Wanxiang outbids Hong Kong's Li for Fisker

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Wanxiang outbids Hong Kong's Li for Fisker -sources
BY TOM HALS
Sat Feb 15, 2014 3:05am IST

Feb 14 (Reuters) - Wanxiang Group, China's largest auto parts company, won a bankruptcy auction for the assets of Fisker Automotive, the defunct manufacturer of the Karma plug-in hybrid sports car, two sources who were briefed on the auction told Reuters.

Wanxiang outbid an affiliate of Richard Li, a Hong Kong billionaire and Fisker investor, the people said on Friday.

The sale will be presented to the U.S. Bankruptcy Court in Wilmington, Delaware on Tuesday for approval by Judge Kevin Gross.

The auction began on Wednesday and ended on Friday. The sources, who declined to be identified by name because the result is not yet public, did not disclose the value of Wanxiang's final bid. Li had presented an initial bid of around $55 million.

California-based Fisker was the brainchild of Henrik Fisker, a former BMW designer. The company's elegant cars were hobbled by cost overruns and tech glitches and in 2012 it stopped production to conserve cash.

Wanxiang has been building a U.S. manufacturing presence and last year the U.S. government cleared it to acquire the bankrupt assets of A123 Systems Inc, which made Fisker batteries.

Both Fisker and A123 were funded in part with loans from the U.S. government that were meant to foster clean-fuel technologies. Wanxiang outbid Johnson Controls Inc for A123, and the Chinese company also overcame an active lobbying effort to block it from obtaining technology developed with U.S. taxpayer money.

Fisker filed for bankruptcy in November with a plan to sell its assets to Li in return for Li forgiving a portion of the U.S. government loan he had bought. Fisker creditors opposed that plan, which would have left them with almost nothing, and instead teamed up with Wanxiang and pushed for an auction.


http://in.reuters.com/article/2014/02/14/fisker-auction-idINL2N0LJ1QX20140214
 
My guess? Henrik Fisker didn't make all equal partners. Not the best way to treat a crew. (Think "Three Musketeers".)
 
Does anyone know why they want it?

Did you guys look at the pictures of how they are built? The end result also wasn't a very efficient efficient design, and the model S shits all over it in everyway for less money, and isn't built out of parts from the 80:20 extrusions catalog.
 
hah fcuk fisker
cant stand that fcker
good for the chinese
we are chinese too
race does not exist
skin color strictly depends on distance from the sun
and the angle
beautiful orange
just like borders and money
 
liveforphysics said:
Does anyone know why they want it?

To get the source code legally. Fisker licensed a very advanced hybrid tech from Quantum Technology who supplies all sorts of military hybrids with their qdrive

The way the qdrive has been explained to me years ago is in certain modes during serial operation the controller basically shuts down (does not switch) and the generator is directly linked to the output drive motor electrically not mechanically. For years I though whatever...a slight increase in efficiency for much increased complexity

I just had the breakthrough in thinking of why this matters...stealth

When transistors switch fast they create EMI and acoustic noise which instantly reveals your location

-------------
Clandestine Extended Range Vehicle ("CERV")

Quantum was awarded a follow-on contract by the U.S. Army's Tank Automotive Research, Development and Engineering Center (TARDEC), including funding support through the Special Operations Command (SOCOM), to develop a diesel hybrid electric version of the AMV. The objective of this program is to develop a second-generation high-performance light-duty off-road hybrid electric vehicle based on the results and feedback from the U.S. Army's testing and evaluation of the Aggressor. In December 2009, this vehicle received flight certification on-board the Osprey V-22, and is currently the only hybrid drive vehicle to attain this certification.

The propulsion system for this next phase of AMV development focuses on a JP-8 fueled internal combustion engine with a series hybrid electric drive system, which provides a cost-effective, near-term solution as fuel cell technology matures. Pre-production prototypes are being developed and built for testing and evaluation by selected commands to assess mission suitability, supportability, performance objectives, and guidance on final vehicle configuration. The initial target mission would be related to special operations-type missions involving reconnaissance, surveillance, targeting, search and rescue, and also assist with field rescue operations.
 
Thanks, kedubob. Just thought I'd post this, so we have it here. These articles tend to disappear from time to time.
APN

Fisker Working On Military Special Ops Deisel/Electric Hybrid
Jon Vandervelde November 24th, 2009

November 24th, 2009 Quantum, the engineering arm of Fisker Automotive, has come up with a military vehicle it has dubbed the Clandestine Extended Range Vehicle (CREV) Diesel/Electric Hybrid. Like a smaller, more efficient Hummer, the CREV is said to be able to cover long distances very quietly, the better to sneak up on our nation's foes.
 
"I don't expect any political obstacles in this deal because it's about making passenger cars, not military equipment," said Lu, adding he has little personal relationship with Li, but respects his billionaire father.

When a money man or politician wants you to believe something usually the exact opposite is true
When a politcian who is also a money man wants you to believe something the exact opposite is ALWAYS true

Imagine if Tesla was a chinese company and a united states senator who was also a billionare decided he wanted to buy Tesla

It would be one of the biggest stories of the year

Mr. Guan Qiu Lu founded Wanxiang Group Corporation in 1969 and serves as its Chairman. Mr. Lu is the Founder of Wanxiang Qianchao Co., Ltd. and serves as its Chairman. Representative 13th, 14th Party Congress, and Representative of the 9th, 10th, 11th National People's Congress
 
Running synchronous with gen/motor isn't new or novel at all, trains have been doing it for at least many decades, along with other power transfer systems etc.

I think someone likely just thinks the chassis looks sexy and has more money than brains.
 
Yeah but can the trains seemlessly switch in an out of sync mode?
I drove a hybrid train. It had exactly 5 speeds and no in between. A lever with some notches that is all

Anyways that is only one of many technologies Quantum has

Just like A123 had a military unit so does Quantum
In fact most of Quantums work dealt with the military
At least a123 was mostly real business

Quantum works with Lockheed, NASA, Boeing, NAC Army, etc

The a123 military cells have embedded electronics inside the cell for a wireless bms
Sounds brillant
But Im sure you know how incredibly stupid this is
Take out any stealth tank, helicopter, ship, drone fleet, etc
They all use turbine hybrids

Fisker coachbuilders is part of fiskerautomotive
Fiker automotive is a joint venture between quantum and fisker coachbuilders
They didnt just buy from quantum or license quantum tech
They shared all ip when the joint venture was formed
 
"more money than brains". Hehe. Golden.
 
The Wall Street Journal reports that the Wanxiang winning bid was " 149.2 million cash and other consideration". "Both companies entered the competition committed to getting Fisker back into production".
 
Inside job
And usa citizens "pay"

Did you really think the winner was not going to be the same chinese company that bought a123?

"""""Hybrid Tech last year paid the U.S. Energy Department $25 million for the right to collect the loan. Fisker said in its bankruptcy filing that it intended to make a quick sale to Hybrid, a company led by Richard Li, the son of Hong Kong’s richest man, Li Ka-shing.

So Hybrid Tech made over 100 million on the auction since the gov gave them a sweetheart deal (an abnormally favorable contractual arrangement. It particularly applies to government officials and uses of the term involve hints at the presence of corruption.
 
It's all yours.
The company basically amounts to buying a few designs and some patents which have questionable useability.

The car was heavier than a hummer though and got the equivalent of 20mpg on gas, and 40% more energy draw per mile on electric. It was slow for a luxury car, too.
 
If there was any IP or Technology of significant value or risk to national security..especially military tech.. then this sale would never be alowed...or someone like L'Martin would have "fronted" a winning bid.
Having said that, these guys are not prone to wasting money buying worthless assets , they obviously see a way of generating money from this deal.
Lets hope its something that benefits the EV program ..and better than previous Fisker products. :lol:
 
Yah. The Bras D'Or was a complete waste of taxpayers money. Hydrofoils??? (A "change in defence priority" (from anti-submarine warfare to sovereignty protection. "Politicians" were perhaps suspected of being involved in her final demise.).
 

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Hillhater said:
If there was any IP or Technology of significant value or risk to national security..especially military tech.. then this sale would never be alowed...

man you are gullible. you really think the usa is anyless corrupt than greece? we go in debt to purchase weapon. you really think we are going to pay it back. the vampires will suck us dry and move onto the next victim

china has learned from the best. the good
ol usa

they are now beating us in natural resource aquisition simply
because
they offer higher bribes than anyone at the
moment

long term thinking

get your foot in the door
----
At one point, he said, even he was astounded at the money offered. One dealer promised him “3 million dollars or euros,” to support the purchase of antitank missiles, a figure he could not believe. But the dealer came through, putting some of it into his Swiss accounts and giving him €700,000 in cash, which he hid in the basement till he could get to the bank.

Prosecutors say the 2010 leniency laws Mr. Kantas hopes to take advantage of are giving them new leverage. But, they said, a plea bargaining system would be even better.

In all, Mr. Kantas admitted to taking bribes over 12 contracts, six with German companies, and two each with French, Swedish and Russian arms dealers. Some companies Mr. Kantas named have been convicted in other cases of bribery in the past. But others maintain that they have done nothing wrong. The makers of the tanks Greece bought, Krauss-Maffei Wegmann, say they are looking into the matter.

When investigators tallied up all the bribes Mr. Kantas admitted taking, they found he had still not accounted for all the money in his accounts.

Asked about this, Mr. Kantas said he had €2 million in bribes from his time in the military. On top of that, he told investigators, he invested well. “I will prove it to you when the statements from the banks come,” he said.

Mr. Mantzouranis says that his client, who is in jail awaiting trial, has met the criteria for leniency.

Law enforcement officials believe Mr. Kantas knows more and may have more money stashed away. “He gave us nothing that we did not know,” one investigator said. “He has to tell us about the rest.”



So Many Bribes, a Greek Official Can’t Recall Them All
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/02/08/world/europe/so-many-bribes-a-greek-official-cant-recall-all.html?referrer=
 
I largely ignored the tripe spewed in previous posts to ask whether we will be enjoying better pricing and availability of A123 batteries.

You guys think it will help us or make it more difficult?
 
Howlermonkey said:
I largely ignored the tripe spewed in previous posts to ask whether we will be enjoying better pricing and availability of A123 batteries.

You guys think it will help us or make it more difficult?

Should help in the long term. Fisker isn't expected to start building again for maybe another year, and then ramp slowly--a more intelligent strategy not allowed for by the DOE loans' timetables.

Lots of unsubstatiated anti-Chinese bile in this thread. A123's military business was excluded from the Wanxiang sale and went to a US firm called Navitas. For all I know, the same was done in the Fisker deal. Were there anything of significant importance there, it would have been done. FWIW, Wanxiang has owned US suppliers of parts for US military tanks for decades, and nobody has ever seemed to care. But when A123 goes up for sale in an election year, you can bet the fearmongers were all over that angle because they saw they could make hay of it.

I'll also go on record as saying that had JCI won A123, I think the results for EV's would have been a net setback in technology as they had virtually zero interest in high voltage anything. Further, their tactics of political- and media-manipulation (again often riddled with election-year hysteria) during the auction process were as shady as it gets, and I'm glad they lost. For my money, Wanxiang is a more honorable entity with a healthier, longer-term outlook.

I haven't seen anyone mention that Wanxiang has pledged to build in the old GM plant in Delaware as a condition of participating in the auction. If they do this in the next couple years, Fisker will likely be the first Chinese-owned OEM to produce cars in the US--no small coup.

Or maybe they just want to kill us all....yeah, that's probably it.
 
There's National Security, then there's securing the nation. I rather think keeping secrets is secondary to keeping the work and the OWNERSHIP of it here. Fisker is just another example of our government dropping a bundle on a company where it was obvious they would drop the ball, then letting ownership leave the country.

Oh and:

I would not/could not/did not buy Wanxiang.

Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh said:
That Wanxiang,
that Wanxiang.
I do not like
that Wanxiang.

I do not like them
here or there.
I do not like them
anywhere.

They can fukka goat
in their new car.
On a boat
near or far.
 
Dauntless said:
I would not/could not/did not buy Wanxiang.
Are you sure? About 1/3 of the cars on the road in the US have Wanxiang parts in them.
 
Yikes! So I did a search for Wanxiang parts on the Mustang. It was looking pretty good, until. . . .

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20111218/FREE/312189997/entr-e-to-china
 
Dauntless said:
Yikes! So I did a search for Wanxiang parts on the Mustang. It was looking pretty good, until. . . .

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20111218/FREE/312189997/entr-e-to-china

Good link. That story is exactly the kind of stuff one reads about Wanxiang over and over. Our experience with them has been similar. They're in this to learn and grow, not to control, manipulate, or consume and toss aside. Let's not forget that nobody forced the Carlyle group to sell Neapco, nor were US bidders excluded from the auctions for A123 or Fisker. The highest bidder won, which is how it's supposed to go in a free economy. People also forget that Wanxiang tried to buy A123 for $450 million before JCI decided they could get it for themselves at a fraction of that cost by whipping up political hysteria. The result? Wanxiang buys A123 anyway for only $250 million, leaving the creditors far worse off than they would have been if allowed to go through with their original deal. Brilliant move JCI, thanks for shooting us all in the foot. I find it incredible that so many look at all that and see only a Chinese villain.
 
How would you have felt about Bob Lutz (Chevy Volt) getting Fisker, as he was right there trying to do? I don't remember it exact, but the bids were about the same with specifications that meant they preferred Wanxiang. Not that Lutz is a born American, but he certainly embraces the American way. He's also very much the graybeard that gets on the board of these startups to give them credibility. Of course he might have been in the bankruptcy court rubbing them the wrong way.

Lutz would have been there not to learn, but to teach. When he controls, a la the Volt, things turn out well. Not sure what the relationship is, but Lutz is trying to put out a version of the Fisker.

As for people seeing Wanxiang as a "Villan," people don't want the Chinese running off with everything. In Italy, Ford was a villian in the early 60's, trying to buy Ferrari. Enzo Ferrari was faced with the choice of going under or going to (GASP) AMERICANS! When Fiat came through after the last minute so Ferrari could welch, he gave For the '. . . .And the HORSE you RODE IN ON!' treatment. Just a classic example of Europe getting tired of the Americans, who were nowhere near as bad as the Chinese have been of late. A Chinese company buying out yet another American business/product/development is going to be just another Chinese Villan. I mean, we'd have been happy to take up a collection at this board to buy Fisker, right guys?

One good thing coming of Ferrari backing out of the Ford deal was the Ford GT. Henry Ford II decided to get back at Ferrari by kicking his butt around where it mattered most: LE MANS. The factory racing effort won the race in 1966 (Technically my Dad's friend was the winning driver taking the checker, but they pulled a fast one just to torment the Americans and he was demoted to 2nd behind the Ford following him.) then in 1967. In 1968 the factory effort was gone, but an independent running the GT won. In 1969 the car was considered hopelessly out of date and the Porsche 917 was expected to run off with it. But at the end of the race here came Jacky Ickx, driving last years winner, passing a Porsche in the last turn. . . .

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1090515_ford-gt40-mk-i-unearthed-in-southern-california-garage

529_001.jpg
 
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