Controller for 52-60V system

I am building a couple of new battery packs. Since my cells are coming in 4S1P units, I am thinking of going with a 16S (rather than 14S) battery for ease of construction.

This would mean that I will have 12S, 14S, and 16S packs. Is there a controller that can work with all these voltages? Ideally, I would like one that is programmable so that I can adjust max phase current and LVC. I have read that the KT controllers with the custom firmware may be a good option, but I have no idea where to look for them or what models to look for.

Also, is there an efficiency hit when using a controller that has a higher voltage limit?

I have one of the 1000W generic DD hub motors. But may get a 1500W leaf motor in the future.

Any tips would be very appreciated.

Thank you.

im a fan of the phaserunner, im running it at 13s/14s/17s, waterproof, programmable. its not Bluetooth but you can program it with the the phone app. im running it upto 2400 watts. grin technologies. just plug the wires in and it self learns, no playing with the phase connections. if you blow a hall it switchs automatically to sensorless.

That $300 price tag is a bit too high for me right now.

transposon said:

That $300 price tag is a bit too high for me right now.

Click to expand...

Well, that's without the display.

There's a Grin 40A programmable sine wave controller that I was considering when I was shopping for a controller with a flexible voltage input.
https://www.ebikes.ca/shop/electric-bicycle-parts/controllers/c7240-l10.html

I ended up with a Powervelocity controller, which may also be an option. All three are designed to work with the CA3. The Powervelocity has a nice bluetooth app that can be used for the display, but won't support PAS without the CA3. The Grin has variable regen, which may be a consideration.

transposon said:

That $300 price tag is a bit too high for me right now.

Click to expand...

If you think you may go for higher power and performance levels in the future, then money spent on a quality controller is well worth the investment. At modest power levels throttle control and being able to tune various settings doesn't matter all that much, but as you increase torque and power it becomes essential. Plus you want to be able to adjust (at a bare minimum) the Low Voltage Cutoff (LVC) of a controller is you plan to run various voltages. Variable regen braking is a great feature to look for in a controller as well.

transposon said:

That $300 price tag is a bit too high for me right now.

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at 15s/63v you start blowing controllers. the phaserunner is pricey but its cheaper than all the blown controllers in my parts box. its also tiny tiny tiny you can mount it anywhere in any position, its never let me down

if you take an empty roll of toilet paper, its the same size as the cardboard tube. I limped around on a 20 amp controller for a month til I had enough cash for a phaserunner.

Just wish something good as PhaseRunner (true FOC with regen) existed that could handle

23S and peak battery 150A

john61ct said:

Just wish something good as PhaseRunner (true FOC with regen) existed that could handle

23S and peak battery 150A

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There should be an ideal controller feature thread for manufacturers to look at. It doesn't exist yet.

john61ct said:

Just wish something good as PhaseRunner (true FOC with regen) existed that could handle

23S and peak battery 150A

Click to expand...

while i don't know of a generic off the shelf ebike controller that does those, you can build one of the lebowski controller brains onto one of the various powerstages designed around that, for which there are various threads on the forum (look for lebowski in title or first post of threads).

there may also be vesc-based diy versions as well. (serious focer, etc)

there are probably also oem controllers like sevcon,asi (which phaserunner is based on) etc., that do it, at the power levels you're after.

Not (yet) a component level DIYer

and it seems Sevcon and ASI/BAC require trained professionals to program?

Now if someone based in NA would sell customized kits, known-good powerful motor paired with a pre-tuned controller capable of getting the most out of it. . .

I guess QS direct comes close, but I don't think they offer any true FOC controllers, and there's in effect no warranty if you have to pay for shipping to China and back.

E-HP said:

Well, that's without the display.

There's a Grin 40A programmable sine wave controller that I was considering when I was shopping for a controller with a flexible voltage input.
https://www.ebikes.ca/shop/electric-bicycle-parts/controllers/c7240-l10.html

I ended up with a Powervelocity controller, which may also be an option. All three are designed to work with the CA3. The Powervelocity has a nice bluetooth app that can be used for the display, but won't support PAS without the CA3. The Grin has variable regen, which may be a consideration.

Click to expand...

Yeah, $300 + ~$130 for a CA seems kind of ridiculous. Is the CA the only display that would work with the phaserunner or the grinfinions?

This sounds reasonable and it should be compatible with the opensource KT software I think:
https://bmsbattery.com/home/1027-s12snn-72v-1000watts-40amps-torque-simulation-sine-wave-controller.html

Although, I may eventually want more than 40A.

Edit - It looks like this controller has a minimum voltage of 60V. I wonder if the opensource software can change that.

transposon said:

Yeah, $300 + ~$130 for a CA seems kind of ridiculous. Is the CA the only display that would work with the phaserunner or the grinfinions?

This sounds reasonable and it should be compatible with the opensource KT software I think:
https://bmsbattery.com/home/1027-s12snn-72v-1000watts-40amps-torque-simulation-sine-wave-controller.html

Although, I may eventually want more than 40A.

Click to expand...

It's steep, but not ridiculous, depending on how you approach your hobbies. I know that once I've decided to pursue a new hobby, I'm the type that likes to build and upgrade, over time, rather than buy off the shelf. I started out cheap until I knew I liked ebikes, but after that, I always keep my upgrade path in mind, since I don't have room for several bikes, but know over time I'd like to try/experiment with different voltages, etc. The cost of that flexibility is high, compared to making one decision and sticking to it, but I do know the features I want and ones I don't want to lose. If you buy the CA3 and Phaserunner, but don't use the versatility they provide, that's a different story, but on the other hand, you're also paying for quality and support (here and from the factory), over XYZ no-name components.

i like KT controllers, so I may flash mine with the open source software, just to play with the features (play with the variable regen, to see if it's something I have to have ). If the open source allows you to set LVC for other voltage inputs, that may be the way to go.

the ca is not a display like the kt / bafang / etc controllers use. it does not communicate with teh controller like those do.

the phaserunner has an android app that lets you use your android device as a display in that way, however. see the pr thread in the sale section or the pr info page on http://ebikes.ca for details.


the ca is, itself, a computer that universally works with any dc electric system to monitor power usage (v, a, ah, wh, w, etc) and speed if it's a moving system. all controllers are compatible with it, whether they have a ca connector or not. the wiring is simply different if it does or doesn't have one.

the v3 version can also interpret cadence and torque pas sensors, throttle, temperature, current, voltage, switches, analog controls, etc., via the settings the user chooses in the menus or setup software, to send a throttle signal to the controller to operate it within whatever limits have been chosen.

see the ca v3 info pages on http://ebikes.ca or the lengthy ca v3 beta thread here on es for details of operation, etc.

transposon said:

E-HP said:

Well, that's without the display.

There's a Grin 40A programmable sine wave controller that I was considering when I was shopping for a controller with a flexible voltage input.
https://www.ebikes.ca/shop/electric-bicycle-parts/controllers/c7240-l10.html

I ended up with a Powervelocity controller, which may also be an option. All three are designed to work with the CA3. The Powervelocity has a nice bluetooth app that can be used for the display, but won't support PAS without the CA3. The Grin has variable regen, which may be a consideration.

Click to expand...

Yeah, $300 + ~$130 for a CA seems kind of ridiculous. Is the CA the only display that would work with the phaserunner or the grinfinions?

This sounds reasonable and it should be compatible with the opensource KT software I think:
https://bmsbattery.com/home/1027-s12snn-72v-1000watts-40amps-torque-simulation-sine-wave-controller.html

Although, I may eventually want more than 40A.

Edit - It looks like this controller has a minimum voltage of 60V. I wonder if the opensource software can change that.

Click to expand...

at $70 id buy 2 or 3. I was following the e-hp build to see how that power velocity controller was working out. $430 usd is cheap, here in Canada its probably $700 for both.

I always get a kick out of it when americans say how expensive things are.

I took a look at the caps in my current controller. They are 63V. Is bumping up the voltage capability of the controller to 67V just a matter of replacing the caps?

goatman said:

I always get a kick out of it when americans say how expensive things are.

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Our disposable income is way lower, because we have to spend so much more on health care and education

transposon said:

I took a look at the caps in my current controller. They are 63V. Is bumping up the voltage capability of the controller to 67V just a matter of replacing the caps?

Click to expand...

no, it also depends on the fets, and the low-voltage-power-supply that turns battery voltage into 12v and 5v for the rest of the system.

running too close to the margins of components is hard on them, and risks failure at any time from voltage spikes and noise, etc.

leaving at least 10-20% overhead room is a safer way to do things.

transposon said:

I took a look at the caps in my current controller. They are 63V. Is bumping up the voltage capability of the controller to 67V just a matter of replacing the caps?

Click to expand...

ive bumped to 63v and the controller wouldn't turn on til I got the battery to 61.4v and then the display wouldn't show the voltage anymore and about a week later that controller was fried and I fried 2 more before going back to 14s which sucked after being at 15s. at 15s I wanted 16s but I went 17s instead. the reason I went to 17s is because when my battery is dead at 51volts my bike performs the same as a 13s battery fresh off the charger and its a way to get more range without adding ah.
a 13s4p, if you want more range you need 13 cells to go to 13s5p but I can add 3s or 12 cells for 16s4p. each cell has 10?wh.
so adding 13p is 130wh to the pack adding 3s is 120wh to the pack and 16s is way more fun. if youre going to mess around with batteries and motors you need a good controller

63v is also a line for chargers the 48v chargers will start blowing if they can get that high. I got a 72v charger and it can be adjusted down to 63v or upto 84v