What is the "Light Weight" go to "Hobby" Lithium packs

Batteries, Chargers, and Battery Management Systems.
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Re: What is the "Light Weight" go to "Hobby" Lithium packs

Post by flat tire » Oct 21, 2017 8:23 pm

I'm using RC lipo only right now, actually, but I use high discharge cells. Why, I want a small pack with consistent performance and low sag. Also, fire is a huge danger with both RC lipo and 18650, not because it's super likely but because the consequences can be huge. Nobody should be complacent about ebike batteries catching fire, and furthermore, I haven't suggested that RC lipo is safer or less safe than 18650.

20ah and 16ah turnigy 6s are already in my battery spreadsheet are both around $330 / kWh. But, wh / kg is real shit though, around 175 for both. Keep in mind the 25R is 211 and the 30Q 240.

Also even with your "ace in the hole" paypal invoice your batteries are still around $385 / kWh. That's good value, but not the best. :D

One thing you do have right is the charging setup. *edit* never mind it's cool in theory but in reality those cheap cell bleeders are not very accurate and you also don't need to balance very often if you treat the batteries well.
Orange DH w/ Cyclone mid on 6kw
Gary Fisher w/ Leaf hub on 6kw
RC Lipo and domino throttles only!

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Re: What is the "Light Weight" go to "Hobby" Lithium packs

Post by Tommy L » Oct 22, 2017 8:06 am

Wow! I didn’t mean for this to become a battle ground.

With regards to the Alarms. 1/10 of a volt off?
Big deal........... no? No...... I don’t think so.

It’s only there to tell (alarm) you of a low cell
In any pack. If I set them to 3.6 and it’s really alarming at 3.5 or 3.7
And my CA tells me I’m close to using my Watt Hours, then I’ll know that everything is still good.


But if I’m not close to using my watt hours, and it’s going off, then
Houston we have a problem!

Too Bad my LiFePO4 weren’t more energy dense. No voltage sag up to 7C
Always consistent and happy!

Thank you for all the input.
http://www.rawvelocity.com

- 4th Hoolagan FS Mtn 9C-2810 with 128v nom 9.2ah A123 40S40P(1.2Kw) - Lyen 18Fet 4115 - 77.8kph :)
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =4&t=39480

- 3rd Catrike 700 Bionx PL350 Velo build
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYdnkaAhVtI

- 2nd 150lbs Pusher Trailer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1qTc4sjORY

- 1st Sears NS mtn bike - Rigid 10a drill 800rpm - 2 12v AGM - 1000 watt inverter - 600w dimmer for throttle, wicked torque!

48.2mph/77.8kph Club

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motomech
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Re: What is the "Light Weight" go to "Hobby" Lithium packs

Post by motomech » Oct 22, 2017 11:49 am

No battleground, flat tire is very even-tempered.

My experience w/. low-Voltage alarms is not their accuracy, but the timing when they go off. One cell might dip down and set it off a little early or if the cells are even, by the time the alarm goes off, all the cells end up somewhat lower than the set value of the alarm.
If you are stuck w/ relying on a low-Voltage alarm, I would suggest two things.
Mount a Voltmeter so when the alarm first starts to beep, you can quickly ck. the pack Voltage to see where you are really at.
And, carry enough battery capacity that you never get close to total dis-charge.

I use a LED display Voltmeter w/ a timed backlight so I can leave it always connected and it doesn't drain the pack;
100_0037.JPG
100_0037.JPG (66.95 KiB) Viewed 424 times
I actually use 2 on my 2Wd.
Motomech

'03 Rocky Mountain Edge 2WD 260 Q100H frt and Ezee V1 rear 2 Elifebike 20A & 25A 9-FET controllers 12S/20Ah Multistar Lipo rear 5Ah Turnigy frt Luna Cyclops Extra lite Alex 24DM rims, 2.4 Holly Rollers run ghetto tubeless. 25 mph. Mean Well HLG-320H-48A
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=83430
'07 GT Idive 4 4.0, Q100C 201 12S LiPoly elifebike 9-FET 17A controller. 20 MPH.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 8#p1237928

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Tommy L
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Re: What is the "Light Weight" go to "Hobby" Lithium packs

Post by Tommy L » Oct 23, 2017 11:50 am

motomech wrote:No battleground, flat tire is very even-tempered.

My experience w/. low-Voltage alarms is not their accuracy, but the timing when they go off. One cell might dip down and set it off a little early or if the cells are even, by the time the alarm goes off, all the cells end up somewhat lower than the set value of the alarm.
If you are stuck w/ relying on a low-Voltage alarm, I would suggest two things.
Mount a Voltmeter so when the alarm first starts to beep, you can quickly ck. the pack Voltage to see where you are really at.
And, carry enough battery capacity that you never get close to total dis-charge.

I use a LED display Voltmeter w/ a timed backlight so I can leave it always connected and it doesn't drain the pack;
100_0037.JPG
I actually use 2 on my 2Wd.

I have a CA that will tell me pack voltage. Pack Voltage is something that is good to see SAG while accelerating, but not so good on at individual CELL LEVEL SAG.
Cell Logs might be best, but at least with crappy little alarms, it can give an indication of something going bad.

I usually carry twice the capacity I require to avoid putting the pack into a heavy IR. Keeping the pack cool is always cool ;)
http://www.rawvelocity.com

- 4th Hoolagan FS Mtn 9C-2810 with 128v nom 9.2ah A123 40S40P(1.2Kw) - Lyen 18Fet 4115 - 77.8kph :)
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =4&t=39480

- 3rd Catrike 700 Bionx PL350 Velo build
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYdnkaAhVtI

- 2nd 150lbs Pusher Trailer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1qTc4sjORY

- 1st Sears NS mtn bike - Rigid 10a drill 800rpm - 2 12v AGM - 1000 watt inverter - 600w dimmer for throttle, wicked torque!

48.2mph/77.8kph Club

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Re: What is the "Light Weight" go to "Hobby" Lithium packs

Post by wineboyrider » Oct 23, 2017 8:21 pm

I use motomech's methods and have good luck with it. Currently have 12s 32ah Multistar batteries that I paid 350 bones for.
ES IS SAVED! THANK YOU JUSTIN.

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Tommy L
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Re: What is the "Light Weight" go to "Hobby" Lithium packs

Post by Tommy L » Oct 23, 2017 8:25 pm

wineboyrider wrote:I use motomech's methods and have good luck with it. Currently have 12s 32ah Multistar batteries that I paid 350 bones for.
how'd you get that deal?

I just got 24s 10ah or (12s 20ah) multistars for 359$ USD

you got a 1/3rd again watt hours for the same price.

Tell me how?

You must have got the cheap ones that are sold out :(
http://www.rawvelocity.com

- 4th Hoolagan FS Mtn 9C-2810 with 128v nom 9.2ah A123 40S40P(1.2Kw) - Lyen 18Fet 4115 - 77.8kph :)
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =4&t=39480

- 3rd Catrike 700 Bionx PL350 Velo build
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYdnkaAhVtI

- 2nd 150lbs Pusher Trailer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1qTc4sjORY

- 1st Sears NS mtn bike - Rigid 10a drill 800rpm - 2 12v AGM - 1000 watt inverter - 600w dimmer for throttle, wicked torque!

48.2mph/77.8kph Club

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motomech
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Re: What is the "Light Weight" go to "Hobby" Lithium packs

Post by motomech » Oct 23, 2017 8:58 pm

I keep ck'ing w/. Hobby King for MultiStar on sale, but I believe you can set up an alert.
I buy when what I want is on sale.
Fortunately, LiPoly will store forever. I once had a couple bricks in the fridge for over 6 months and when I pulled them out, the cell Voltages were the same as the day I put them in.
Motomech

'03 Rocky Mountain Edge 2WD 260 Q100H frt and Ezee V1 rear 2 Elifebike 20A & 25A 9-FET controllers 12S/20Ah Multistar Lipo rear 5Ah Turnigy frt Luna Cyclops Extra lite Alex 24DM rims, 2.4 Holly Rollers run ghetto tubeless. 25 mph. Mean Well HLG-320H-48A
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=83430
'07 GT Idive 4 4.0, Q100C 201 12S LiPoly elifebike 9-FET 17A controller. 20 MPH.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 8#p1237928

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Re: What is the "Light Weight" go to "Hobby" Lithium packs

Post by wineboyrider » Oct 24, 2017 9:30 am

Tommy L wrote:
wineboyrider wrote:I use motomech's methods and have good luck with it. Currently have 12s 32ah Multistar batteries that I paid 350 bones for.
how'd you get that deal?

I just got 24s 10ah or (12s 20ah) multistars for 359$ USD

you got a 1/3rd again watt hours for the same price.

Tell me how?

You must have got the cheap ones that are sold out :(
Got em on sale about 2 years ago and I store them in my refrigerator when not used :D
ES IS SAVED! THANK YOU JUSTIN.

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Re: What is the "Light Weight" go to "Hobby" Lithium packs

Post by Tommy L » Oct 24, 2017 10:58 am

wineboyrider wrote: Got em on sale about 2 years ago and I store them in my refrigerator when not used :D
Nice! :)
http://www.rawvelocity.com

- 4th Hoolagan FS Mtn 9C-2810 with 128v nom 9.2ah A123 40S40P(1.2Kw) - Lyen 18Fet 4115 - 77.8kph :)
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =4&t=39480

- 3rd Catrike 700 Bionx PL350 Velo build
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYdnkaAhVtI

- 2nd 150lbs Pusher Trailer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1qTc4sjORY

- 1st Sears NS mtn bike - Rigid 10a drill 800rpm - 2 12v AGM - 1000 watt inverter - 600w dimmer for throttle, wicked torque!

48.2mph/77.8kph Club

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Tommy L
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Re: What is the "Light Weight" go to "Hobby" Lithium packs

Post by Tommy L » Oct 24, 2017 10:05 pm

The MULTISTARS arrived today!

4S 10ah x 6 units. I can run 24S. My rear wheel is 2810 (10 turn) so I've been a High Voltage guy since the beginning. My Methods 9C DD 2810
and my Methods 7225C mini controller have been awesome. If you've never done High Voltage, you don't know what you are missing! Very Efficient! ;)

I did some bulk charging and all the cells stayed within 1 to 2/100th of a volt. So no runaways!
Bulk charged to 4.0-4.05ish..... then topped of with parallel JST charging with my BC168.

the BC168 charges through the JST connectors. nice to use the BC168 to top things off evenly.

Going to do a capacity test to see if there are any duds among the 24S.

I can't believe how much smaller and lighter these are as compared to my LiFePO4's.

1/2 the weight and less than 1/2 the size.

I should have tried this a while ago, but I got right into using LiFePO4's.
i even made a 2KW pack for my Electric Lawn Tractor some years back.
http://www.rawvelocity.com

- 4th Hoolagan FS Mtn 9C-2810 with 128v nom 9.2ah A123 40S40P(1.2Kw) - Lyen 18Fet 4115 - 77.8kph :)
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =4&t=39480

- 3rd Catrike 700 Bionx PL350 Velo build
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYdnkaAhVtI

- 2nd 150lbs Pusher Trailer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1qTc4sjORY

- 1st Sears NS mtn bike - Rigid 10a drill 800rpm - 2 12v AGM - 1000 watt inverter - 600w dimmer for throttle, wicked torque!

48.2mph/77.8kph Club

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Re: What is the "Light Weight" go to "Hobby" Lithium packs

Post by wineboyrider » Oct 25, 2017 6:35 pm

I was going to use them for my lawnmower build, but now I use them on my current ebikes and electric scooters. The pack is big enough to run a lawnmower though, which I never could get the funds to build.
ES IS SAVED! THANK YOU JUSTIN.

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Re: What is the "Light Weight" go to "Hobby" Lithium packs

Post by Tommy L » Oct 25, 2017 10:34 pm

Took the new 24s MultiStar 10ah pack out for a test ride and just got back!
I dumped 3600 Watts or 3.6KW into my 9C2810 DD Hub motor. It just loves it when I do that! ha!

I started out at 98V. The CA Reports 92.1v min and 35Amp Max. So the cells hit 3.83333volts on a Hard Acceleration.
And quickly recovered after the hard pull. So a burst of 3.5C on pack seems to be ok. I love High Voltage!

I always run between 84 to 144v of LiFePO4's, so it's nice to run 24S for my first time. Was also nice to read here somewhere in the
forum how the MULTISTARS are apparently very good quality control since they are used for Multi Rotor Choppers. Also nice that they come
in various BRICK sizes!

I now have 888Wh Lithium Colbalt? vs 560Wh (of my LiFePO4's)
exactly 1/3rd the size as compared to my LiFePO4 pack
and 1/2 the weight to boot!

So far i'm happy with my decision to try MultiStars vs LG or Panasonic 18650 cells.

I'm sure the 18650 cells (If sized correctly) would also be good, but you cant beat the WH price of the MultiStars.
Also, I like being my own Battery Management System.
http://www.rawvelocity.com

- 4th Hoolagan FS Mtn 9C-2810 with 128v nom 9.2ah A123 40S40P(1.2Kw) - Lyen 18Fet 4115 - 77.8kph :)
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =4&t=39480

- 3rd Catrike 700 Bionx PL350 Velo build
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYdnkaAhVtI

- 2nd 150lbs Pusher Trailer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1qTc4sjORY

- 1st Sears NS mtn bike - Rigid 10a drill 800rpm - 2 12v AGM - 1000 watt inverter - 600w dimmer for throttle, wicked torque!

48.2mph/77.8kph Club

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Tommy L
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Re: What is the "Light Weight" go to "Hobby" Lithium packs

Post by Tommy L » Nov 01, 2017 5:10 pm

MultiStar 4s 10ah packs on sale at Hobby K!!!!!!
from 58 down to 40$ wow..... so I purchased 6 more! :)
http://www.rawvelocity.com

- 4th Hoolagan FS Mtn 9C-2810 with 128v nom 9.2ah A123 40S40P(1.2Kw) - Lyen 18Fet 4115 - 77.8kph :)
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =4&t=39480

- 3rd Catrike 700 Bionx PL350 Velo build
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYdnkaAhVtI

- 2nd 150lbs Pusher Trailer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1qTc4sjORY

- 1st Sears NS mtn bike - Rigid 10a drill 800rpm - 2 12v AGM - 1000 watt inverter - 600w dimmer for throttle, wicked torque!

48.2mph/77.8kph Club

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Re: What is the "Light Weight" go to "Hobby" Lithium packs

Post by motomech » Nov 01, 2017 10:52 pm

And the MultiStar 6S/10,000 mAh bricks are on sale for $72 Ea. 4) make a 44V/20,000 mAh pack for $300 delivered!
The MultiStars are the best Value in Ebiking, one that is largely ignored due to persistent dogma. The MS's trade a lower C rate for smaller size, lower weight and LOWER VOLATILITY. To date, I'm not aware of any of the MultiStars catching on fire. They have changed the way I ebike, for sure.
Motomech

'03 Rocky Mountain Edge 2WD 260 Q100H frt and Ezee V1 rear 2 Elifebike 20A & 25A 9-FET controllers 12S/20Ah Multistar Lipo rear 5Ah Turnigy frt Luna Cyclops Extra lite Alex 24DM rims, 2.4 Holly Rollers run ghetto tubeless. 25 mph. Mean Well HLG-320H-48A
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=83430
'07 GT Idive 4 4.0, Q100C 201 12S LiPoly elifebike 9-FET 17A controller. 20 MPH.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 8#p1237928

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Re: What is the "Light Weight" go to "Hobby" Lithium packs

Post by wineboyrider » Nov 02, 2017 9:03 am

Mine are 4s 16ah and I love them. Ever thought about trying them on your lawnmower Tommy L?
ES IS SAVED! THANK YOU JUSTIN.

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Tommy L
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Re: What is the "Light Weight" go to "Hobby" Lithium packs

Post by Tommy L » Nov 02, 2017 12:14 pm

wineboyrider wrote:Mine are 4s 16ah and I love them. Ever thought about trying them on your lawnmower Tommy L?
I moved from Canada to Florida, USA. I dissembled the Lawn Tractor and saved all but the chassis.
[youtube]ygu8bV423wU&t=16s[/youtube]

I purchased the 10ah 4s packs for size and being able to add another 10ah if needed.
I'm finding that i'm glad I purchased at least 10ah as there is only really 6-7ah usable to be kind to the pack.
I charge to 4.1 and stop at 3.7v. so another parallel group of 10ah will really give me a 12-14ah pack (about 1.3kwh) and if I
need to charge up all the way and use it all (all 12 4S 10ah packs), I will have close to 1.8kwh or 1800 wh or using only 6 4s 10ah around 900wh's :)

So I've got options. If they go on sale, I will go after the 16ah pack and or the 20ah packs! Very good IR on this first 6 4s packs I have!
I'll see how they hold up!

Tommy L sends....
http://www.rawvelocity.com

- 4th Hoolagan FS Mtn 9C-2810 with 128v nom 9.2ah A123 40S40P(1.2Kw) - Lyen 18Fet 4115 - 77.8kph :)
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =4&t=39480

- 3rd Catrike 700 Bionx PL350 Velo build
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYdnkaAhVtI

- 2nd 150lbs Pusher Trailer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1qTc4sjORY

- 1st Sears NS mtn bike - Rigid 10a drill 800rpm - 2 12v AGM - 1000 watt inverter - 600w dimmer for throttle, wicked torque!

48.2mph/77.8kph Club

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Re: What is the "Light Weight" go to "Hobby" Lithium packs

Post by timmy66 » Nov 05, 2017 1:02 pm

Am curious for these types of packs -- how well are they maintaining their balance when used this way?

What is the estimated lifetime of these types of packs - same as modern 18650 cells?

Nice seeing a reasonable option, thanks for sharing.

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Re: What is the "Light Weight" go to "Hobby" Lithium packs

Post by flat tire » Nov 06, 2017 10:58 pm

timmy66 wrote:Am curious for these types of packs -- how well are they maintaining their balance when used this way?
About as good as anything else just don't discharge too far or they'll go out of balance.
Orange DH w/ Cyclone mid on 6kw
Gary Fisher w/ Leaf hub on 6kw
RC Lipo and domino throttles only!

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Tommy L
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Re: What is the "Light Weight" go to "Hobby" Lithium packs

Post by Tommy L » Nov 26, 2017 7:03 pm

timmy66 wrote:
Nov 05, 2017 1:02 pm
Am curious for these types of packs -- how well are they maintaining their balance when used this way?

What is the estimated lifetime of these types of packs - same as modern 18650 cells?

Nice seeing a reasonable option, thanks for sharing.
After a couple of charge cycles..... the discharge
Seems to hold within 2/100th of a volt per cell on a 24 in series set up. I’m impressed with the equal IR of these cells.
http://www.rawvelocity.com

- 4th Hoolagan FS Mtn 9C-2810 with 128v nom 9.2ah A123 40S40P(1.2Kw) - Lyen 18Fet 4115 - 77.8kph :)
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =4&t=39480

- 3rd Catrike 700 Bionx PL350 Velo build
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYdnkaAhVtI

- 2nd 150lbs Pusher Trailer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1qTc4sjORY

- 1st Sears NS mtn bike - Rigid 10a drill 800rpm - 2 12v AGM - 1000 watt inverter - 600w dimmer for throttle, wicked torque!

48.2mph/77.8kph Club

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