Taking Charge: Let's Develop the Products That We Want!

[www.efmotion.com]

Just to say hi to all

I'm from Spain, and recently initiated a new blog http://www.efmotion.com about electric, Fun to ride, Motion concepts, specifically motorcycles, since I think they are de ideal vehicle to explode all the EV benefits.

In my blog I'll start to make some posts in EV theory, my work on EV, business concepts, and vehicle concepts in general that respect my blog motto, i.e. electric and fun to ride.

My vision and my work is oriented to the high end motorcycles, I mean motorcycle racing and downgraded versions for street use, or the Mission Motors model. The ration of the costs and efforts to develop the mechanical part of a e-motorcycle are ridiculous infront of the costs and effort to develop the electric parts, and you have to take into account that the mechanical parts and overall layout give the final product about 50% of the fun factor. So I can't understand electric vehicles with poorly developed, or cheap parts ... maybe because I'm a mechanical engineer, and work as new motorcycle development Project Manager?

[gblast123]

Would it be possible to have a workshop/convention where people who are just starting (like me) can go to lecture, demonstrations, etc.

I find that all the information is out there but it is in bits and pieces.

I would suggest that some of the vendors , it battery, controller, motor hub mfg. etc. can also sell their wares, etc.

The format would be much like the experimental airplane community.. they have two big events every year.. Osh Kosh and Sun N Fun.

Everyone can show off their bike builds, etc.

I have been looking for something like that, but have not been able to find such an event.

David

[Kingfish]

What you ask for is a classic User Group scenario

The formula goes like this:

• Find one or more willing local/regional sponsors to back promotion which will not be difficult in an expanding market.
• Gather like-minds that are close enough for local gather.
• Agree to form a Not-For-Profit Organization.
• Draft By-Laws.
• Recruit members.
• Register NFP with legal authorities; in the United States this will be with the Secretary of State of your local State.
• Hold monthly meetings.
• At these meetings organize speakers from both professional and amateur walks of experience.
• Helpful, though not required, create a virtual presence online for paperless dissemination of information.
• Organize gathering, events, and competitions.
• Affiliate bonding with other local and regional groups.
• Form a National/International presence.
• Now you can begin to change the laws.

Need help? KF

[gblast123]

Well, it seems a daunting task... but so is getting a good BMS...

First, is there any such things that have been organized in the past?

What can i do to make this thing happen? I don't have much experience but it seems that there are a lot of people in the same boat.... I think.

Do the people at ES want to sponsor or help organize this for the Spring? I figure that for the northern crowd, Late Feb, March would be a great time to have this.

Any suggestions people?

[Kingfish]

Mmm, I don’t consider the task daunting at all, but then I have organized and managed many startups and events on a local, regional, and national stage. Regardless of the subject, promotion pretty much follows a given predictable pattern.

The questions I have for you begin with:

• Are you talking about a national event mixing amateur & professional EV peoples ala conference?
• How long is the imagined event?
• What are the topics of discussion?

My Point:

• Scope out your wish list: What is it you wish to accomplish; what are the goals?
• Identify your target audience.
• Identify where your event will be, how much it will cost, and create a budget for promotion, production, and follow-up.
• Locate/source your sponsors and nail them down for commitment.

Caveats:
It greatly helps if you have a fan-base; a bunch of groupies willing to forfeit personal time to make a go of it for the greater good. NFP events are the easiest in my mind because you spend all you receive and generally everyone gets a healthy dose of Dr. Feel-Good at the end.

So let’s take this in steps…

Proto Local User Group
Send out notification to peoples within 50-100 miles that you are going to meet at XYZ place on such date and time with the agenda of 1-2-3 items. XYZ place is a sponsor willing to share their space for one-time promotion 2-3 hours in length. Provide low-budget nibbles, juice, coffee, water so nervous can settle down. Keep your talking points simple and direct. Canned well-rehearsed slideshows, interactive pictograms, and in situ presentations of mods are generally crowd-pleasing and go over well – though should be related to a primary overarching topic of the meeting. Each presentation should be short and direct: 25-35 minutes. Leave 10-15 minutes for Q&A from a panel of experts. Hand out literature and a survey that can be filled out on the spot or mailed in: Feedback is essential. Bottom line is you want these folks to come back and eventually contribute to your fledgling organization. In one evening you can bang out two or three compelling presentations.

Saturday Grand Meet
Send out notification to peoples within 200 miles. Now you can have two groups giving presentations morning and afternoon, canvasing six topics, while at the same time exposing the curious public to local users EVs – like a motorcycle gallery. Again we start with sponsorship, maybe have a registration or entry fee for upgraded food, or an onsite food vendor. If you hold it at a park under a big tent it’ll need a local permit and insurance, or if you’re lucky the event is in a sponsor’s parking lot. This gets my mind set on balloons, banners, promotional spots on public radio – heck if you were really serious and played up the Green card you could get the Mayor and City Council involved.

Conclusion:
Strike while the anvil is hot and EV is in the news. Evangelize your local denizens with compelling presentations to kick-start the community into thinking and accepting EVs as (for example) good for the environment, smart healthy modes of transport, common-place, and easy to maintain.

Personally, I think this is the YEAR to get these things going and NOW is the time to start planning for Spring/Summer events. Believe me: Time flies! A month from now you’ll be saying “I wish I would have started planning earlier”. My answer is: Why put off till tomorrow what you can accomplish today?

The reality is – if you’ve never done this before, January is too late to plan for Spring events. Figure out what you want to accomplish, where you want to do it, and with whom you wish to partner with.

Excited for you & everyone else, KF

[spkpn]

A cool thing would be to somewhen organise a big DIY EV comunity meeting/convention/conference, where people can show their builds and those of us that have something to tell can give talks/workshops etc... this would also give that part of the industry that wants to work with us diyers the oportunity to show their stuff and intentions... Such an event would (if properly set up) also get quite some media coverage I think, which would probably help us to cut some better deals with manufacturers of batteries aand other stuff.
However, I know from organizing conferences and meetings in academia how much of an effort and how much money it takes to implement such a thing...Still, maybe one day we will manage.

edit: I should read all posts in a thread before posting myself..

[e-bike-is-fun]

At what point of humans on Earth not controlled by monies (trade by token) of the time.?
You control money, you control all.
Ideas good & not so. So what.
Garden of 'Eden' was passed on, to us.
Take charge within your rheum, stand firm, be good, and pronounce such.
Good luck.

[ElliottE]

Hello everyone,

Well, the title of this thread says exactly what got me going in the first place...

I had one of those Iacocca "E-bikes" back in the mid-90's when I lived in a flat area, and I loved it, used it every day. Then I moved to mountain country, and that puppy ended up rusting in the garage because it couldn't climb very well. About a year ago I decided that I really wanted a new e-bike, then determined that there wasn't anything on the market that I really wanted to buy.

So here I am, looking to learn what I can from the community here, in hopes that I can put together a design that can not only be something I'd want to buy, but something others will want to buy as well.

This should be a fun ride, in more ways than one...

[Zenid]

I left out an obvious catagory: Accessories. Things like the Cycle Analyst,
Eagletree Microprocessor eLogger, displays, led's, etc.

One thing I would like to see - and which I actually approached the CellLog manufacturers about - is a 24s CellLog or similar device. As it is, I'm having to make do with improvised affairs like this:
http://zenid10.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/c7b-n-1600x1200.jpg

Something that could be dash-mounted would be nice. To the best if my knowledge, things like this just don't exist at the moment. If I've missed someone who does make displays of that sort then I'd love to hear about it.

[arkmundi]

This group is composed of people from many walks of life, backgrounds, education and experience who share a common bond: We believe that electric vehicles are the best solution to many of the problems we face in the world today. Regardless of personal politics, agendas or motivations, I think it's safe to say that we all believe EV's are the future of transportation.

Agreed that the need is vast and there's all the expertise here on this forum.

To that end, it's in our own best interest as a group to decide what works, what doesn't, what can be improved upon and how, and what's needed that doesn't currently exist.

There will be a diversity of opinion. Getting one product to market should be goal, so a "one size fits all" approach of best components & methodolgy, with latter product diversification and stratification.

Within this group resides experts in every field required to advance the research and development of the products we will use every day, and make them safe and reliable. I'm going to name some names, and if I leave you out, please don't be upset, jump in to your favorite topic(s) and get involved. Who knows, we may even pull in some lurkers

I'm no lurker but seriously interested. Most great products start in someone's garage or basement. Think Apple Computer, which this week became the most valuable company in history, exceeding Exxon/Mobil, Microsoft, IBM and so many others. One guy, in a basement with his friends!

Let's start with batteries. I know that much has already been discussed on this topic, and the others to follow. What I want to do with the EV Business page is to refine what's been said to it's essence, and have it be presented in a marketable format that is mutually beneficial to those wanting to get involved in EV's as a business. An EV Bible, if you will. I've asked Doctorbass if he would be willing to put together a manual on building A123 battery packs, BMS's and chargers. He said he would. (You're still OK with that, right Doc?) Ypedal has vast experince in other formats, (as his bank account shows) and we also have input from representatives of other commercial products, such as Sam from Yesa and Joshk who sells Valence. Take the ball and run with it.

I'm close to completing my manual using the A123 AMP20 prismatic pouch cells and Agniusm's excellent build kit. Those are sine-quo-non now.

Controllers: Messrs Fechter and Safe immediately come to mind, with Bobmcree and Doc et al, welcome. Some major headway in product development, design and improvement has already been posted. If you would, please start with the current state-of-the-art controller and pursue the development of a modular design that would adapt to the different requirements of the users. Maybe even a basic kit that could be built by newbies like me. You might also include plug / regen braking in this topic.

My company design recommendation is to think of this as a far reaching cottage industry. Components being manufactured in many differenct places and assembleages in those some places. A broad network of folks working & profiting together. Product diversification will happen naturally, in non-hierachical manner. We have to get away from the practice of bloated CEO compensation and top-down styles. Think employee-owned share ownership plans and what-not.

Motors: Here we're at the mercy of the manufacturers. Hubmotors are mostly all Asia based. From what I've been able to gather from the posts, they will build to spec, so let's determine who offers the best products, who's willing to work with us, and who will actually deliver the goods. Knoxie and Xyster, help us out, You guys make great test pilots. You two, and maybe Recumbent can also offer your input on chain drives and motors.

Heinzmann, from Germany.

E-bike Frames: This one's wide open. Suspended, rigid, mountain bike, cruiser, chopper, recumbent, and Beagles scooter, there's something for everyone to get in on. I also want to use this topic to continue the "Perfect E-bike Frame" discussion in relation to them all. Let's come up with something built around the drive, be it hubmotor or chain, that will set standards for a new industry: Ours. I've even seen Safe and TD actually agree on some issues regarding suspension.

Really good design work, then sub it out to one the domestic aerospace engineering companies because they already have the metalurgy, composite, molding and manufacturing know-how perfected.

I know that I've been largely cyclo-centric here, but I want to include the Auto crowd as well. Most of the technology translates to both markets, and when cross-over applies, let's use it to our mutual advantage. Communication between disciplines can yield new products and ideas, so let's start talking.

Perhaps, perhaps not. The automobile manufacturers are already well positioned to capture the market. I believe the market here is for what are classified as "light electric vehicles" (LEV's).

There you have it: my Manifesto so-to-speak. I hope it becomes a mutually instructional and inspiring discussion for all involved, and I look forward to being a part of it. Don

Count me in, please! FYI, my assiduous R&D work on a newbie e-cycle and battery build is for the sake of New Economy new employment in my own locale. I intend on following through with a solar pedicab design and launch, because its an untapped market where I am. We're all set with local manufacturing capacity and ready to move.