New electric mountain bike frame by Phasor Cycles

[miro13car]

there is problem here.
If you built prototype why do not post pictures of prototype , why AutoCAD dreawings??????

[flyinmonkie]

there is problem here.
If you built prototype why do not post pictures of prototype , why AutoCAD dreawings??????

Having followed the build thread for the prototype of this bike, I can tell you the prototype has a significantly different frame. The CAD drawings are of the frame that will be made for sale. Having seen what these guys can do, I am sure they will produce a run of these bikes. I hope they can make enough to make it viable if not a bit a of profit.

Check this thread for the prototype

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=24253

Clay

[Drunkskunk]

I followed the other thread and was impressed. That bike was awesome, but it's not a style I would want. It looked too much like a motorcycle. Hyena's revision of it is a bike I would buy. I want a bike to look like a bike.

[Philistine]

If you guys could show an actual physical prototype I reckon that would have a huge impact on sales. Presumably you should make a prototype in any event to prove that you can do it within cost specs, but I think if people could see the real world example it would make a big difference.

[GCinDC]

If you guys could show an actual physical prototype....

Prototype 1 was carbon fiber... Did you happen to see read the first post, click on any of the links?

cd6b6e7e3b0b4970a41517728cac09e5.1600x1200.JPG (205.01 KiB) Viewed 1067 times

3f55a78b381b4a77ac782a7c2a6451d9.jpg (230.41 KiB) Viewed 1067 times

[SamTexas]

Well we finally have a price for you guys, it will be $1450, or $1300 for ES members...

Fair price I think, especially when compared to the Stealth Bomber. I hope you'll sell a lot of them.

[Philistine]

Prototype 1 was carbon fiber... Did you happen to see read the first post, click on any of the links?

Yes I saw that link and I had read that thread at the time, but that frame is a monocoque carbon frame, it is totally different to the proposed frame, and so what I am saying is I would be interested in seeing photos of a physical prototype of the proposed frame.

[danimal]

Yes I saw that link and I had read that thread at the time, but that frame is a monocoque carbon frame, it is totally different to the proposed frame, and so what I am saying is I would be interested in seeing photos of a physical prototype of the proposed frame.

Philistine,

We are currently racing to get the first production frame made. We have the Jig about 80% done and we have all the materials ordered. We will be sharing pictures and more details with the ES forum once we get the first production frame done. And like all good products we plan on doing a fair amount of testing before delivering the first frame. That is one of the reasons our proposed availability for the frames is late 2011 / early 2012 as we said in the first posting.


These are all the components minus batteries we will be populating the first frame with for testing:

[Philistine]

Awesome. I was extremely impressed by what you guys achieved on the monocoque bike, I am sure it will be impressive.

Really look forward to seeing it put together, I will probably start justifying buying one to myself if you guys do as good a job on your previous effort.

[Spacey]

Just to clarify...what would you get frame wise for the money? Front shocks included or just frame and swinging arm? I'm just looking into the feasibility of a certain project over here in Europe.

[danimal]

Just to clarify...what would you get frame wise for the money? Front shocks included or just frame and swinging arm? I'm just looking into the feasibility of a certain project over here in Europe.

The "kit" will just come with the frame, swingarm and associated hardware for the pivot, and panels. The shocks and other components are up to you. PM me with the specifics of your build and we can let you know if certain components will be compatible. The frame will accept most any front/rear shock so you can really make whatever type of ride you would like.

The components we chose are for an extreme example of what can be possible.

[Willow]

I want one, I need one. Please put me on the list.

[Drunkskunk]

Danimal, Any rough idea when you will have these in production? And do you have a finalized design yet?
Also, will you offer them without the swing arm? Or build a custom swing arm? The wheel I have in mind won't fit a standard swing arm

I'm at the point in my build where I need a frame, but the Motor is delayed a while, So I have some time to wait.

[billsy]

Guys I'm loving this frame. I have been tinkering with a similar design in Catia for a while now. I'm trying to squeeze 72v of Headway cells into mine but might have to switch battery and buy one of your frames instead. Nice work fellas

Have you investigated shipping costs yet? I'm in the UK. I'd be happy to test one for ya

Keep it up guys

[deVries]

The frame is constructed of TIG welded chromoly that has been precision waterjet-cut, making a capable light weight and versatile frame. It has been designed to hold the batteries low and centralized.

1) Please explain why you switched from light weight carbon fiber composite to heavy Crmoly?

2) Did the carbon fiber prototype have any issues in the design, construction, or durability in field testing?

3) What is the total weight difference between these two bikes when using same weight components & parts using Crmoly vs Carbon Fiber?

Look forward to the testing & final design/weight before I can commit.

Thanks!

[Alan B]

They already answered 1 and 2 earlier. Cost and effort too high with CF at this time for their setup.

Question 3 is the more interesting one. Hopefully they have a prototype soon to answer it.

[deVries]

The frame is constructed of TIG welded chromoly that has been precision waterjet-cut, making a capable light weight and versatile frame. It has been designed to hold the batteries low and centralized.

1) Please explain why you switched from light weight carbon fiber composite to heavy Crmoly?

2) Did the carbon fiber prototype have any issues in the design, construction, or durability in field testing to decide not to use carbon fiber or some other composite materials?

3) What is the total weight difference between these two bikes when using same weight components & parts using Crmoly vs Carbon Fiber?

Look forward to the testing & final design/weight before I can commit.

Thanks!

Question 3 is the more interesting one. Hopefully they have a prototype soon to answer it.

I agree that question 3 is important, but neither danimal or dpearce gave answers to 1 & 2 that I can find in this thread or elsewhere.

I hope for specific answers to all 3 questions in this thread from dpearce and/or danimal.

[dpearce]

Danimal, Any rough idea when you will have these in production? And do you have a finalized design yet?
Also, will you offer them without the swing arm? Or build a custom swing arm? The wheel I have in mind won't fit a standard swing arm

We are shooting to be production ready by Jan. - Feb 2012, pending field testing. This means we plan to start building them as they are ordered around this time.

Have you investigated shipping costs yet?

We will be using UPS to ship, you can get an estimate from their shipping calculator, coming from zip 90278. The package will be approximately 35 lbs, that is a liberal estimation.

1) Please explain why you switched from light weight carbon fiber composite to heavy Crmoly?

2) Did the carbon fiber prototype have any issues in the design, construction, or durability in field testing?

3) What is the total weight difference between these two bikes when using same weight components & parts using Crmoly vs Carbon Fiber?

1) The main reasons we switched from Carbon Fiber to Chromoly, as mentioned by Alan B are cost and labor. Expensive material, expensive and time consuming to manufacture. Lots of one off parts. Harder to repair. More complicated to scale up production. Relative to working with steel, it's just kind of a PITA in my opinion. We see the DIY market wanting something cheaper, and easier to customize (weld on) even if it is at the expense of weight.

2) Issues in the design, not really except a clearance issue with the rear tire / rear shock that luckily was an easy fix. The construction went smoothly, albeit time consuming and messy. As for durability in testing, There was minor surface cracking around one of the swingarm pivot mounts in the frame, but it is still strong and structurally sound, nothing that would make me hold back on anything for fear that it would break. The carbon fiber is very strong, but one good tumble into some rocks could destroy the frame, and it wouldn't be easy to repair. The geometry has been revised, to give more leg extension for pedaling, a lower seat height, and a more slack head tube angle. We destroyed some rims jumping out of a 6 set of stairs, went through a one way bearing from the older generation BMC motors, broke off the derailer. Those are the only issues we have had with the bike so far, and it has taken some beatings, including tumbling down a steep hill for about 100 feet (luckily I didn't go with it haha). One of the dropouts in the aluminum swingarm are getting a little thrashed, since after welding the derailer mount back on the aluminum is back to soft 'O' condition in that area from the heat of welding and not re-heat treating.

3) The total weight of the CF frame was 9.0lbs, and the swingarm was around 3lbs I think so about 14lbs alltogether. The Chromoly frame is expected to be around 16-20lbs with the swingarm. However it is designed to use mountain bike suspension, which all together is about 18lbs lighter than the heavy motorcycle suspension used before. The Carbon Fiber Prototype was 90lbs with a 72V, 10A*hr battery, and BMC motor. Using the same battery / motor in the new model would end up around (90 + 7 - 18)lbs = ~79 lbs, but since we are using more batteries in this test model it will probably end up around 90lbs.

We are getting very close to building this first frame out of the new jig, we hope to have some pictures of a physical frame for you guys soon here..

[chroot]

Make sense, Hope I have enough money by time your products release to public and I would like get one for myself. Hope it able let me run 100v 20Ah or 30Ah if it permit room hold the LiPo batteries.

Looking forward hear the test pending. Don't forget take some video and We would love see it.

[deVries]

Thanks for the very detailed answers to my questions 1, 2, 3 above. Excellent response & info.

However it is designed to use mountain bike suspension, which all together is about 18lbs lighter than the heavy motorcycle suspension used before.

By doing this you seem to come to about the same weight as the Carbon Fiber frame that has heavier motorcycle parts.

1) Will the durability still be there using Mountain Bike components vs Motorcycle grade components? Any downsides to doing this where there might be some limitations that the motorcycle components could handle but the mountain bike components will limit or prevent? Higher cost for mountain bike parts vs motorcycle?

2) Any Pros/Cons or trade-offs worth mentioning beyond the weight savings by using mountain bike parts vs the motorcycle ones? Will you be heat treating the finished CrMoly frames after welding for "stress relief" too?

3) Are you doing the actual manufacturing yourselves, or are you contracting this out to a fabricator?

I think this is an excellent opportunity to fill a real need for DIY eBike builders, so I wish you the best in actually completing many, many frames & go on to producing beyond the ES hobby level into a real business venture.

Again, thanks for your detailed explanations. If your CrMoly prototype proves out to meet your expectations & it's well documented here on ES, then I think many of us will want to order this including myself. I really want to see what results you get with the prototype before I can commit to ordering, so I hope you succeed in the meantime.

[danimal]

well get exited... we sure are! The first frame is coming out of the jig soon. We received the laser cut 4130 frame panels earlier this week and have begun the first production frame.

We plan on testing this frame to it's limits and path-finding the integration of batteries, electronics, and various other things. Once we are satisfied we will begin production of more frames that will be available for sale or custom builds.

Below are some pictures:



laser cut panels


swingarm jig and laser cut panels (sorry blurry)


frame tack welded in jig


frame welding nearing completion


small shop (sorry messy)

[Philistine]

I think there must be a rock in my pocket....

That is looking awesome.

I wonder if I can justify a third ebike to my wife....

[motorino magnet]

"Give her what she wants and she will give you what you want".

Thought you knew that already to get the first two.

Cheers-working on mine tonight

[GCinDC]

wow. looks awesome! nice work. i was wondering how you were going to get those curves...

are you tempted to add any internal braces, esp near steer tube and shock mounts? have you modelled the stresses it'll take?

what do you expect the weight will be at this point?

[Deutch420]

Lookin good. Keep it up!