The Zivan NG1 revealed

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Patrick
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Re: The Zivan NG1 revealed

Post by Patrick » Jan 29, 2009 1:38 pm

Nope, I don't think that will work. The upper voltage is set by by the transformer installed for the nominal voltage. You can probably increase the voltage by 10% or a bit more, but you cannot take a 24 volt unit and crank it up to 80 volts. You can however, turn one down to any voltage you like (assuming you have the range in the control pots), but you won't recover the amperage of the lower voltage units.

In other words, there are models for each major voltage (24, 48, 72 and 96 I think), and you need to keep mostly to those voltages. The charge curve is micro controlled, and adjustable within the limits of the V and I pots.
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Re: The Zivan NG1 revealed

Post by GGoodrum » Jan 29, 2009 3:24 pm

Patrick, what ever happened to the firmware upgrade for a LiFePO4-based profile?

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Re: The Zivan NG1 revealed

Post by flashedarling » Jan 29, 2009 5:36 pm

Ahh I think I've got it now. I'll get a 72v NG1 if I can find one. The only problem being the charging curve. How much does Zivan charge for a IUa curve chip? I'm assuming that you can order one and install it yourself. I'm interested in what you've found out about re-chipping.

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Re: The Zivan NG1 revealed

Post by Patrick » Feb 02, 2009 3:36 pm

Well, I dropped the ball on that re-chip process. I did talk to them late last year, saying I had several (yours among them, Gary) that I'd like to get re-programmed. The answer? "Sure, send them all in and we'll take care of it". Naturally, I didn't have them all, and I didn't want to send any in. I did send an email detailing the specifics, but never got an answer back. I myself I have a couple of Ni-Zn profiles, which are stupid enough I could slide by with manual tweaking and Garys' board. But now I need to order 3 of the BMS boards, so it's back to the drawing board!

Gary - I'm pretty sure I have the details we talked about, but maybe we could revisit them in light of the most recent design. I guess there are two approaches - use the intelligence in the Zivan to approximate a curve, and use the BMS to do all the heavy lifting.

Zivan approach: This will be an IUa curve.
1st stage: CC to 3.5 v/cell. So I1 = max (13-18 amps, depending), and U1 = 56 v (for a 16 cell pack). Timeout of 5 hours?
2nd stage: CV to 3.7 v/cell. So U2 = 59.2 v (for 16 cell pack). Should there be current limiting in this stage? Timeout of 2 hours?
a (auto-shutoff) stage: when current falls below 200 mA. This should work either with the BMS board, or without the BMS shutoff.

I'd like this to work with the most minimal BMS - what do you think?

BMS approach: This will use the Zivan as a straight current limited supply, and be targeted solely for the intelligent BMS board. It must be shown that the FET current limiting won't interfere with the Zivan measurements. It will need to shut off without error when the BMS trips and eliminates input current.

If it is possible (i.e., I can work it out with Zivan) I would think the most useful product for them to sell/stock would be a 72 volt unit, with the voltage setpoints selectable thought the external switch, so that a single supply could work for 16 - 20 cell (or perhaps a bit more) packs. It would limit max current to about 12 amps.

I'm looking for input here (from all who are interested), so feel free to post or send me a PM.

Thanks!
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Re: The Zivan NG1 revealed

Post by GGoodrum » Feb 02, 2009 4:47 pm

The 1st stage is fine, full current until the pack gets to 3.5V x # of cells, but I think the 2nd stage should be to throttle the current back to about 5A, or so, until 3.7V x # of cells is reached, and then CV mode from that point (3rd stage?). Richard might need to chime in here, but I think that since the BMS board will start to take over, and throttle the current once the shunt thresholds are starting to be met, the Zivan should not terminate on the current dropping below a certain threshold (200mA, in your example...), but should probably just timeout after say, 3 hours. This should cover all but the most severely out-of-balance conditions, even for big Ah packs. If the charger times out before the BMS turns the green LED on full, the charger can just be recycled and it will get back to the same point pretty quick.

For the BMS control option, we could maybe use the same active low signal that we use to trip the SCR cutting off the charge current, to pull a line low at the charger. If it can read something like this, it can use it to stop the charge process. Otherwise, trying to do it just monitoring the current might be toughter. I suppose it could look for the current to go to zero for some period of time, like 5 seconds, or so.

I like the idea of having one 72V version, with selectable output settings, even with a 12A limit. Many people, myself included, have multiple setups with different pack voltages. BTW, this would work with 16-24 cells. Maybe they could do two versions, the 72V that can work from 48-72V, and a second one that could cover 24-48V, maybe with a bit higher current (15-18A?).

-- Gary

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Re: The Zivan NG1 revealed

Post by Doctorbass » Dec 16, 2009 8:22 pm

Does someone already measured the minimal detection current that is required to let the zivan charger detect the presence of the battery?

I just worry about the moment where the BMS (tppacks) will begin to cut when the first cell will reach 3.7V...

I know that if the Zivan(NG3) charger dont detect any voltage at output, it just cut... so that mean once the mosfet of the BMS become open ( throteling the first cell to go HVC) it could just cut and never let the rest of the cell under 3.7V to charge fully and be balanced..

If i could know the minimal detection current that allow the charger to "see" a voltage present at output, I could just put a resistor across the mosfet drain and source to make some minimal current between the cell and charger eventhough the mosfet is open or close.

Any idea?
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