Vaporware and failed EV companies

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csm
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Re: Vaporware and failed EV companies

Post by csm » May 15, 2012 4:07 am

oatnet wrote:
Toshi wrote:Image

Vectrix. Current status: Bankrupt in 2009 after booking more expenses per unit sold than revenues, then reborn in 2010 under new ownership? Or is it stillborn? Their press page has nothing since 2011...
Vectrix is actively selling their new lithium model, and a new smaller model I think is on the streets.
I did like thier variable regenerative braking throttle (and reverse drive??). It was one of the most innovative things about thier bike. I would like to see someone create something like this for ebikes, especially now since more and more ebikes have more advanced controllers which can run in revers mode too. and have regenerative braking capabilities.

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Re: Vaporware and failed EV companies

Post by csm » May 15, 2012 4:12 am

......
Last edited by csm on May 15, 2012 9:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Vaporware and failed EV companies

Post by csm » May 15, 2012 4:18 am

flathill wrote:2001 Xootr eX3
This thing was bad ass back in da day
20 pounds
brushless
made in USA
Image
Image
I like your thread here. I have some to add to the Vaporware. Here is a video I found for the Xootr eX3

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Re: Vaporware and failed EV companies

Post by Green Machine » May 15, 2012 4:32 am

No one mentioned tidal force yet? Back in 2003 tidal force threw 30 million dollars into trying to build the perfect ebike.

They were run at one point by a retired military general who promised to get them military contracts.

At one point the ebike was tested by the military in afghanistan....FAIL...

So they tried to drum up dealers here in the US, but pissed off their whole dealer network when they started selling at costco (same mistake zap made).

Costco didnt sell many tidal forces and the few that they did sale had a high return rate.

Tidal force hung up its hat and gave up. $30 million wasted. http://www.electricbike.com/tidal-force/
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Re: Vaporware and failed EV companies

Post by Toshi » May 15, 2012 6:34 am

csm wrote:
oatnet wrote:
Toshi wrote:Image
I could not understand why they seem to ignore consumer requests for a stronger place (rack?) to strapping a bag behind the rider, or for mounting saddle bags. This bike become highly unpractical if it does not have a way to carry cargo. That plastic thing behind the seat that the rear light and turn signals is attached to can literally be bent down by a force of probably 2 pounds of pressure. most every bicycle i have ever had had a rack that could hold more weight. It is attractive though.
I reckon that they see their competitors as the Ducati Monster and Triumph Street Triple, motorcycles that similarly lack storage options, rather than more practical, plebeian workhorses such as my Kawasaki Versys (with its 46L top case).

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Re: Vaporware and failed EV companies

Post by csm » May 22, 2012 12:55 am

Sinclair C5 (cost 399 british pounds).


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Re: Vaporware and failed EV companies

Post by Toshi » May 23, 2012 7:45 pm

Barefoot Motors Model One Electric Utility Vehicle (aka, "ATV")

Image

Current status: Bankrupt and out of production.

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Re: Vaporware and failed EV companies

Post by Lessss » May 23, 2012 10:21 pm

So the question becomes why were they all vapourware?
Lies from the start?
over priced?
no demand?
etc?
Give me nuclear batteries I say!! Ripped off by Joshua Goldberg to the tune of almost $900 re headway groupbuy for batteries, no $ no batteries
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Re: Vaporware and failed EV companies

Post by fizzit » May 23, 2012 10:33 pm

Lessss wrote:So the question becomes why were they all vapourware?
Lies from the start?
over priced?
no demand?
etc?
Seems like it's because EV's can sound really great in a press release/marketing, but when it comes to designing and selling them it gets hard because they present engineering issues that are unique from any other type of product, and they almost always end up being more expensive and less powerful/rangeful than potential customers expect them to be. So I believe it's all 3 of the things that you said.
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Re: Vaporware and failed EV companies

Post by Lessss » May 24, 2012 11:51 am

Are you sure it isn't startups running into legislated roadblocks like requirements for millions in crash testing?
Give me nuclear batteries I say!! Ripped off by Joshua Goldberg to the tune of almost $900 re headway groupbuy for batteries, no $ no batteries
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Re: Vaporware and failed EV companies

Post by Dauntless » May 25, 2012 7:47 pm

Yeah, pretty sure. No reason to expect that it IS some sort of legislative roadblock.

Take the Aptera, for example. If it wasn't so crappy, they could have brought it to market. But who would be fook enough to invest in a car they would lose control of driving in a straight line? What a joke for them to show up at the 'X-Prize' and be unable to change lanes. CHANGE LANES. Simply being electric does not make the immense shortcomings excuseable. Oh, being 3 wheeled DID get it out of all that crash testing.

As Fizzit says, it sure SOUNDS good, but when you can't back up the claims, or as with the Aptera, you can't actually go anywhere with it, becomging vapourwaruee is the best thing for everyone.
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Re: Vaporware and failed EV companies

Post by Jason27 » May 26, 2012 12:12 am

dude where's your source on the changing lanes thing with the aptera?
I highly doubt they would try to bring the car out that cannot change lanes.
My ebike:
Diamondback with WE 800 watt hub motor with AllCell 48V 20AH Lithium Manganese battery pack.

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Re: Vaporware and failed EV companies

Post by Toshi » May 26, 2012 12:18 am

Jason27 wrote:dude where's your source on the changing lanes thing with the aptera?
I highly doubt they would try to bring the car out that cannot change lanes.
It was all over the news, in as much as anything from the X Prize was newsworthy:

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=c ... 80&bih=911

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Re: Vaporware and failed EV companies

Post by Dauntless » May 26, 2012 2:02 am

Image
Jason27 wrote:dude where's your source on the changing lanes thing with the aptera?
Image
I highly doubt they would try to bring the car out that cannot change lanes.
Excuse me, where's your source on your "I highly doubt?" What in the world does you 'Highly doubt' have to do with anything in a world that is unaltered by your self indulgence? Did you even read the earlier posts in this thread where it's mentioned that they protected themselves by destroying all the original cars and didn't risk the possibility of someone getting hold of one and getting it on the rode and causing a big lawsuit? Just because you can't be bothered to keep up you're going to fire wildly with an abusive attitude?

* * * *

Sorry, it's just the intense pressure of people STILL trying to live in their fantasies is getting to me. I mean, picture 1945, a certain propaganda minister is leading the room in a game of 'Tap your feet together and repeat after me: "If you tell a lie often enough, it will be believed. . . ."' Some people you just tell the truth around them and they start. . . .

(And YES, there IS too much of it in this community.)

Image
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Re: Vaporware and failed EV companies

Post by Jason27 » May 26, 2012 6:44 am

I still don't buy it. who in their right spends millions to design an electric car that you cannot turn?

PS I did read the posts. Aptera destroyed the remaining cars because there a bankrupt company. Good luck suing a company that's bankrupt.
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Re: Vaporware and failed EV companies

Post by bigmoose » May 26, 2012 8:40 am

The Aptera lane change vids that are still out appear to be the successful lane change after they tuned the suspension. Anyone able to still find the failed lane change video?

I still think we need a "4 wheeled" motorcycle class for light vehicles. We are pushing the 3 wheeled design past limits so that we can use the accepted risk profile of a motorcycle driver in a three wheeled "car" that carries "motorcycle risk" to the end user. I say, let this be in two classes of 4 wheeled "cars" also. The Neighborhood Urban Vehicle class is too slow when limited to 35 MPH.
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Re: Vaporware and failed EV companies

Post by oatnet » May 26, 2012 11:20 am

bigmoose wrote:The Neighborhood Urban Vehicle class is too slow when limited to 35 MPH.
I agree. I am not aware of the NUV class - here in Califhorny we have NEV, which is limited to 30mph and 3000lb loaded, which is not enough to do local errands - I can't do my 3.1 mile commute to work in one because my company is located on a 45mph. I think 45mph is where it needs to be, but 1,800 lb to force them to be small. If we could build a class like that, and break our transportation perceptions into local vs highway needs, the electric car would finally have a niche to grow in. EVs would be a lot cheaper if we aren't trying to force them out of what they do well, by making them into a long-range gas-guzzler replacement.

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Re: Vaporware and failed EV companies

Post by dnmun » May 26, 2012 3:31 pm

forcing them to be electric imitations of gas guzzlers, this is the heart of the failure to adapt.

how did we get to the point where we can only ride or drive what the guvment thinks is what we should use?

not only that, the 'real world avoidance' maneuver is totally unreal.

i find that drivers do not avoid. they do not maneuver their vehicle to avoid an accident or strike an obstruction. they just drive over it. that is why they all drive the big vehicles to begin with.

for those people to be the reason we have to give up the right to ride an electric bike at normal speeds and to drive the vehicle we would like without being harassed by guvment edicts is criminal.

it is like letting the religious hate mongering fanatics determine what we can drink, smoke or have sex with have total control over our freedom of being and expression.

this is where ebikes rock, and EVs are so out there, so progressive, avante guarde as they say.

but like with any technology, it has to be supported so the education of all the new people about how batteries and motors and controllers and the individual parts all work is so important. this is where the sphere has to be. to be the 'hot rod' magazine inspiration for all the kids who will eventually 'get it', and the framework for the formation of their ideas of what can be done, either for maxo gonzo speed or ebent efficiency and velo aerodynamics.

electric, but plug in hybrids for a long time until the cost of fuel makes our current transportation system ineffective. those people on planes now i know will be on CNG diesel electric trains later, and taking their personal electric vehicle with them for local travel, and it will be an electric bike imo, or it would have to be shared EVs and ebikes with local nodes in the metropolis, like the zip car now, shared usage of the capital equipment among groups, organized and authenticated by google apps that will watch the equipment users and of course, keep track of them real time so that the risk of the closer social interaction is mitigated through the formation of this new level of community, kinda like the facebook stuff that gave us the arab spring.

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Re: Vaporware and failed EV companies

Post by Toshi » May 26, 2012 5:35 pm

I want an EV that meets modern ICE car safety standards. I don't want my wife driving around town astride a Bug-E, for instance.

(For myself I'm ok with the risk of bicycle or motorcycle commuting, though. Call me a chauvinist.)

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Re: Vaporware and failed EV companies

Post by bigmoose » May 26, 2012 6:26 pm

My NUV is your NEV! :oops: oops...
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Re: Vaporware and failed EV companies

Post by oatnet » May 26, 2012 7:43 pm

Toshi wrote:I want an EV that meets modern ICE car safety standards. I don't want my wife driving around town astride a Bug-E, for instance.

(For myself I'm ok with the risk of bicycle or motorcycle commuting, though. Call me a chauvinist.)
I know this is simply never going to happen - but if everyone was suddenly driving a Bug-E, instead of 3 ton SUV's, would you feel more comfortable about it?

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Re: Vaporware and failed EV companies

Post by Toshi » May 26, 2012 8:07 pm

oatnet wrote:
Toshi wrote:I want an EV that meets modern ICE car safety standards. I don't want my wife driving around town astride a Bug-E, for instance.

(For myself I'm ok with the risk of bicycle or motorcycle commuting, though. Call me a chauvinist.)
I know this is simply never going to happen - but if everyone was suddenly driving a Bug-E, instead of 3 ton SUV's, would you feel more comfortable about it?

-JD
Not unless buses and semis were banished, too.

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Re: Vaporware and failed EV companies

Post by fizzit » May 27, 2012 1:12 pm

Toshi wrote: Not unless buses and semis were banished, too.
Buses and semis cause very few accidents. I think if you are going to worry about safety, you should be worried about the other drivers that aren't being paid to drive, didn't get trained to drive their vehicle, and don't have their job on the line.
I also figure that there will be separate lanes for large vehicles like semis once vehicles become smaller.
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Re: Vaporware and failed EV companies

Post by Toshi » May 27, 2012 8:39 pm

Image

American Electric Kurrent NEV. Current status: My impression is that American Electric went bankrupt in 2007. Their press materials on getkurrent.com all date from then, and a dealer reputed to carry them makes no mention of them whatsoever. Furthermore, this forum post, in which the poster was selling a Kurrent, definitely refers to them in the past tense:
The third vehicle is the former American Electric Vehicle Company's "Kurrent". This vehicle is limited. There were only several hundred Kurrents manufactured by AEVCO.

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Re: Vaporware and failed EV companies

Post by Toshi » Jun 04, 2012 5:57 pm

Toshi wrote:Image

Audi A1 E-Tron. Current status: Vaporware, although an R8 E-Tron, plaything for the rich, is still reportedly undergoing testing and development.
A1 and A2 E-Tron models officially canceled: http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/News/Searc ... ctric-car2

The A3 E-Tron lives on as a test program vehicle, though? Strange.


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