20A Controller 150V Mod

Hello

I got around to upgrading the little 20A controller with 150V fets, these little controllers are a good Idea for a nice powerful little controller esp running at 72-100V or so as they are kind on the batteries.

I was supposed to get this done for Deecannio but didn't get it done in time, I will test it this weekend with the new batteries at 72V and report back, I used 150V fets and replaced the crappy rubber tubes with the fet mounting hardware, tested it all no leakage to the heat sink.

Popped out and connected it to the bike worked fine, will take it out tomorrow and have a play, it should pump 1500W in to the puma which should make for about 30mph and keep everything in the safe zone.

A few snaps, nice and easy to mod took about 2 hours from start to finish and cost about 20 pounds to do.

I think these make an ideal controller for the Puma at 72V.

Will do some mileage with it then get it off to Deecannio so he can have some 72V action !!

This controller should be good for 100V or maybe more?

Knoxie

Cool, I have the 20 amp controller. Mine comes with Irf3205 55 volt Fets. Is that what that one had stock? I'd like to do that mod sometime in the future if thats all it needs to go high voltage.

Nice. Can't wait to hear how it does on the Puma.

Don't forget the high voltage warning. Copy and print the picture below in a size that fits on the controller. It's more just to show off than a necessary warning.

Hello

No this one had 4710 fets 100V rated but these fets have proved a little delicate in the past, I run in the 150V ones as they have proven very reliable so far, you could put in 4110 fets as they are also a good swap.

I will let you know how it performs, its looking pretty good! may not drive the xlytes that well as they like fat amps but the Puma likes high volts with less amps, ill test it tomorrow weather permitting!!

Cheers

Knoxie

Hi Richard

I like that!! will print it off and slap it on before I give it to DC and thanks again for your excellent guide, even though I had modified 2 or 3 controllers your guide suggested things I hadnt thought of and made a massive difference, esp lining up the fets on the heatsink before you solder them down, this made the fet screws line up perfectly.

Yes I think it will be Ideal for the Puma, I am still amazed with the Puma that those 0.8mm wires pull 30-40A with only slight warming! amazing, the short length helps here.

I have both modified lipos now with 100V fets in so I have a bullet proof 72V BMS protected rig now so its all systems go, nothing should smoke now other than the tyres!! ha ha I will post a video of this little controller in action, then its over to DC for some action in the woods!

Cheers

Paul

Hey knoxie,

thats a cracking piece of work mate, nice and neat.
i was flicking from the pic of the original in my thread and this post shots and your mod is unbelievably better work quality
im hoping the weather holds up so you can get out and test it at the weekend see how she holds up, will be interesting on the lipo front too though i think as you've modded them they'll be fine (these are 2 flip tops?).
lol, fechters warning is cool, may attract some unwanted attention though
"sure, its under 200w officer" "just ignore the "death" warning, its all legit"
cant wait to give it a try when your happy see how 72v is for the first time
will keep my fingers crossed mate - but dont spare the whip now


cheers


D

Won't the rotational speed of the Puma and it's gears at 100+ volts be rather extreme? How much voltage do you think the Puma handle?

Hi Xyster, missed you nice to see your back! and hi Andy

Yeah the Puma is fine with the high rpms you just have to watch the power 35-40A at 72V is too much, 20-25A is perfect, this will perform great I think with the Puma, I can take it up to 30A or so with a simple link, however walk---run! so will test it at 20A then give it to Deecannio and get him to try it.

Yes thanks Andy, I made a tidy job of it and it didnt take long to mod, Saturday will be the day to test as Sunday and Monday are a rainy write off! I think the controller will be great, the batteries are fine now both rocking with 100V, I have found some very interesting things about those point-1 packs, Ill post another thread on them and their BMS! ha ha.

I will have you up to speed very soon!! I still love the Puma even at 37V! its an amazing town commuter, 27mph on the flat and so light and powerful, I think Mark could sell them with this controller modified to 30A 48V max or so, great great combo esp with 1 x lipo, last count I have 6 of those point-1 lipos! ha ha I did have to fix 2 of them that smoked though :lol: the great thing is none of this scares me as I know how it all works inside and out!!

Heck I even shorted my new 100V packs out straight just to test the BMS!! ha ha

Cheers, keep an eye on here as will get out tomorrow on the Puma with this little baby and do a test!

Cheers

Knoxie

hey knoxie,

looking outside this morning it looks like it's all over for us this weekend rain,rain,rain!!!
did you manage to get any testing in??
i got a ride on friday evening but nothing to tell really - just kept thinking this is ok but how good will it be at 72 lol.
Hope things went well, will check back tonight to see what happened.

Cheers mate


D

Hi M8

Yep its raining, I went out yesterday to test both the modified batteries, I want to make sure the batteries cut out on the BMS but the LV cut off on the controller kept on limiting the power too much to trip it, I got 11Ah out of it before it stopped.

So yes was up for it today, shame the weather isnt, I may still go out on it later however dry weather is better, I am pretty confident the little controller will do the business mate.

If they work ok I will recommend Mark supplies them to people who want to run 72V, esp as we may be able to tweak 25-30A out of them as well, thats more than enough for most and its enough for the puma 8)

Going to stay in and watch the GP this afternoon! I heard they are going to make GP cars hybrids as well!! should make for a very quick start off the grid!! Dya think they will be using A123s!! ha ha I have a few friends that work for Renault F1 will have to tap em up! :lol:

I will let you know if the baby controller works ok, I am sure it will its the batteries I want to test more than the controller as I think it will be fine.

Cheers

P

I can confirm 30A ' 84v is ok on my 20A controller. Strange that these much smaller units are MORE up for abuse than thier bigger cousins! Now if i could just get my hands on a PUMA I'd be able to test too!! (WHERE ARE THEY!...Mark told me beginning of last season to "wait for them, they will be worth it!" Glad I didn't wait and lose 2 years e-biking

I like it. These little 20A units seem to like punishment. I've been running mine at 30 amps for a few weeks now doing some setup testing. It doesn't even make the case warm.

Did you use 4110s, or something else? and what did you do about the caps? The ones in mine are only rated for 100v.

Hi Joz

Yeah I think they are well made controllers, better quality than the big ones which seem to be patchy to put it lightly.

Did you link the busbar to get 30A? it maybe that stock controllers can run ok at 72V I just didnt want to chance it as the other 150V controller appears to be bomb proof on 72V now, this little controller will sort DC out a treat as it will mean he can stash his other battery on the bike.

To be honest if they perform I may well modify one and put it on my bike it will mean I can ditch the tail rack, 30A is enough esp at 48V and upwards. The lack of an on/off button in a bit of a pain but one could be added in to it I reckon, it just means your connectors wear a little quicker as you connect and disconnect it.

I doubt they could be any more unreliable than the big controllers, the later batches have been so bad, it seems ones made 18 months ago are a lot more reliable? Kenny may have had a change around in the factory, something has happened to make them so bad, the off/on switches seem to break easily as well, still we are telling him all this and he does read the forums.

No chance to test this little pup today, the weather is shit and I have to carry the batteries on my back, don't like doing that in wet weather, Tuesday night is looking good, I am sure it will all be fine, I will put 100 miles on it if its still ok then it can go in the post to DC, he should have his batteries mounted by then.

Some bank holiday weekend we are having eh!

Knoxie

I was thinking of getting the 4310's fets for myself as no one seems to know where the 4110's are. One thing I don't get is all the different symbols on the part numbers such as:

IRF
IRFB

IRF4310PBF
IRF4310

I read something about the lead content but don't quite understand. All I know is there small differences in prices and who knows if there is a performance difference. Anyone?

Hi

Yes the caps are rated at 100V, they should be ok however I have thought about upping them a little, the fets are the same as the other controller mod see spec below.

FDP2532


MOSFET, N TO-220
Transistor type:MOSFET; Transistor polarity:N; Voltage, Vds max:150V; Case style:TO-220AB; Current, Id cont:79A; Current, Idm pulse:430A; Power, Pd:310W; Resistance, Rds on:14mR; Marking, SMD:FDP2532

These have been working well at 72V on the other bike, 4110s or 4310s may also work ok at 72V, I am just being a little over cautious, seems to work like a charm, these controllers can be improved upon.

Cheers

Knoxie

Yes Knox....I added wire to the buzzbar...when I first did it there was a thread on vis with pics...I think Steve Head followed me too. Can even be done in such a way as not to void warrenty (by soldering onto the back side of the board to the buzzbars lugs). Been 10 months or so, done alot of miles @ alot of volts, with no probs so far. I have a second controlloer modded too, and although its not done the miles yet, it too seems fine. Both controllers bought more than a year ago tho...its possible thart build quality has changed

Looks like the write up on teamhybrid's webpage needs a look over (particularly the bit about "reliable tried and tested controllers" )

Hi Jozzer

Right good yes glad that yours has been working ok, its the first time I have played with the little controller, DC can run 30A if he chooses to however I would be happier with just 20A for now, I will see how it performs, I can try it on the BMX to give me an idea how it will perform on DCs bike as he is running the same wheels.

Well to be fair the little 20A controllers have been reliable as far as I know and the big controllers have only been unreliable when operated above 48V so it still holds true I think, we are doing our level best to improve them and make them even more reliable at 72V.

Kenny is going to fit 4310 fets and fitting kits to all controllers for Mark, we will do 150V controllers to order and more often only on the little controllers.

What a shit day, I just got back from a trip out on my bike, it was blowing a gale and hammering it down with rain, car weather for sure!! ha ha.

Cheers

Knoxie

it was blowing a gale and hammering it down with rain, car weather for sure!! ha ha.

Click to expand...

Traitor!!!! That's velomobile weather (just don't get sideways to the wind, eh?)

This is all very interesting and only slightly over my head.
1) What are the "little" and "big" controllers?

2) If I want to run a 5304 at 72v what should I do/get?

Thanks,
Al

Nimbuzz said:

This is all very interesting and only slightly over my head.
1) What are the "little" and "big" controllers?

2) If I want to run a 5304 at 72v what should I do/get?

Thanks,
Al

Click to expand...

I'd recommend the big one unless your batteries are very small.

Big ones are 35 or 40 amps
Little ones are 20 amps.
If you have a big one, you can always turn down the amps.
At 72 volts, either of them in stock form may be unreliable and blow up.

Nimbuzz said:

This is all very interesting and only slightly over my head.
1) What are the "little" and "big" controllers?

2) If I want to run a 5304 at 72v what should I do/get?

Thanks,
Al

Click to expand...

The "little" and "big" controllers Knoxie is referring to are the Crystalyte 36-72v/20A (little) and 36-72v/35A(big) controllers. Per Knoxie's suggestions if you plan on running any of the X5's @ 72v and up, it would be better to go with the bigger 35A controllers but fitted with better FETs such as the 4110's or 4310's or the 150V FETs the Knoxter is using (dont know mdl#). The latest batch of 35A controllers seem to have QC problems with the mounting of the FETs, you might get away with just replacing the cheapy stock mounting h/w. The reasoning for pairing them with the bigger controllers is because the X5 runs great at the higher voltages with 35A or more. On the other hand Knoxie has found the Puma to be too peppy at 72v/35A and recommends toning it down to 20-25A when running at higher voltages, should be better for the little featherweight as well.

Knoxie,
These little baby controllers with the proper mods look to be a perfect match for the Pumas. Nice work, I may pick a couple up for spares.

Yo Maytag

yeah I will see how it performs, I am not sure if the Puma really does much more above 25A at 72V than warm up, so this little controller with its built in current limit of 20A should be perfect, 25A tops is about all you need at 72V on a Puma IMHO anything more is not going to do a great deal more than warm the windings up and make things worse, every motor has its limits!

The 35A controller is ultimately more suited to more powerful motors for sure but for the Puma I think this is ideal, the Puma is a powerful motor in its own right, you may need a big fat controller with a xlyte but you just dont need it when you have gears! the Puma is an amazing motor in this respect!

Ill test it out this week when it damn stops raining! I would get electrocuted if i went out there at the moment at 72V :lol:

Cheers

Knoxie

It's getting clearer -- thanks. But I still don't understand if the "little" controller has a 20A limiter and you need "25A tops" -- isn't that a contradiction?

A

By the way, if you're wondering why people keep calling them little or big controllers, it's because the 20A controller is exactly half the size of the others, with half the FETs.

Nimbuzz said:

It's getting clearer -- thanks. But I still don't understand if the "little" controller has a 20A limiter and you need "25A tops" -- isn't that a contradiction?

A

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The '25A tops' refers to the amperage limit above which the stock FETs are likely to fail. The "little" controller comes with a 20 amp limit, but that's easily adjustable upwards by soldering wire across a standardized conductive junction used by the controller to know when the current limit has been reached. If people want to mod their 20 amp controllers for more than 25 amps, then Knoxie's saying they'll have to upgrade the stock FETs too (in addition to altering the current sensing junction).