Keywin E-bike Lab Parameter Designer Software Manual-ver 1.2

[Kingfish]

SkyCaptain

For Reference, this is the thread that has all the current information in the Technical Reference area:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=14836

Chances are you are on a 32-bit system, but here’s how we can check:

• Go to Start|My Computer and right-mouse-click to get a popmenu and select Properties, OR…
  Start|Control Panel|System will bring up the same window.
• Look at the System Type: Does it say 32-bit or 64-bit? If it’s 64-bit then we have a little bit of extra work to do.

Next, I ask that you kindly check to see if your system is up to date. Go to: Microsoft Update
…and accept all required updates (you can ignore optional updates). You may be required to reboot. After accepting updates, check again to see if more are required. Sometimes the latest updates are blocked by earlier updates. Regardless we need to make sure your system is up to date so that we can eliminate that as an issue.

I suspect that you do not have the full Visual Basic 6.0 runtime libraries which are required for these applications. Please go to the link and complete the install. http://support.microsoft.com/kb/192461

and chances are you will need to install these too...
Microsoft Visual Basic 6.0 Common Controls

I suggest rebooting to ensure everything is installed and fresh.

Now we need to determine which type of controller you have so we know which software application to run. If you look at the top of your board with the leads heading out on the right side, in the lower left corner there is a number. If the number begins as “EB8” then you want the “Parameter Designer for Infineon”. If the number begins as “EB2” then you want to use the “Parameter Designer for 116”
Please let us know how it goes.

Similar issues were reported on this thread:
Controller mod

Best of luck, KF

[Whiplash]

Great Info here! I am going to need it I am sure! LOL!

[aaronski]

Hi Guys,

Help! I've disasembled my controller at work and now I can't get it to run!

I have an E-crazyman 72v(infineon eb212-A-3)

I followed all the instructions on this thread and got the software installed, the ocx files installed, the program running, then wired up everything but gnd.
Then plugged in GND, and it worked! it has a progress bar, then it says completed, then cycles again, completed, etc, untill I pull the power.

Now the controller doesn't do anything. can anyone tell me what the correct settings are? I used the ones in the screen cap for the program just for testing and I get nothing when I plug it all in and hit the throttle. what am I doing wrong?

[flexy]

Hi,
I have an ecrazyman EB218-AS-1. I haven't done the R12 or transistor mod, do I still need to scale the voltages for the LVC by 20% ?

[Jeremy Harris]

What voltage are you running at?

Is the controller modified in any way?

If all is standard, then the Keywin programming software will give you reasonably true values for current limit, LVC, etc.

Jeremy

[number1cruncher]

Hi,
I have an ecrazyman EB218-AS-1. I haven't done the R12 or transistor mod, do I still need to scale the voltages for the LVC by 20% ?

As Jeremy has said, if unmodded your values should be accurate. The board you have has the newer 116 chip and can handle higher regen voltages. The R12 mod was designed to trick the old 846 chipped controllers to allow regen above 60V. Also, the newest of the 116 boards now come with a smps, so the transistor mod is unnnecessary on those boards.

Have you tried programming yet?

[flexy]

Thanks guys.
I will run it at 72V as it was designed for, I have got the usb cable connecting and the software shows that it is flashing the chip. I want to test it on 60V SLAs first and don't want to risk any damage to it.

[jbond]

Can somebody throw some light on what the speed control settings in % actually mean? Here's the puzzle (for a 36v controller and a Bafang or Tongxin geared hub)
- Voltage is fixed by the battery. The FETs are just switching this. So ~36v is always presented to the motor.
- There are no frequency settings in the software. So the cycle frequency is just synced to the motor speed by the hall effect sensors or by synthesizing this for sensorless motors from the other two phases.
- The throttle feeds a variable voltage (typically 1.2v->4.4v).
- With out of the box values, In Low mode or Mid Mode, the noload rpm seems to be cut. Similarly mid-throttle seems to limit the noload rpm. Some experiments by other people seem to show a reduced duty cycle and a reduced frequency.
- People have tried 120% and even 150% (with hex-edited software). Some people think values above 100% shift the phase advance.

So the unanswered questions.
- If low mode is set to say 60%, that is 60% of what? Duty cycle? DC Current limit? Phase Current limit?
- How does the controller cut the noload frequency/rpm to 60% of the high mode, noload frequency/rpm when it doesn't know what that is?
- What do values above 100% mean? Is this the same as a 5v throttle input instead of 4.4v Does 100% mean a 100% duty cycle? In which case, how can you have a 110% duty cycle?
- What does the throttle input actually do? Does it just change the duty cycle? If that's the case, why does it apparently change the noload rpm?

I get the feeling these are probably answered somewhere in threads somewhere on ES, but I'm damned if I can find them or make sense of the answers.

[Jeremy Harris]

OK, here we go:

1. The motor voltage is NOT the same as the supply voltage and is not fixed by the battery. For a 36V system the motor can see anywhere from 0V (zero throttle) to about 36V (full throttle) depending on the pulse width modulated waveform duty cycle (the ratio of on time to off time). The FETs switch the supply and act exactly like a step-down (buck) switch mode voltage regulator. For half throttle, as an example, the FETs would have a 50% duty cycle, so the voltage to the motor would be half the supply voltage, giving half the motor full no-load speed.

2. The frequency of the PWM waveform is fixed at 15kHz for the current crop of XieChang controllers. The commutation frequency is dependent on the motor rpm and number of motor pole pairs, but will typically be in the zero to a few hundred Hz region, maybe a couple of kHz for a high rpm motor. The controller commutation frequency syncs to the motor phases using either Hall sensor feedback or zero crossing detection of the back EMF on the unpowered phases during the commutation cycle.

3. The throttle voltage directly controls the PWM duty cycle, but can be modified by the current limit circuit. This means that the throttle can command, say 50% rpm, but the motor may be running under too much load to spin up to this speed. What happens is that the excessive power demand, from supply current sensing, is fed back and the controller cuts back the duty cycle to reduce the motor current demand.

4. The speed settings (used when programmed in switch mode) are nominal percentages of the maximum allowable duty cycle, so directly control the motor maximum no-load speed. For example, if programmed to 30%, 70% and 100% the controller will only allow the motor to run up to those speeds. In effect, it's a throttle limiter, but it does have the effect of expanding the throttle mechanical range. For example, with 30% selected the full throttle travel will give 0 to 30% motor rpm, rather than 0 to 100% rpm, which can give better low speed control if required.

5. Selecting values greater than 100% doesn't change the timing as far as I have been able to tell, but does seem to affect when the controller switches to block commutation mode. Block commutation is when the PWM is disabled and the controller is only switching the phases directly at the full throttle commutation frequency.

6. By default (with no speed switch connected), the controller will run at the speed 2 setting. This has caught people out as the controllers are often supplied with speed 2 pre-programmed to less than 100%. The fix is to fit the link to select speed 3, which is usually set by default to 100%, or to re-programme the controller to whatever settings are required. Setting speed values above 100% can have some nasty effects, including significantly increasing motor no-load max rpm current and causing some motors to not run well towards the top of the speed range.

Jeremy

[jbond]

Brilliant, thanks, Jeremy.

[NRG]

Jeremy, could you expand on point 2 please. Could you clarify the 15khz PWM signal and the difference with the commutation frequency...I've measured single phase on my geared Bafang motor using the 6 fet 116 based controller and it worked out to 111 to 160hz (low and high setting). Where does the 15khz come in, thanks.

[Jeremy Harris]

Jeremy, could you expand on point 2 please. Could you clarify the 15khz PWM signal and the difference with the commutation frequency...I've measured single phase on my geared Bafang motor using the 6 fet 116 based controller and it worked out to 111 to 160hz (low and high setting). Where does the 15khz come in, thanks.

The 111 to 160 Hz that you're seeing is the commutation frequency - often referred to as the 'electrical rpm' of the controller/motor combination.

The PWM frequency is the, usually fixed, much higher frequency that the controller uses to control the voltage applied to the motor. This frequency has to be high enough to allow the motor inductance to smooth out the current and so also needs to be significantly higher than the maximum commutation frequency. A ratio of around 10:1 or so is probably about the minimum between PWM and commutation frequency; a higher PWM frequency is better for low inductance motors.

Jeremy

[NRG]

Thanks Jeremy, I' m still not sure I understand...is this fixed PWM Frequency the sampling frequency? And it has nothing to do with the duty cycle that determines motor speed and current?

[NRG]

Oh, the penny may have dropped.....

http://www.aerodesign.de/peter/2001/LRK ... L_eng.html

[Jeremy Harris]

Good find that site - it manages to say clearly with pictures what I was trying to explain (none too clearly!) with words.

It also illustrates another point I was making above about block commutation. The first set of 'scope pictures show block commutation - no PWM, just full voltage applied to each phase as required. The later 'scope pictures show PWM pretty clearly.

Jeremy

[NRG]

Jeremy I wonder if you could help.

I've been messing about with the parameters on an E-Crazyman 6-fet 116 based controller that's driving an SWXB motor.

I understand the current limit control is crude in operation, however, I'm finding the rated current limit I set in Parameter Designer is about 5amps out IE: if I set a 20amp limit the peak draw measured by my Watts Up is 25amp. I suspected the shunt may have some excess solder and indeed it did on one end, removing as much as I could trimmed about an amp of the 'overshoot'...so I'm wondering how accurate current control is with theses controllers?

Also on another note I've set the phase current at 2.3~2.5x the rated current but I'm not sure if this is 'safe' I've noticed the controller gets quite hot, much hotter than before I started messin' about with the settings...any recommendations for this setting?

Many thanks.

[Jeremy Harris]

Jeremy I wonder if you could help.

I've been messing about with the parameters on an E-Crazyman 6-fet 116 based controller that's driving an SWXB motor.

I understand the current limit control is crude in operation, however, I'm finding the rated current limit I set in Parameter Designer is about 5amps out IE: if I set a 20amp limit the peak draw measured by my Watts Up is 25amp. I suspected the shunt may have some excess solder and indeed it did on one end, removing as much as I could trimmed about an amp of the 'overshoot'...so I'm wondering how accurate current control is with theses controllers?

Also on another note I've set the phase current at 2.3~2.5x the rated current but I'm not sure if this is 'safe' I've noticed the controller gets quite hot, much hotter than before I started messin' about with the settings...any recommendations for this setting?

Many thanks.

My experience is that the current limiting accuracy (on the main, software set, current limit) isn't great. +/- 3 to 5 amps is about as good as they get. The main issue seems to be variation in resistance of the whole shunt current path, including how much solder there is on the board 0V trace. I don't really think the current limit needs to be much better than this though, as it's only intended to be a rough setting - I doubt most people would be able to tell the difference between 20A and 25A unless they were looking for it.

Setting the phase current for 2.5 times the current limit is OK, but if you are trying to pull 25A from this controller in standard form then it will get warm unless you change the FETs. As standard, they come with either 60NF06 FETs (16 mohm Rdson) or sometimes 75NF75 FETs (13 mohm Rdson). These are quite lossy devices, for example, the IRFB3077 FETs that I'm running in one of these have an Rdson of typically 2.8 mohm. This makes a big difference to how hot they get. For example, 25A through a 60NF06 FET will create around 10 watts of heat (per FET) whereas 25A through an IRFB3077 FET will create about 1.75 watts of heat. The IRFB3077 FETs are good for around 65 to 70V working voltage (they are rated at 75V max) and are a good choice for this controller. Their max current rating is 210A for the silicon, but restricted to 120A by the package. In practice I'd have no qualms at running these FETs at 50A or so in a 6 FET controller, maybe more if the use was such that the controller wasn't being held at high current for long periods of time. A 60V pack with a 50A current limit on one of these controllers fitted with these FETs would be OK for around 3kW peak power, pretty impressive for such a small unit. Change the capacitors to 100V ones (they are usually 63V) and change the FETs for IRFB4110s (100V, about 3.7 mohm Rdson) and you could probably see up to 5kW or so.

Jeremy

[NRG]

Hi Jeremy,

Many thanks for taking the time to reply. Seems I may be worrying about the current unduly... what you are saying with regard to the FETs is interesting, my particular controller is populated with IRF3205 FETs, Rdson of 8mohm I think, so with a conservative 20amps they would dissipate approx 3w and ~1w with the IRFB3077, think I'll upgrade and uprate the caps as well.

Thank you!

[only1jake]

I keep getting an error when I try programming my Lyen 12FET controller.
All I want to do is get on and change the LVC.

When I connect it like it says.
It finds the port now and no yellow mark.
I click transmit and it starts going, but when I hold down the button it says: "Run time error: 8020, Error reading comm device"
What can fix this?

I've tried everything else on all the other threads, just keep getting this.

This is using Lyens setup etc.

Thanks!!

[only1jake]

FOUND A SOLUTION: http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/cooldrives/vista-prolific-chip-driver-for-serial-adapters.zip

This works for any 64bit system.
Fixes error 8020.

Jake

[NRG]

My experience is that the current limiting accuracy (on the main, software set, current limit) isn't great. +/- 3 to 5 amps is about as good as they get. The main issue seems to be variation in resistance of the whole shunt current path, including how much solder there is on the board 0V trace. I don't really think the current limit needs to be much better than this though, as it's only intended to be a rough setting - I doubt most people would be able to tell the difference between 20A and 25A unless they were looking for it.

Setting the phase current for 2.5 times the current limit is OK, but if you are trying to pull 25A from this controller in standard form then it will get warm unless you change the FETs. As standard, they come with either 60NF06 FETs (16 mohm Rdson) or sometimes 75NF75 FETs (13 mohm Rdson). These are quite lossy devices, for example, the IRFB3077 FETs that I'm running in one of these have an Rdson of typically 2.8 mohm. This makes a big difference to how hot they get. For example, 25A through a 60NF06 FET will create around 10 watts of heat (per FET) whereas 25A through an IRFB3077 FET will create about 1.75 watts of heat. The IRFB3077 FETs are good for around 65 to 70V working voltage (they are rated at 75V max) and are a good choice for this controller. Their max current rating is 210A for the silicon, but restricted to 120A by the package. In practice I'd have no qualms at running these FETs at 50A or so in a 6 FET controller, maybe more if the use was such that the controller wasn't being held at high current for long periods of time. A 60V pack with a 50A current limit on one of these controllers fitted with these FETs would be OK for around 3kW peak power, pretty impressive for such a small unit. Change the capacitors to 100V ones (they are usually 63V) and change the FETs for IRFB4110s (100V, about 3.7 mohm Rdson) and you could probably see up to 5kW or so.

Jeremy

Hi Jeremy, many thanks again for the help. I've upgraded the controller with Panasonic NHG and IRFB3077 FETs, the FETs seem to have made a difference to the temperature as the controller is now just warm to the touch.

Another question if I may: The LVC setting in PD has gaps in it IE: the voltage selection jumps from 32.5v to 40.5v with nothing in between. I'm running 12x Turnigy cells for 44.4v and would like LVC set around 36~38.5v Is there anyway of achieving this in s/w or does the controller need modding?

[Jeremy Harris]

Hi Jeremy, many thanks again for the help. I've upgraded the controller with Panasonic NHG and IRFB3077 FETs, the FETs seem to have made a difference to the temperature as the controller is now just warm to the touch.

Another question if I may: The LVC setting in PD has gaps in it IE: the voltage selection jumps from 32.5v to 40.5v with nothing in between. I'm running 12x Turnigy cells for 44.4v and would like LVC set around 36~38.5v Is there anyway of achieving this in s/w or does the controller need modding?

It is possible to change the controller LVC by changing some resistor values on the board, but to be honest it isn't that easy (they are surface mount) and the advantage is probably small in terms of enhanced capability. I'd be inclined to leave the controller set for 40.5V with a 12S LiPo pack, but not rely on that as the sole means of protection against a low voltage event, because of the probability of the pack being unbalanced by the time it's discharged to a nominal 3.375V per cell is quite high - the pack is effectively flat when it gets to this point, with a fairly high probability that one or more cells will be lower than the safe limit (you may have, for example, 11 cells at 3.5V and one cell at 2V). If you're concerned about draining the pack that far and having some protection, then the best way to do it would be to fit a simple LVC system to the pack, that will detect a single unbalanced cell and trigger the controller ebrake cut-off. This is a pretty cheap and easy way to have some peace of mind if you have no other way of monitoring discharge. geoff57 has put together some small, cheap LiPo LVC units - see the for sale section.

Jeremy

[will_newton]

Another question if I may: The LVC setting in PD has gaps in it IE: the voltage selection jumps from 32.5v to 40.5v with nothing in between. I'm running 12x Turnigy cells for 44.4v and would like LVC set around 36~38.5v Is there anyway of achieving this in s/w or does the controller need modding?

I think Ed Lyen's version of the software has a complete selection, but you have to buy one of his controllers to get it. Easiest solution is the selectable voltage cutoff on the Cycle Analyst. The best solution is Gary Goodrum's LVC boards, which monitor each individual cell. Between the CA for the total pack and an LVC board on the balance taps, you are more than covered.

[Arlo1]

I can't get parameter design to work.
Some files wont let me extract them they just say "invalid or corupt" and the others give me a warning that just says
" Component 'ComDlg32.OCX' or one of its dependencies not correctly registered: a file is missing or invalid"

[shorza]

Can someone suggest a safe LVC for my 18s?

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the figures, but if I wanted my lvc to be 66v, I would have to program it for 55v?