Musk vows to build cars in China

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Musk vows to build cars in China

Post by dnmun » Apr 22, 2014 9:22 am

Tesla up 1.7%; Musk vows to build cars in China
SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) -- Shares of Tesla Motors Inc. (NASDAQ:TSLA) are up 1.7% in early trading Tuesday as the company started selling its cars in China and Chief Executive Elon Musk vowed to build cars in the country in the next three to four years. Musk said the company will invest big on building a network of charging stations in the country as fast as it can to serve its Chinese customers, according to reports. Musk has said it hopes to sell about 5,000 vehicles a year in China.

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Re: Musk vows to build cars in China

Post by Dauntless » Apr 22, 2014 11:44 pm

His plant will also put out an additional 10,000 cars while it's 'Closed.' This is China, afterall.
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Re: Musk vows to build cars in China

Post by t3sla » Apr 23, 2014 12:00 am

面子工程, Smart man
Guess his smarted than the ones that came before..
Wonder if he will master 关系, not common for an engineer

Big question is will he export and where to, maybe to the EU but they would sanction his ass half way to America once Merkel got a wiff.

Second big question is the cells, you can bet they will ditch JP Panasonic for domestic market and end up with Samsung or a local (hint the guys who make apples batteries)
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Re: Musk vows to build cars in China

Post by lester12483 » May 08, 2014 7:09 pm

The cars have to made in China to avoid paying the 19% VAT tax.

Both China and Germany have a 19% VAT tax on foreign made goods. Its to protect their manufacturing industries. I wish we did that in the US.
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Re: Musk vows to build cars in China

Post by liveforphysics » May 08, 2014 8:50 pm

China = Rapidly growing luxury market.

USA = Rapidly dying economy.

Makes sense to build them where they are going to be purchased. :-)
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Re: Musk vows to build cars in China

Post by Dauntless » May 08, 2014 9:43 pm

liveforphysics wrote:China = Rapidly growing luxury market.

USA = Rapidly dying economy.

Makes sense to build them where they are going to be purchased. :-)
The question to be answered is can he sell enough there? Their stock is spiraling from the bad earnings reports on U.S. sales.
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Re: Musk vows to build cars in China

Post by Ykick » May 08, 2014 9:54 pm

liveforphysics wrote:China = Rapidly growing luxury market.

USA = Rapidly dying economy.

Makes sense to build them where they are going to be purchased. :-)
USA has fallen and will probably never get back up.

It almost as if we as a country choose to support regulation over innovation. The only thriving industries left appears to be the one(s) where we lock-up our citizens in steel cages or send them to die and suffer for petroleum interests. All this while the industrial food complex and agri-corporations poison us in their attempts to "engineer" nature.
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Re: Musk vows to build cars in China

Post by t3sla » May 09, 2014 2:06 am

Dauntless wrote:
liveforphysics wrote:China = Rapidly growing luxury market.

USA = Rapidly dying economy.

Makes sense to build them where they are going to be purchased. :-)
The question to be answered is can he sell enough there? Their stock is spiraling from the bad earnings reports on U.S. sales.
Question is will they introduce an L series.
Half of the early adopters will never get behind the wheel :lol:
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Re: Musk vows to build cars in China

Post by liveforphysics » May 09, 2014 4:55 am

All it takes to know that Tesla is going to make it as a company is to drive the model S P85. It makes all other driving experiences before it seem best described as 'doing-it-wrong'.

China is so loaded with brand new Audi A8's and 7-series BMWs and flagship model Mercedes. It won't be possible to make Tesla's fast enough to satisfy the market the moment people get driving experience exposure to them in China.
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Re: Musk vows to build cars in China

Post by gogo » May 09, 2014 9:16 am

Buick is bigger in China than anywhere else. Its been obvious to me for years that the less regulated Chinese market will be the driver for electric cars and everywhere else will be beneficiaries.

Musk followed the Buick path. Make a Western brand and carry it over into the borrowed-brand Chinese market for the slaughter. Marketing is at least as important as product anymore, and Musk is doing both well.
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Re: Musk vows to build cars in Chin

Post by o00scorpion00o » May 09, 2014 9:49 am

lester12483 wrote:The cars have to made in China to avoid paying the 19% VAT tax.

Both China and Germany have a 19% VAT tax on foreign made goods. Its to protect their manufacturing industries. I wish we did that in the US.
I think you're confusing vat with something else.

Everything you buy in the E.U is subject to v.a.t no matter if it's made in the E.Uor U.S. Each country in the E.U has different rates of v.a.t.

A lot of manufacturing may have left the u.s but on the other hand buying cars costs substantially less there than in the E.U along with most other things.
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Re: Musk vows to build cars in China

Post by cal3thousand » May 09, 2014 1:38 pm

liveforphysics wrote:China = Rapidly growing luxury market.

USA = Rapidly dying economy.

Makes sense to build them where they are going to be purchased. :-)
Yup... and their vehicle market has just surpassed the US in the number of new cars sold a year ago or something.
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Re: Musk vows to build cars in China

Post by t3sla » May 09, 2014 11:44 pm

liveforphysics wrote:All it takes to know that Tesla is going to make it as a company is to drive the model S P85. It makes all other driving experiences before it seem best described as 'doing-it-wrong'.

China is so loaded with brand new Audi A8's and 7-series BMWs and flagship model Mercedes. It won't be possible to make Tesla's fast enough to satisfy the market the moment people get driving experience exposure to them in China.
Electric cars have a bad rep after the whole BYD debacle
But Chinese consumers gobble and pedestal american products, and they are very keen on Elon (lot of love on the micro-blogs, which helps greatly)

It comes down to Elon Musk (?) vs Warren Buffet (BYD) for EV market.
I assume BYD will remain the lower cost domestic alternative and Tesla will go for a luxury market.

The question is who does Elon partner with, his success depends on a strong relationship with a mainland company.
My best guess is FAW, but he would be cautious after the IP issue they have had with VW.
I think hill buck the curve and produce in the North.
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Re: Musk vows to build cars in China

Post by Hillhater » May 12, 2014 10:09 pm

lester12483 wrote:The cars have to made in China to avoid paying the 19% VAT tax.

Both China and Germany have a 19% VAT tax on foreign made goods. .
China has a 17% VAT rate on most goods sold, either imported or locally made, including cars.
There is NO import duty on US made cars sold in China.
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Re: Musk vows to build cars in China

Post by dnmun » May 12, 2014 10:59 pm

after just a short period of time, i realize the future of the electric car is not gonna be the big luxo versions that early adopters will support here, but the little cars for the little guys, especially as china builds out the electric infrastructure and provides incentives such as license plates for people who adopt it.

that is where the mass market will be. as imported fuel to china increases the cost to their economy then they will use the power coming from the 34 nuclear plants they are building.

i think that little travelog by the the chinese hub motor company is a sign of how they are already marketing the electric motor scooter/motorbike now and as the uses of small electric car, or van hybrids will expand a lot.

i think that is where elon could actually be destined. the roadster was just the result of his artistic interpretation of what the market here will support, but there i think the people's car, a little electric beetle car, an everyman's car in a world of $14/liter fuel.

it really looks like there will be at least 10 feet of sea level rise, it is now inevitable. much of the chinese economy is at sea level. air pollution is a major problem. the guvment there is gonna be a strong supporter and if he can be in at the bottom with the name, the brand, that new china progressive cachet it will make his brand a major player in the future. that is what he is thinking. imo

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Re: Musk vows to build cars in China

Post by liveforphysics » May 12, 2014 11:04 pm

Just riding my bike from the hotel to the battery factory this morning I was passed by a dozen Porsche Cayman Turbo's, Porsche Cayenne Turbo's, and various Bently's here and there.

At home in Santa Cruz I'm passed regularly by Tesla model S', and which are not only cheaper, but so drastically better to drive that I don't see how they will even be able to make them fast enough to satisfy this exploding luxury market demand.

I think it's smart of Musk to focus on China simply because if a country chooses to continuously borrow money to engage in perpetual war-mongering, it's fate is already sealed, and it won't be a luxury market for long.
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Re: Musk vows to build cars in China

Post by Doctorbass » May 12, 2014 11:34 pm

liveforphysics wrote:
At home in Santa Cruz I'm passed regularly by Tesla model S', and which are not only cheaper, but so drastically better to drive that I don't see how they will even be able to make them fast enough to satisfy this exploding luxury market demand.
Luke I agree 100% with you ! sinc ei'm arrived in California it's like for every 100 car that i see, there is one Tesla ! IMPRESSIVE !!.. even in Montery, Santa Cruze, Scott Valley, san francisco, Oakland.. I see a Tesla on every 5 streets!

I have stop by at Zero today but it was a bit late in teh day.. When you will be back to santa Cruze i might return to see you but i'll have to do 500km from L-A to return back to zero and see you but i guess it worth it :wink:

Let me know when you'll be back !

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Re: Musk vows to build cars in China

Post by liveforphysics » May 13, 2014 12:02 am

Doctorbass wrote:
liveforphysics wrote:
At home in Santa Cruz I'm passed regularly by Tesla model S', and which are not only cheaper, but so drastically better to drive that I don't see how they will even be able to make them fast enough to satisfy this exploding luxury market demand.
Luke I agree 100% with you ! sinc ei'm arrived in California it's like for every 100 car that i see, there is one Tesla ! IMPRESSIVE !!.. even in Montery, Santa Cruze, Scott Valley, san francisco, Oakland.. I see a Tesla on every 5 streets!

I have stop by at Zero today but it was a bit late in teh day.. When you will be back to santa Cruze i might return to see you but i'll have to do 500km from L-A to return back to zero and see you but i guess it worth it :wink:

Let me know when you'll be back !

pm me or email me or call me.

Doc
I'm pretty sure my flight back to the states lands Thursday, but that assumes I get all my work done quickly enough to not need to push the return dates out, because I've still got a stop in Beijing and Shanghai both before my flight back to the Bay.

I'm stoaked you're enjoying all the Teslas!!! It's like the average family cars are leafs and Prius, and the whole luxury market has converted to Tesla Model S'. For damn good reason too, you only need to drive one for like 1 minute and you understand why it makes every other car you've driven before it feel like driving a steamy feces pile.

What you see in the bay is what the inevitable future of cars will be. I so pity all the companies wasting there time and money on ICE dinosaur shit right now, because it's already obsolete technology.
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Re: Musk vows to build cars in China

Post by Dauntless » May 13, 2014 1:09 am

BYD Scandal? Lightweight accounting issues? Or a battery fire? (Keep in mind this thread is about a car company with more fires in far fewer cars.) I'm not sure Warren Buffets current investment in BYD, but he picked up 9.9% in 2008 at $8/share and it's selling close to $40/share today.

They're supposedly going to get here in 2015, I'd say BYD is in great shape.

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Re: Musk vows to build cars in China

Post by LockH » Jun 20, 2017 6:37 pm

Tesla Said Close to Agreeing on Plan for China Production:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... tion-plant

Includes:
The agreement with the city of Shanghai would allow Tesla to build facilities in its Lingang development zone and could come as soon as this week, said the people, who asked not to be identified because the negotiations are private. Details are being finalized and the timing of the announcement could change. Tesla would need to set up a joint venture with at least one local partner under existing rules and it isn’t immediately clear who that would be.
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Re: Musk vows to build cars in China

Post by spinningmagnets » Jun 20, 2017 6:44 pm

The question to be answered is can he sell enough there? Their stock is spiraling from the bad earnings reports on U.S. sales
The Hong Kong and Shanghai regions have a LOT of millionaires, and all of them seem to want to have the latest "prestige" item.

http://www.scmp.com/article/1594596/hon ... 50-million

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Re: Musk vows to build cars in China

Post by Dauntless » Jun 20, 2017 7:35 pm

If it took more than 3 years to get "Close," how much longer to actually close the deal?
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Re: Musk vows to build cars in China

Post by Hillhater » Jun 20, 2017 11:00 pm

The agreement with the city of Shanghai would allow Tesla to build facilities in its Lingang development zone and could come as soon as this week, said the people, who asked not to be identified because the negotiations are private.
dont you just love the respect for privacy of the negotiations.....well, at least for the name of the leaker ! :lol:
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Re: Musk vows to build cars in China

Post by lester12483 » Jun 30, 2017 9:29 pm

Musk has no choice but to build in China due to the protectionist trade policies and import tariffs the Chinese government slaps on US companies. China rips us off on trade big time !
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