JackB
10 W
Disk brakes?
What is Holding E-Bikes Back
- Thread starter nlhaines
- Start date
Miles said:And the conclusion is that "the motorcar saved cities from the pollution, danger, smell and noise of horses..."??Punx0r said:
Anyway, no one proposed a return to horse drawn transport....
No, just musing the idea that the villain keeps changing
Some people have a very romantic idea of horses, but when they were in widespread use the reality appears to have been very different.Dauntless said:
Yes, based on the risk of dying behind the wheel when pissed compared to walking home pissed and being knocked down by another car. A flippant argument, perhaps, but I don't recall it having an attached recommendation to attempt to drive while paralytic.
I've never questioned the author's credibility. They're qualified, employed by reputable academic organisations and their arguments are fully referenced with legitimate-sounding sources. That seemed sufficient for quoting them in casual, fun conversation. If you have a reliable source that discredits them then I would be interesting in reading it!
mvadventure
1 kW
- Joined
- May 2, 2007
- Messages
- 419
This started as a great topic but has gotten a bit off track. To address the question however, IMHO, is somewhat multi faceted. There is a definite lack of e-bike dealers and while brands of dependable e-bikes are certainly out there, prices of those bikes are quite capable of presenting some serious sticker shock. For space consideration I'm not going to address kit e-bikes despite the fact I've built two.
I live in a flat land, Florida. Little or no hills (except bridges) and LOTS of cars. Riding a bike on the hwy, bike lane or not, e-bike or not, is dangerous around here. While cars are not always courteous to bikers, bikers are not always courteous to cars and that is especially true when a group of bikes ride together. In urban areas where there are no bike lanes it's flat out dangerous to ride.
Florida basically follows federal guidelines with e-bike regs and that includes the 20MPH speed limit. This allows e-bikes to ride on sidewalks and bike paths without interference from the law but also limits riding on streets to 20MPH which you gotta admit is faster than 99.9 % of pedal bikes and for all practical purposes is fast enough. I don't think it's necessary to change the law to make e-bikes faster.
Having made these brash statements, back to the subject. E-bikes need a dealer network that encompasses communities much the same way new car dealers do. Selection, service and price are critical to auto sales and I believe to e-bike sales. If we had a dealer in my community that sold at least two brands of e-bikes, offered great warranties, provided great service including service calls, had a showroom with a good selection of bikes and accessories and had the patience to introduce newbies to the electric world I firmly believe that dealer would be successful. Unfortunately we don't which means every e-bike I see is either kit built or purchased from a distant dealer or online. This means I rarely see another e-bike.
What's amazing to me is that a lot of folks, including a couple of those in my Sunday Morning riding group, don't think twice about spending a couple of thousand dollars on a road bike but think my Pedago Interceptor is expensive. My previous e-bike, one I converted using a Crystalyte 1000 watt, 48V 20AH LiPo batteries on a beach bike frame, cost more. Was uglier, not waterproof (even a little) and didn't handle half as well. (it did go 32MPH though)
All this makes me think a dealer network with informed staff and the concept outlined above, is what it's going to take to bring e-bikes to mainstream. For at least fifteen years people have looked at my bikes and were amazed such a thing as an electric bike existed. Any community that has safe bike trails, sidewalks where bikes are allowed and bike lanes has great potential but in order for that potential to be realized there has to be a dealer willing to invest time and money in a storefront and inventory.
A little internet searching will find several dealers who offer regular scheduled e-bike rides for their customers and they post videos of the good times their customers have. It's marketing like that which will bring the e-bike market forward.
But.....I could be wrong.
I live in a flat land, Florida. Little or no hills (except bridges) and LOTS of cars. Riding a bike on the hwy, bike lane or not, e-bike or not, is dangerous around here. While cars are not always courteous to bikers, bikers are not always courteous to cars and that is especially true when a group of bikes ride together. In urban areas where there are no bike lanes it's flat out dangerous to ride.
Florida basically follows federal guidelines with e-bike regs and that includes the 20MPH speed limit. This allows e-bikes to ride on sidewalks and bike paths without interference from the law but also limits riding on streets to 20MPH which you gotta admit is faster than 99.9 % of pedal bikes and for all practical purposes is fast enough. I don't think it's necessary to change the law to make e-bikes faster.
Having made these brash statements, back to the subject. E-bikes need a dealer network that encompasses communities much the same way new car dealers do. Selection, service and price are critical to auto sales and I believe to e-bike sales. If we had a dealer in my community that sold at least two brands of e-bikes, offered great warranties, provided great service including service calls, had a showroom with a good selection of bikes and accessories and had the patience to introduce newbies to the electric world I firmly believe that dealer would be successful. Unfortunately we don't which means every e-bike I see is either kit built or purchased from a distant dealer or online. This means I rarely see another e-bike.
What's amazing to me is that a lot of folks, including a couple of those in my Sunday Morning riding group, don't think twice about spending a couple of thousand dollars on a road bike but think my Pedago Interceptor is expensive. My previous e-bike, one I converted using a Crystalyte 1000 watt, 48V 20AH LiPo batteries on a beach bike frame, cost more. Was uglier, not waterproof (even a little) and didn't handle half as well. (it did go 32MPH though)
All this makes me think a dealer network with informed staff and the concept outlined above, is what it's going to take to bring e-bikes to mainstream. For at least fifteen years people have looked at my bikes and were amazed such a thing as an electric bike existed. Any community that has safe bike trails, sidewalks where bikes are allowed and bike lanes has great potential but in order for that potential to be realized there has to be a dealer willing to invest time and money in a storefront and inventory.
A little internet searching will find several dealers who offer regular scheduled e-bike rides for their customers and they post videos of the good times their customers have. It's marketing like that which will bring the e-bike market forward.
But.....I could be wrong.
friendly1uk
1 MW
People won't want to make a bike, any more than they want to make kit cars. They just like to buy things. UK perception towards bikes has put a slow on cheap bike sales, with the average price now around £240 ($350) though credit terms have them spending considerably more. That is all they have, which is less then the cheapest of ebay ebikes, that have zero appeal. Ebikes start around three times the price of normal bikes in this area of the market. Cost is always the first question, and it only entices thieves. Then it's how fast. As most people can cycle as fast as a 250w bike, all enthusiasm has left them at this point.
Three times the price for help on hills and with headwinds. That is all it means to fully fit people. Add a 5kg weight penalty and £200 batteries into the mix, and their off like a whippet. Fat people on the other hand, simply don't do bikes at all. It looks like someone riding a suppository. That just leave's the very lazy, the infirm and the very lazy and infirm. Most of which can't get to the shop or live on government handouts.
In the most depraved slum areas. Where Aston Martins are few. There is some interest in advancing themselves to ebike ownership. The kids there actually stop chucking bricks and watch you go by. To see where they might steal it from. I would say they are now accepted by all but the lycra's but still thought to be too expensive or of little use.
Three times the price for help on hills and with headwinds. That is all it means to fully fit people. Add a 5kg weight penalty and £200 batteries into the mix, and their off like a whippet. Fat people on the other hand, simply don't do bikes at all. It looks like someone riding a suppository. That just leave's the very lazy, the infirm and the very lazy and infirm. Most of which can't get to the shop or live on government handouts.
In the most depraved slum areas. Where Aston Martins are few. There is some interest in advancing themselves to ebike ownership. The kids there actually stop chucking bricks and watch you go by. To see where they might steal it from. I would say they are now accepted by all but the lycra's but still thought to be too expensive or of little use.
Kent
1 kW
Right now, the general motoring public views us as quaint eccentrics. Sure they'll nod their heads approvingly when chatting it up at the supermarket or wherever. But their conditioned SUV lifestyle isn't gong to change without skyrocketing gas prices.
For those of us in the western lifestyle, change comes about only through the pocketbook, unfortunately.
When I respond to questions from the public, I try to avoid the "how much" right off the bat. Because if you address that first, they will dismiss the whole concept and walk away shaking their heads.
"How much? Why, you could buy a car for that."
But what warms my heart and gives me hope is watching videos of the motoring public in the Philippines. Two young kids and the motor-in -law hanging off the back of a tiny scooter. Kids being brought up on two wheels and when they get older, that's what they'll shoot for.
Social conditioning.
For those of us in the western lifestyle, change comes about only through the pocketbook, unfortunately.
When I respond to questions from the public, I try to avoid the "how much" right off the bat. Because if you address that first, they will dismiss the whole concept and walk away shaking their heads.
"How much? Why, you could buy a car for that."
But what warms my heart and gives me hope is watching videos of the motoring public in the Philippines. Two young kids and the motor-in -law hanging off the back of a tiny scooter. Kids being brought up on two wheels and when they get older, that's what they'll shoot for.
Social conditioning.
Dauntless
100 TW
Punx0r said:If you have a reliable source that discredits them then I would be interesting in reading it!
google.com While you're at you can look for a 'Reliable Source' that backs them up. There's the extensive search. You can read the psychotic attacks one of them makes on anyone who points out their errors, the lies and all around strange behavior. Gotta love the reference to "Legitimate sounding sources.'" Happy reading on that one. It'll be an eye opener if you take it seriously. Myself I have to admit I totally loathe disinformation and those who generate.
JamStrong
1 mW
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2015
- Messages
- 19
1. At this moment, there is one profitable electric motorcycle company in the US; Zero. They look good, but up close, you can see where they cheaped out on certain parts of the bike. I wouldn't expect this from a $15,000 motorcycle. There needs to be more competition.
2. The electric motorcycle distribution network isn't there. In Los Angeles (where I live), there is one dealer that specializes in electric bikes (Hollywood Electrics). Beyond that, it's hard for someone to see and test drive a real electric motorcycle. I think once people experience an electric motorcycle, it might change their minds about it.
3. The whole charging station is a bit lame if you have a motorcycle. I should be able to plug my motorcycle in on any outlet. Thankfully, Zero has addressed this by allowing their bikes to be plugged into the wall directly. If you don't have access to an outlet, electric motorcycle are probably not for you. And electric vehicles are not for everyone.
4. Vehicle manufactures have this idea in their heads that electric vehicles have to look a certain way. If you can build a great looking motorcycle that is hard to tell its all electric by just looking at it, you might expand the market. Honda motorcycles have a very large and loyal fan base because they have made great looking motorcycles over past 50 years. If there was an electric Honda on the market, I'd buy that in a second.
5. If an E-bike was DOT approved, you could legally make them go faster and safety would not be such an issue. Yes, you would have to have it registered, but you wouldn't need to have it smogged.
6. Electric vehicles as a whole have an image problem. When people think of an electric bike, they think of a middle-aged dude with khakis shorts and sandal/socks combination. The fact is, you'll get higher torque, quieter/smoother ride, and it will only cost $1 per charge. They need to start out performing the gas powered equivalent in a few key areas. And it is getting there. People will see this and start taking E-bikes serious.
2. The electric motorcycle distribution network isn't there. In Los Angeles (where I live), there is one dealer that specializes in electric bikes (Hollywood Electrics). Beyond that, it's hard for someone to see and test drive a real electric motorcycle. I think once people experience an electric motorcycle, it might change their minds about it.
3. The whole charging station is a bit lame if you have a motorcycle. I should be able to plug my motorcycle in on any outlet. Thankfully, Zero has addressed this by allowing their bikes to be plugged into the wall directly. If you don't have access to an outlet, electric motorcycle are probably not for you. And electric vehicles are not for everyone.
4. Vehicle manufactures have this idea in their heads that electric vehicles have to look a certain way. If you can build a great looking motorcycle that is hard to tell its all electric by just looking at it, you might expand the market. Honda motorcycles have a very large and loyal fan base because they have made great looking motorcycles over past 50 years. If there was an electric Honda on the market, I'd buy that in a second.
5. If an E-bike was DOT approved, you could legally make them go faster and safety would not be such an issue. Yes, you would have to have it registered, but you wouldn't need to have it smogged.
6. Electric vehicles as a whole have an image problem. When people think of an electric bike, they think of a middle-aged dude with khakis shorts and sandal/socks combination. The fact is, you'll get higher torque, quieter/smoother ride, and it will only cost $1 per charge. They need to start out performing the gas powered equivalent in a few key areas. And it is getting there. People will see this and start taking E-bikes serious.
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