Spray foam to secure batteries?

Slozukimc

10 W
Joined
Nov 28, 2016
Messages
73
Location
Montour Falls,NY USA
I am thinking of using a low expansion spray foam to secure my lipo batteries in the frame triangle. I don’t mean just stick them in there and spray. I mean build a form/box and use a small amount of foam to fill in the gaps and literally glue the packs in place.

Any thoughts?

Thanks, Mike
 
I used 2-part silicone; 37ShA hardness (soft pencil eraser). While it weights more and is probably more expensive, it's more durable and will not stick permanently to most surfaces - I can cut my battery apart again if there's need for that.
 
I would wrap the bricks in pallet wrap film first. Something to let you get to them - out just in case you want to change things up a bit. I would also use the low pressure "great stuff" that is designed to go around doors and windows so you not putting too much uneven pressure on them. You could also bury some cooling lines in the goop if you have the room. 8)
 
speedmd said:
I would wrap the bricks in pallet wrap film first. Something to let you get to them - out just in case you want to change things up a bit. I would also use the low pressure "great stuff" that is designed to go around doors and windows so you not putting too much uneven pressure on them.
+1
Or just line the box with one garbage bag, wrap the battery in another garbage bag, and shoot the foam in between. That should get you the cushion while dodging most of the annoying u-foam glueiness....

This used to be a popular ad hoc means to ship fragile stuff like CRT tubes, etc. The box would get a shot of foam and the foam covered by a plastic sheet (thin like a garbage bag). After setting up a bit, the object was chucked in, covered with another sheet and the box filled with foam and closed. This made two custom object-shaped top and bottom half foam cushions that made it easy to remove the top foam chunk and the object. There's probably not enough room to get as elaborate in your battery box, but maybe part of the concept can be applied...
 
Some of that foam has surprisingly high compression ratings, esp the real two part liquid epoxy ones.

Doing some kind of thin backing plates like plywood against the battery with blobs of foam behind them might give a good balance between a stiff face to minimize puffing but still removable at some point...
 
Makes sense. You can get foam in many different densities and strengths. Many structural products are made from dense foam molding. I used some two part structural insulation foam on a shed that I tore about sixty percent of the frame out of. It's stronger than new and has survived to hurricanes. Also sealed leaks and keeps it about as cool as under a shady tree.
 
All great ideas. Thanks! I intend to use the low expansion foam. I like wrapping the packs with Saran Wrap or the like.

Mike
 
something i've thought about doing too - the one issue i see however (other than stickyness if you ever need to remove cells) is its insulating properties... if you cells are even slightly stressed they may get rather toasty - something that will likely get worse as they age. Not such a big deal if your using a 20C lipo pack at 1C max, but might be if your using it with consistent peaks closer to 5C or more. Same goes for any connectors or wires that will end up 'buried' in the foam - for example you wouldn't want to be pulling anywhere near 40A through the standard hobby-king 4mm connectors for extended periods if its encased in foam (they get warm, though far from 'too hot' in open air at 40A constant, in foam they'd be far hotter). Same goes for balance wires, or any other current carrying parts.

Not saying dont do it, just if the foam is going to be thick (more than a few mm) around such parts, then just take care to massively over rate components, either the wire/connector sizes or your batteries C rate.
 
As an example, over here:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=81108&hilit=luna#p1194271
I did some temperature testing of a pack under stress, and given that it rose in temperature from about 77F to about 101F, simply sitting in a plastic Samsonite case (with all of it's normal internal stuff removed, so it's just the plastics plus some styrofoam insulation top and bottom), I imagine completely encased in foam it'd've gotten hotter. And that was not a core measurement, just a barely-under-the-heatshrink one.

Since that starting temperature was when it was sitting in the breakroom at work for a shift, I imagine that when parked elsewhere, outside in summer heat, with time to soak up heat to reach the same as the 110F+ air temperatures (or much higher if in direct sunlight), that then the 24F+ rise in temperature would bring the pack to anything from 130-150F+ on the outer part of the outer cells, and the core temperature would be even higher.

I don't know what the self-ignition temperature of those particular cells is, but I can't imagine those high temperatures would be good for them even if they never reached dangerous levels.



Then as a second example, the EIG cells I use aren't put under much stress, and they also don't rise noticeably in temperature in use, from ambient (winter or summer). Encasing these on the trike are styrofoam sheets about an inch thick, mostly for the same purpose the OP wants the spray foam for--vibration damping / pack securing. They also provide some thermal insulation against the summer heat and the winter cold, but if the pack was under enough stress to self-heat greatly, I wouldn't use them, I'd find some other way to mount/secure them.


Regarding the wires, if I insulated the phase wires on the trike right now, they'd probably melt the insulation at least on the wires themselves, and perhaps whatever they were encased in--they get quite warm even out in the airflow under the trike even in cool weather.
 
amberwolf said:
As an example, over here:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=81108&hilit=luna#p1194271
I did some temperature testing of a pack under stress, and given that it rose in temperature from about 77F to about 101F, simply sitting in a plastic Samsonite case (with all of it's normal internal stuff removed, so it's just the plastics plus some styrofoam insulation top and bottom), I imagine completely encased in foam it'd've gotten hotter. And that was not a core measurement, just a barely-under-the-heatshrink one.

Since that starting temperature was when it was sitting in the breakroom at work for a shift, I imagine that when parked elsewhere, outside in summer heat, with time to soak up heat to reach the same as the 110F+ air temperatures (or much higher if in direct sunlight), that then the 24F+ rise in temperature would bring the pack to anything from 130-150F+ on the outer part of the outer cells, and the core temperature would be even higher.

I don't know what the self-ignition temperature of those particular cells is, but I can't imagine those high temperatures would be good for them even if they never reached dangerous levels.



Then as a second example, the EIG cells I use aren't put under much stress, and they also don't rise noticeably in temperature in use, from ambient (winter or summer). Encasing these on the trike are styrofoam sheets about an inch thick, mostly for the same purpose the OP wants the spray foam for--vibration damping / pack securing. They also provide some thermal insulation against the summer heat and the winter cold, but if the pack was under enough stress to self-heat greatly, I wouldn't use them, I'd find some other way to mount/secure them.


Regarding the wires, if I insulated the phase wires on the trike right now, they'd probably melt the insulation at least on the wires themselves, and perhaps whatever they were encased in--they get quite warm even out in the airflow under the trike even in cool weather.

Right now I am using a Kilowatt bag with 2 6s and 4 4s 16000mah Multistars with a Bbs02 that pulls 1200 to 1400w on a good hill. The packs never even get warm to the touch. That may change in the summer and with harder riding. The Kilowatt bag is just too wide to pedal comfortably so I would like to mount half of those packs in the frame triangle when I build my next bike. The bag is great for taking on and off of the Montague Paratrooper based TidalForce M750X frame I built this one on. I think I would prefer a bag like the HPC instead. The next bikes are a pair of Jamis mountain bikes with a little room to work with.

Mike
 
Back
Top