up the welding time it just sparks and blasts holes into the nickle.
i tried to weld the nickle to some knive blades, and the results are a bit better. i can see some welding marks at the back side of the blade. but still quite easy to remove.
what it would expect was a weld where i need serious power to remove the nickle and tear it apart with round nickle marks remaining on the battery. correct?
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rojitor
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Re: BOSS LEVEL CUSTOM SPOT WELDER

Post by rojitor » Jan 26, 2018 4:40 pm

0.15 with 4ms is enough. Something is wrong there. The lipo must have a good Connection. Did you solder an XT or are you using adaptor? Are both nickel and cells clean? They must be perfectly clean. Do you Apply some pressure with your finger? There must be no gaps at all. Please post a pic of all your setup.
You should need nippers to remove tabs. 0.15 is Nothing for this welder.

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Re: BOSS LEVEL CUSTOM SPOT WELDER

Post by Aulakiria » Jan 26, 2018 5:45 pm

Is the left side of the picture (minus the battery) properly spot welded?

The right side of the picture (plus on the battery) appears to be in the wrong position.
Make sure that both electrodes are located on the battery terminals (metal part).


What kind of battery did you use?
Battery performance is important.

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rojitor
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Re: BOSS LEVEL CUSTOM SPOT WELDER

Post by rojitor » Jan 26, 2018 5:57 pm

I agree. Looks like the right side has welds in the air,not on the positive button. That makes holes for sure.
Nevertheless the negative at the left should be very firm using 5ms. No way to remove it easily.

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Re: BOSS LEVEL CUSTOM SPOT WELDER

Post by jonyjoe303 » Jan 26, 2018 11:19 pm

"The electrodes wires jumping is normal. As a matter of fact that's how it should be. At least one of the wires must jump. The sparks with pure nickel...."

I had the same problem with wire jumping around and getting very warm and giving me weak welds even at the higher settings. I was using 8 gauge speaker wire for the probes.

I decided to upgrade to 6 gauge pure copper welding cables for my probes, that solve all my problems. Probe doesnt jump around like before, I get good welds at lower power setting, and the cables get warm but not to were I have to stop to let them cool down as before. Highly recommend 6 gauge copper welding cables for your probes, you wont regret it. The 6 gauge copper cable are nice thick and heavy but get the job done.

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izeman
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Re: BOSS LEVEL CUSTOM SPOT WELDER

Post by izeman » Jan 27, 2018 3:40 am

Aulakiria wrote:
Jan 26, 2018 5:45 pm
Is the left side of the picture (minus the battery) properly spot welded?
no it's not. it looks quite ok, but you can remove it by lifting the nickle.
The right side of the picture (plus on the battery) appears to be in the wrong position.
Make sure that both electrodes are located on the battery terminals (metal part).
yes. sorry for the misleading picture. the welds are from a earlier test. the only relevant part is the negative pole of the left battery.
What kind of battery did you use?
Battery performance is important.
i tried different ones. i have 3s 40c 2.650mAh. 2 in parallel. probably the adapter is too weak? 12awg from battery to adapter. then 2x 14awg to xt60. and 10awg between xt60 and xt90 at the welder.
i also tried a 4s 3.850mAh (charged to 15v only) with xt90 directly soldered to the battery wires.
the result didn't really change.

if i set it to 2x and 16ms i can get welds that stick a bit better. not what they need to be yet.
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rojitor
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Re: BOSS LEVEL CUSTOM SPOT WELDER

Post by rojitor » Jan 27, 2018 5:41 am

That adaptor is stealing your amps. Is too weak. I use direct XT parallel adaptors.
Image
Nevertheless the 4s battery looks ok. It should make a good job.
I'd try to full charge and test it with low ms. The wires must jump when you weld. If they are still you have not enough amps in the game. Also make sure you have everything clean and Apply some pressure.
Maybe lee is on bed right now. Contact him later.

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Re: BOSS LEVEL CUSTOM SPOT WELDER

Post by izeman » Jan 27, 2018 6:16 am

the 4s is 3.850 and 20c only. so not really strong. are you sure that charging it to 4.2v/cell is ok for the welder?
i now just make a 3s 15.000mAh pack (directly soldered to each other) to test. we'll see how this performs. i have so many spare 5.000mAh zippy cells lying around. they make big high capacity, high current packs for all purposes.
by jumping wires: do you mean battery or welder wires? the welder wires jump, the battery wires don't.

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Re: BOSS LEVEL CUSTOM SPOT WELDER

Post by Aulakiria » Jan 27, 2018 6:23 am

Use wires that are thicker than 8awg.
The thickness of the wire limits the current.

Battery performance differs from maker to maker.
The battery manufacturer uses wires that match the battery output.

What is the AWG of the battery?
My recommended battery is 10AWG.
If the battery wire is 12awg, the output is as weak.

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Re: BOSS LEVEL CUSTOM SPOT WELDER

Post by Aulakiria » Jan 27, 2018 6:27 am

Please use 4s battery fully charged
Theoretically, up to 30v can be used.
However, the higher the voltage, the more sparks are generated and the more difficult it is to control the exact strength.

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Re: BOSS LEVEL CUSTOM SPOT WELDER

Post by izeman » Jan 27, 2018 6:29 am

i have never seen a lipo with awg8. all my 6s come with #10. and the 3s come with #12.
the 3s 15Ah will have #10 as well, 5cm long and directly soldered XT90. the 15Ah battery should be capable of 300A output or 3kW.

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Re: BOSS LEVEL CUSTOM SPOT WELDER

Post by izeman » Jan 27, 2018 6:29 am

Aulakiria wrote:
Jan 27, 2018 6:27 am
Please use 4s battery fully charged
Theoretically, up to 30v can be used.
However, the higher the voltage, the more sparks are generated and the more difficult it is to control the exact strength.
i'll try. thanks.

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Re: BOSS LEVEL CUSTOM SPOT WELDER

Post by rojitor » Jan 27, 2018 6:40 am

The pen wires are the ones that jump. The battery wires do not. The pen supplied by aulakiria is 8awg thick. If you use a bigger Gauge as jonyjoe303 suggested they will not jump that much but also could become dangerous for the fets at 4s. The amperage at 4s must be under control. Test it at low flux times and increase slowly.

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Re: BOSS LEVEL CUSTOM SPOT WELDER

Post by izeman » Jan 27, 2018 6:54 am

rojitor wrote:
Jan 27, 2018 6:40 am
The pen wires are the ones that jump. The battery wires do not. The pen supplied by aulakiria is 8awg thick. If you use a bigger Gauge as jonyjoe303 suggested they will not jump that much but also could become dangerous for the fets at 4s. The amperage at 4s must be under control. Test it at low flux times and increase slowly.
ok. got it. the new battery will be finished soon so i can test both. i'm also just charging the 4s. so expect new results soon :)

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Re: BOSS LEVEL CUSTOM SPOT WELDER

Post by izeman » Jan 27, 2018 7:42 am

did the test with 0.15 nickle and a fully charged 4s (3.850 and 20).
i had to set the time to 12ms and 2x and got those results which look good to me. what do you think?
a) how do the (intact) welds look to you? too burnt?
b) took pliers to remove the strip. had to tear it off and it left holes in the strip and some little nickle bumps at the battery.
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Re: BOSS LEVEL CUSTOM SPOT WELDER

Post by rojitor » Jan 27, 2018 8:12 am

12ms looks too much to me. Please test it on a blade and check the value that makes decent welds without burnings or black Spots at the reverse.

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Re: BOSS LEVEL CUSTOM SPOT WELDER

Post by izeman » Jan 27, 2018 10:36 am

GOOD NEWS!! i now finished my really powerful 3s 15Ah lipo with #10 wires, directly connected to the XT90 with short wires. and results are excellent.
"5ms" x2 gives a good penetration, you can see the blue dots of welding on the backside of the blade, and when you rip off the nickle it tears off. PERFECT.

so for anyone: TAKE THE BATTERY ISSUE SERIOUS!!

@rojitor: maybe you could add that to your very first post. reading through all of it i didn't notice the very importance of the battery (quality). i even saw a picture of using a "crappy" B-grade cell, which made me think, that battery was a minor thing to think about. :lol:

thanks to anyone for helping me out that quickly!

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Re: BOSS LEVEL CUSTOM SPOT WELDER

Post by rojitor » Jan 27, 2018 10:45 am

I am more than glad you fixed it. It is true that lee used crappy b grade lipo but it is a hobbyking lipo anyway.
Some people reported issues at other forums. Thin wires and wrong parallel connectors are to blame.
I wanted to make a video about common issues but I am very busy lately. You are right, I must at least make a comment about the importance of the amps delivery.

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