Crystalyte Controllers - Repair and Modification information

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fechter
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Re: Crystalyte Controllers - Repair and Modification information

Post by fechter » Sep 10, 2008 8:21 am

Right, there will be one of those too, but the FET gate drivers, PWM chip and commutator all run on 14v. 12v would be fine. In the normal application, there is a linear regulator to drop the battery voltage down to 14v, then the 7805 drops it down to 5v for the throttle and and some of the voltage references.
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Re: Re:

Post by ejonesss » Sep 18, 2008 9:06 am

looking at the picture i could not find the diode you are talking about.

can i just connect pin 2 to ground (- terminal of battery)?
fechter wrote:
ejonesss wrote:
The7 wrote:The original 48V IS controller has an LVC at 29V.

The 33k and the R6(5.1k) will be removed to de-activate the LVC so that the controller will work from 24V battery to 48V battery for my AL1020 ebike.
i was wondering can the lvc be bypassed all together to allow 12 volt operation or even use of ni cads (witch has no problems with over discharging in fact requires complete discharging to prevent memory) just by jumping a wire from the bat+ to the resistor/diode junction? (basically shorting out both resistors)?
Yikes! don't do that.

If you want to disable the LVC, you could disconnect either the diode or disconnect R6, whichever is easier.

12v might be pushing it since the voltage regulator is trying to make about 14v and needs a little more than that for voltage drop. It might work however. For 12v only, you could possibly bypass the voltage regulator.
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Re: Re:

Post by ejonesss » Sep 18, 2008 9:06 am

looking at the picture i could not find the diode you are talking about.

can i just connect pin 2 to ground (- terminal of battery)?
fechter wrote:
ejonesss wrote:
The7 wrote:The original 48V IS controller has an LVC at 29V.

The 33k and the R6(5.1k) will be removed to de-activate the LVC so that the controller will work from 24V battery to 48V battery for my AL1020 ebike.
i was wondering can the lvc be bypassed all together to allow 12 volt operation or even use of ni cads (witch has no problems with over discharging in fact requires complete discharging to prevent memory) just by jumping a wire from the bat+ to the resistor/diode junction? (basically shorting out both resistors)?
Yikes! don't do that.

If you want to disable the LVC, you could disconnect either the diode or disconnect R6, whichever is easier.

12v might be pushing it since the voltage regulator is trying to make about 14v and needs a little more than that for voltage drop. It might work however. For 12v only, you could possibly bypass the voltage regulator.
stuff for Even Newer 4 to 24-cell Battery Management System (BMS)
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Re: Re:

Post by fechter » Sep 18, 2008 9:23 am

ejonesss wrote:looking at the picture i could not find the diode you are talking about.

can i just connect pin 2 to ground (- terminal of battery)?
No, that will disable the current limiter too.

I think the diode is on the bottom or something. Just remove R6.
Brushless Controller disable LVC.jpg
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Re: Crystalyte Controllers - Repair and Modification information

Post by ejonesss » Sep 18, 2008 11:24 am

what about applying the 29 volt lvc hack to the 300k resistor (looks like 1 volt per k of resistance so in theory it shourl be 9 or 10 volts )


the thing is the controller is still under warranty until november (witch fall will kick in and the weather will be too cold to ride).

if i can just jumper a resistor i can make a jumper on 2 alligator clips that i can clip onto the resistor and once the tests are done i can remove the clips and electricrider.com should not be able to detect tampering if anything goes wrong.

i did apply the abs wire for the regen so i can try out the regen braking and i simply took a piece of wire and poked it into the abs hole and did not solder it so if the controller fails requiring warranty work i can just pull the wire out and electricrider should not void the warranty.

at $250 a piece i would like to not have to pay a $75 diagnostic fee+ any repairs.

i want to find out how low i can take the voltage and still have hill climbing power because with lifepo4 batteries being so expensive i maybe able to trade off voltage for more amp hours.
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Re: Crystalyte Controllers - Repair and Modification information

Post by fechter » Sep 18, 2008 2:34 pm

ejonesss wrote:what about applying the 29 volt lvc hack to the 300k resistor (looks like 1 volt per k of resistance so in theory it shourl be 9 or 10 volts )

Yep, that should work.
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Re: Crystalyte Controllers - Repair and Modification information

Post by ejonesss » Sep 18, 2008 2:56 pm

fechter wrote:
ejonesss wrote:what about applying the 29 volt lvc hack to the 300k resistor (looks like 1 volt per k of resistance so in theory it shourl be 9 or 10 volts )

Yep, that should work.

i just opened up the controller and i just realized it is version 2 looks like the one

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... &start=210

and

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/downlo ... p?id=11553

if the picture does not load then copy and paste to view it

witch means the chip is surface mount and the resistors are not along the edge of the board making warranty voidless work more difficult so i guess i will have to bite the proverbial bullet and hope electric rider does not actually open up the controllers or it does not fail requiring repair.
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Re: Crystalyte Controllers - Repair and Modification information

Post by ejonesss » Sep 18, 2008 6:27 pm

a final update:

it turns out that disabling or lowering the lvc to allow running on 24 volts or even 12 is not going to work.

you lose torque and speed on the lower voltages. so for me at least i will have to put out the $700+ for the 48v 20ah lifepo4 battery.

however there may be still a good reason to lower the lvc would be if you want to get started in electric biking and the dealer does not have a specific controller and you are forced to have to buy a 7248 controller for example but you dont want 6 batteries you can lower or disable the lvc and run it from 48.
stuff for Even Newer 4 to 24-cell Battery Management System (BMS)
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Re: Crystalyte Controllers - Repair and Modification information

Post by rkosiorek » Oct 19, 2008 7:53 pm

there is a separate thread for the V2 controller. it uses a switching regulator to drop the battery voltage down to 15V to run the FETs and drivers.

this regulator is made from discrete components and the schematic for it is on page 1 of the V2 controller thread.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... t=0#p57595

just for a lark i hooked it up to a lab supply and scope. i found that the 15V switching regulator would stop working at around 16-17V so the lower limit of this controller is 17V if this regulator circuit remains. if you do want to use it at 12V this regulator would have to be bypassed. the question remains how llow a voltage will the FETs and drivers switch at. remember that a 12V nominal battery will sag to less than 9V under heavy load. will the controller still work there? i have some doubts and reservations.

The LVC circuit is about halfway down page 2.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =15#p58887

if you want to lower the LVC down to 17V just change R15 to 3.9K

hope this helps.
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Re: Crystalyte Controllers - Repair and Modification information

Post by rkosiorek » Oct 21, 2008 2:26 pm

back on page 1 fechter posted a circuit to allow you to adjust the current limit between 20% and 10% of the upper limit set by the shunt circuit.

i put one together and put it into a plastic box with a clip to mount it on the handle bar. i put the contol pot on the rear panel. on the front i have a NC pushbutton switch. the switch is just wired in series with the wiper. so normaly the wiper would be connected through a 150K series resistor to pin 1 of the PWM chip, just like in the schematic. so normaly the current limit is set by the control knob. when i push the buton however the control is disconnected and the full power set by the shunt is available.

works sort of like a TURBO switch whan i need full power for a few seconds. having it mounted on the handlebar within reach of my thumb just makes it so conveneint.
Attachments
image001.jpg
Rear Panel
image001.jpg (18.15 KiB) Viewed 3238 times
image002.jpg
Front Panel
image002.jpg (15.44 KiB) Viewed 3239 times
image003.jpg
Handle Bar Mount (removed from a cheap bell i got at the dollar store)
image003.jpg (19.63 KiB) Viewed 3227 times
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Re: Crystalyte Controllers - Repair and Modification information

Post by marty » Dec 09, 2008 9:40 am

Question about heat? Got Crystalyte 36V 35A Start Immediate Analog Controller. Using 48V battery. Took it out of case. See Fechter's picture.
Img_0754.jpg
controller and case
Img_0754.jpg (59.09 KiB) Viewed 3301 times
Note the white thermal joint compound between aluminum block and aluminum case. Been testing with bike mounted in stand. Do not notice controller getting hot or warm. Plan on putting controller in new water proof box. Do I need to worry about heat? Should aluminum block be mounted tight to new aluminum case with thermal joint compound? Or can I use a plastic case and not worry about heat?
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Re: Crystalyte Controllers - Repair and Modification information

Post by fechter » Dec 09, 2008 9:54 am

On a stand, the motor does not draw enough current to make much heat. On the road is another story. The heat is significant and needs to go somewhere.

An aluminum box would be ideal. Another approach would be a plastic box with a large square hole cut in one side where you can mount an aluminum plate. The plate can be sealed to the box around the edge to make it waterproof, but have the aluminum exposed to the air for cooling. Attach the controller block to the inside of the plate. If you attached some cooling fins, size of the plate could be reduced. The block itself could be used for the plate if you can get all the heat sink goop off good enough for glue to stick to it and you plug all the holes with silicone.
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Re: Crystalyte Controllers - Repair and Modification information

Post by marty » Dec 09, 2008 11:02 am

Thanks Fechter,
The new water proof controller box will be aluminum. Thinking about a air vent so it will dry out if water does gets in.
Image

Image
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Re: Crystalyte Controllers - Repair and Modification informa

Post by Ham549 » May 09, 2012 9:43 pm

I am wondering if any problem would arise from additional resistance added to the power switch on the controller, I want to use the power from the switch circulate to cut in a relay or transistor to supply power to my DC DC converter. That way power will only flow to my converter when the controller is turned on. Can this be done?

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Re: Crystalyte Controllers - Repair and Modification informa

Post by fechter » May 10, 2012 8:39 am

Ham549 wrote:I am wondering if any problem would arise from additional resistance added to the power switch on the controller, I want to use the power from the switch circulate to cut in a relay or transistor to supply power to my DC DC converter. That way power will only flow to my converter when the controller is turned on. Can this be done?
I don't see why not. The power from the switch line goes to a linear voltage regulator, so any voltage drop will be compensated for. The only possible issue would be if the dc-dc draws so much that you get a significant drop that triggers the low voltage cutoff prematurely.
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Re:

Post by fractal » Jun 18, 2012 2:36 pm

fechter wrote:Here's an easy mod that improves the low speed throttle response.
The throttle output is a nominal 1 volt at zero throttle and 4 volts at full throttle. The controller, however, does not begin to produce output until the throttle voltage reaches 1.4v or so. This makes it necessary to move the throttle almost half way before the motor starts, and makes the throttle extremely sensitive in the remaining travel.

Most hall throttles have a non-linear output curve that is more gradual at the low end. This is supposed to make the response more manageable, but since the controller has such a high starting threshold, the gradual part doesn't get used.

To correct this, you can install a trimmer pot in series with the negative power lead (black wire) of the throttle. I used a 200 ohm, 20 turn pot.

With the wheel off the ground, the pot is adjusted until the motor just starts to move, then backed off a turn or so to make sure the motor stops.

With my throttle, the resistance at the proper adjustment was around 100 ohms.

Here's a picutre of mine. Note: I'm using non-standard color coded wires.
this is something I would to do on my bike. Could this work on a brand new e-bikes.ca infineon controller??? I'm asking because this post was made 5 years ago. Are today's controllers pretty much the same? Thanks for any help!!!
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Re: Re:

Post by fechter » Jun 21, 2012 8:22 am

fractal wrote: this is something I would to do on my bike. Could this work on a brand new e-bikes.ca infineon controller??? I'm asking because this post was made 5 years ago. Are today's controllers pretty much the same? Thanks for any help!!!
Yes, the same situation still applies with most controllers.
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