Detecting counterfeit 4110 mosfets

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Re: Detecting counterfeit 4110 mosfets

Postby whatever » Mon Jul 05, 2010 11:47 pm

Just to continue a bit on this thread
One thing that I dont think is pointed out clearly ( unless I missed it)
is that the P after the date stamp is identifying as from the mexico plant.
Thats a very good indicator of quality if that 'P' is there ( assuming it does actually mean mexico site)
It would be good to know more about the other codes, such as lot code, and the mystery XX idents ( in red below)

irf identify 3.jpg
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Methods mentions two things:
that
Purchased direct from the factory
If methods can confirm he went to tijuana factory that would pretty much seal the "P" as indicating mexico site ( or was it via irtronix which isn't factory direct)
You can purchase the genuine fets in china also at good prices through irf china ( they get them supplied from mexico)
Another methods quote:
Turns out the TO-220 is ONLY built in Mexico - nowhere else

If that is true, then the 'P' is a very good indicator of quality.
Interestingly I"ve been testing some batches of fets which are both from the "p' factory, both irf4310 type,
with identical markings except for the "xx" mystery ident, and they show different values from a simple resistance test across the drain and source.
I suspect that even with the same factory, that depending on which line the fets are made on there are differences in quality. Purely based on these 4310 fets.
More info on the assembly lot code and xx code might be useful
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Re: Detecting counterfeit 4110 mosfets

Postby CamLight » Fri Jul 09, 2010 1:06 am

whatever wrote:Just to continue a bit on this thread
One thing that I dont think is pointed out clearly ( unless I missed it)
is that the P after the date stamp is identifying as from the mexico plant.
Thats a very good indicator of quality if that 'P' is there ( assuming it does actually mean mexico site)

Isn't that only true until the counterfeits start adding a "P"?
That is, if they haven't already and a lot of FETs we think are genuine actually aren't. :)

IIRC, the IR web site has reliability data on a lot of their FETS and I think the lot numbers are included.
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Re: Detecting counterfeit 4110 mosfets

Postby liveforphysics » Fri Jul 09, 2010 1:17 am

It always confuses me with counterfeiter's of mosfets. If they have the technology to make semiconductors, why on earth can't they load the correct graphic to etch the chip with? Seems like if I was going to copy fets, making it be worded and appear physically identical would be the most simple part of trying to copy a semiconductor. lol
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Re: Detecting counterfeit 4110 mosfets

Postby whatever » Fri Jul 09, 2010 3:46 am

as far as i'm aware, there aren't any fets cloning the irf etchings, as lforphysices says. The clones are easy to identify at this stage, if you have the correct etchings and a 'P' its mexico source ( at this stage), it is truly bizarre indeed.
The mystery 'xx' numbers, I checked a number of fets from same batch, they have all different numbers in that circle, even in same batch, I think that number may not be much use ( who knows!), it will say something particular about the fet, if anyone else can check their 'p' mexico fets, I think will find the 'xx' is not the same even within one batch.
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Re: Detecting counterfeit 4110 mosfets

Postby CamLight » Fri Jul 09, 2010 10:15 pm

I checked the IR web site and it appears that, unless Mexico is the only lead-free line for IR, that a "P" only means lead free.
http://www.irf.com/package/marking/pm_to220ab.pdf
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Re: Detecting counterfeit 4110 mosfets

Postby whatever » Sat Jul 10, 2010 10:19 am

not that "P" as in irfp4110, that means lead free, the 'p' in second line, at right hand side, it gives location of where fet was made.
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Re: Detecting counterfeit 4110 mosfets

Postby CamLight » Sat Jul 10, 2010 9:38 pm

Exactly! Check the document in the link I posted. :)
Check out the Note: "P" in assembly line position indicates "Lead - Free" text and the image in the upper right.

The "P" in the product number has nothing to do with the FET being lead free. If it has a "PBF" suffix, then it's lead free. For example "IRF1405" vs. "IRF1405PBF". Some FETs might be only available in a lead-free version and might skip the "PBF" suffix altogether, I don't know.

For the IRF1405, the difference between the IRF1405 and the IRFP1405 is the case style. The IRF is TO-220, the IRFP is TO-247.
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Re: Detecting counterfeit 4110 mosfets

Postby whatever » Mon Jul 12, 2010 2:30 am

damn, there goes that way to determine where manufactured!! bugger
that is a shame, seems is going to be very difficult ( if not impossible ) to know source just from markings, unless assembly lot code can be used somehow?
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Re: Detecting counterfeit 4110 mosfets

Postby CamLight » Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:13 am

IMHO, it's really not a problem.
You just can't trust a FET that's not from a known, reliable source...no matter what the markings. :)
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Re: Detecting counterfeit 4110 mosfets

Postby FAS » Fri Jul 16, 2010 11:48 am

Hello.
I bought these 4110s.
They are really cool. My test showed RdsOn approximately 3mOhm.
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Re: Detecting counterfeit 4110 mosfets

Postby CamLight » Fri Jul 16, 2010 9:47 pm

Hmmm, interesting...
The ebay page shows, IMHO, a genuine IRFB4110.
But based on the photo of the one on your meter, I think he sent you counterfeits.

What current were you running through the FET when you got that 3mOhm Rds-on value?
What was the temperature (roughly) of the FET?

I'm curious how your FETs compare to the genuine and counterfeits I tested (earlier in the thread) at 10A and 20A.
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Re: Detecting counterfeit 4110 mosfets

Postby whatever » Fri Jul 16, 2010 10:20 pm

FAS ( shame the video didn't have english! what language is it..russian?)
if its genuine it throws out the window everything we've learned thus far on identifying them, I would be guessing non genuine at this stage, I'll open up a genuine one and see what the insides look like and post here if I have success, maybe useful to see the insides.......no idea really
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Re: Detecting counterfeit 4110 mosfets

Postby FAS » Sat Jul 17, 2010 1:23 am

CamLight wrote:Hmmm, interesting...
The ebay page shows, IMHO, a genuine IRFB4110.
But based on the photo of the one on your meter, I think he sent you counterfeits.
What current were you running through the FET when you got that 3mOhm Rds-on value?
What was the temperature (roughly) of the FET?
I'm curious how your FETs compare to the genuine and counterfeits I tested (earlier in the thread) at 10A and 20A.


I tested the same FET that is on the attached foto.
As my video shows , I put 1.12A (from 1 li-ion cell with 3Ohm resistor) into FET and measure 3.3mV at pins close to FET body, and 4mV at end of pin (only one pin has 0.5mOm resistanse). temps around is 30°C.

I do not have another type of 4110 for tests.
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Re: Detecting counterfeit 4110 mosfets

Postby liveforphysics » Sat Jul 17, 2010 3:59 am

FAS wrote:
CamLight wrote:Hmmm, interesting...
The ebay page shows, IMHO, a genuine IRFB4110.
But based on the photo of the one on your meter, I think he sent you counterfeits.
What current were you running through the FET when you got that 3mOhm Rds-on value?
What was the temperature (roughly) of the FET?
I'm curious how your FETs compare to the genuine and counterfeits I tested (earlier in the thread) at 10A and 20A.


I tested the same FET that is on the attached foto.
As my video shows , I put 1.12A (from 1 li-ion cell with 3Ohm resistor) into FET and measure 3.3mV at pins close to FET body, and 4mV at end of pin (only one pin has 0.5mOm resistanse). temps around is 30°C.

I do not have another type of 4110 for tests.



Your picture definately shows a counterfeit FET.

You gotta pass some stronger currents through them to get some decent voltage resolution in the resistance reading.
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Re: Detecting counterfeit 4110 mosfets

Postby FAS » Sat Jul 17, 2010 2:00 pm

liveforphysics wrote:Your picture definately shows a counterfeit FET.
You gotta pass some stronger currents through them to get some decent voltage resolution in the resistance reading.

OK, I will try high current test later.
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Re: Detecting counterfeit 4110 mosfets

Postby CamLight » Sat Jul 17, 2010 3:23 pm

FAS wrote:I tested the same FET that is on the attached foto.
As my video shows , I put 1.12A (from 1 li-ion cell with 3Ohm resistor) into FET and measure 3.3mV at pins close to FET body, and 4mV at end of pin (only one pin has 0.5mOm resistanse). temps around is 30°C.

I do not have another type of 4110 for tests.

Sorry, I gave up trying to interpret the test conditions in the video as soon as I realized I couldn't speak the language. :)

As liveforphysics mentioned, you need much higher current levels to calculate the on-state resistance accurately, at least 10A IMHO.
A 20A test would be nice too.
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Re: Detecting counterfeit 4110 mosfets

Postby Gordo » Tue Nov 15, 2011 1:02 am

A little up date on identifying fake 4110. There are now several Chinese manufacturer's which make a 4110 with the little notches in the side and the molding mark in the center. Because I was searching for information, one of the companies selling on DHGate sent me an email offering 4110's with two pictures. The first picture was a bunch in a tube with "made in Mexico" stenciled on the tube. The second was of an individual 4110 which was slightly different than the ones in the tube. The molding mark is higher up on the FET and the notches in the side are slightly different. They do not appear to show any copper colour anywhere on them.
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Re: Detecting counterfeit 4110 mosfets

Postby methods » Wed Nov 16, 2011 12:30 pm

Folks... Buy your IRFB4110's from well known American companies. You should not have to pay much more than $3 each - not worth the risk and wasted time to try and save $12 by buying them from ebay or China.

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Re: Detecting counterfeit 4110 mosfets

Postby bobale » Mon Nov 21, 2011 4:40 pm

Guys, do you think this 4110 is genuine?

ImageImage

It has copper visible on the sides of the heatsink, black moulding on the back, black notch on the front of the heatsink, and writing looks as if it's genuine.
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Re: Detecting counterfeit 4110 mosfets

Postby Gordo » Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:11 pm

bobale wrote:Guys, do you think this 4110 is genuine?

ImageImage

It has copper visible on the sides of the heatsink, black moulding on the back, black notch on the front of the heatsink, and writing looks as if it's genuine.


I will go out on a limb and say no. The extra marks on the side and the molding mark being visible from the front, does not look right.
Also, look at the first post in this thread and compare.
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Re: Detecting counterfeit 4110 mosfets

Postby bobale » Mon Nov 21, 2011 8:21 pm

I'm not sure do I need better glasses, but genuine 4110 in the first post looks exactly like this one I've posted. Molding mark is also visible on the genuine one, and you mean whan by extra marks on the side?
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Re: Detecting counterfeit 4110 mosfets

Postby whatever » Mon Nov 21, 2011 9:15 pm

I put the genuine and unknown pics side by side,
only difference is in the writing style and placement, I haven't seen any clones with the black moulding before, I would think maybe genuine,
genuine has 920P and unknown 029P which might be a typo? , if its a clone its a damn good one,
testing breakdown voltage or resistance would be good tests to do

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Re: Detecting counterfeit 4110 mosfets

Postby bobale » Mon Nov 21, 2011 9:36 pm

According to this

Image

920 and 029 are production year and weeks, and P is factory code, so they were made in the same factory.

Thank you for putting them side by side for me. Aside from different font, I can't see any other difference. Also, the price is almost $4 a piece, so they are not exactly cheap.
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Re: Detecting counterfeit 4110 mosfets

Postby Gordo » Mon Nov 21, 2011 11:40 pm

Look at the boldness of the printing of the suspect fet? Look at the 411o not 0 in the typing. The 11's are smaller than the 4 and the "o" is a letter, not a zero. I just re-read the entire thread and IIRC the P DOES not mean where it was made?
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Re: Detecting counterfeit 4110 mosfets

Postby bobale » Tue Nov 22, 2011 8:04 am

Why then does it say (in the official package description) that the last letter is the factory code?
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